Wednesday, February 4, 2009

vnr

pl/sql developer -- austin, tx Message List
Reply | Forward Message #28533 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
If any of you is looking for pl/sql developer position in Austin, please drop me an email. At least 1 year of genuine experience needed, but with 6 years pl/sql and 8 years IT in your resume. Good communication skills is a must.

Immediate interview!
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Vemana Caste Message List
Reply | Forward Message #22988 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: [www.ReddyOnline.in] Vemana Caste

In some areas, if you ask reddies, what is their caste, they say: kaapa. I am less concerned about the caste of Vemana. After all, many people in villages gloat about some reddy being a PM, a President. And these reddies may get an appointment from such a PM reddy, but hardly does the latter listen to their concerns. Appreciate Vemana for what he is: an enlightened man. Is dr. raj reddy enlightened? No. Is dr. Anji Reddy enlightened? No. It doesn't mean that a raj reddy or anji reddy can be criticized. Could these reddies wipe off tears swelling on the corners of many less-fortunate people? It could never be
possible both in theory and in practice. Can a person like Vemana qua enlightened can change the social structure in such a way that a perfect social security system can be built? Definitely. Herein lies the salient difference between reddies of today and Vemana, whether the latter is reddy or not.
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Top most firing it companies in India Message List
Reply | Forward Message #21672 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: Top most firing it companies in India

People are not happy when they don't have any jobs. They are not even happy, even when they are with their dream companies; for there are other things nagging us: that your batch mate has become a manager, making more money than you do; that your buddy is with a company like google, having gotten a good amount of options; then there are parents complaing that their friend's son is making $150k pa in america while you are making Re 100K pm in India--and you can compound this list with whatever reasons you can give for your being unhappy. In sum, and we all seems to concur, one's happiness is constrained by many things: fellow human beings, the companies, etc. Whenever you think you have caught the fruit that happiness is, such a fruit disappears from your field--sounds like a mirage. And these questions for us appears to be esoteric or exotic; but they are not. One can find happiness, which is not constrained by others: here, Indian traditions had spent their resources in transforming human experience, thus finding happiness which is not contingent on any you name it. In fact, our experience is different from sense-data, which is the input from five senses. The relationship between experience(for instance, that happiness is) and the inputs from such senses can be transformed. Even it can be found that there is no relationship between them--and this is one of insights of Buddha.


Good luck guys finding the dream jobs; in telugu, adhrishta (na dhristha, one that can't be seen), doen't even function as explanatory entity the way 'good luck' functions, yet we talk about adhrishtam, duradhristham, etc.

Apologies for digression, so dont bitch that my post is irrelevant or that the listrules don't permit my post, insofar as one cant show why it is irrelevant. And most of the debates framed on this list about (ir)relevancy [like "hey, this group is for only helping fellow reddy brothers find jobs, not for these regressive ones" like the one I am just going to post or "that I am showing off my angreji writing skills"]; so, let me say this about this kind of response, if any, I am going to get: the dispute is like de gustibus non est disputandum; in other words, we cant settle a dispute about tastes (you say, you like jaangri; and I say, I hate jaangri--there is no way to go about answering whose answer is better), unless we reformulate our complaints that can be resolved in a sound fashion.

Thanks for bearing little flame.

Best, VR.
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fonts Message List
Reply | Forward Message #20910 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Folks,

There seems to be many telugu fonts available on net. As I am planning to translate some article into telugu, I thought there may be an easier way, which I am not aware of, to type telugu using normal keyboard. But I find it rather time consuming, and it has irritated me as well. What do you guys think: Are there any easier ways, except for my writing on paper?
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Madhura got style Message List
Reply | Forward Message #19373 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: CM Son Jaganmohan Reddy(tiger) is launching TV channel..

Interesting in multiple ways! What has 'reddiness' to do with starting business? If you have money, 100 people would be waiting for you to show you ways to make more money. In one sense, my economics teacher used to say, business is being busy for profit--and he is right.

I can start non-profit, only to become a member of parliament or of legislature. After all, we all need some 'kind' of recognition!

The kind of 'explanations' that members allude to is not sound: precisely because, in one description, some things are similar; in other description, they are dissimilar.

Whenever one tries to posit 'reddiness' to explain every success, or starting, of business, such explanations are not sound. Of course, this is all due to stale merchandise that having a degree in engineering improves analytical skills, as Infotech CEO said once. Every human has the same apparatus, evolutionarily speaking, which helps one to abduce, deduce, induce many relations.

Best,
VR
is the Reddy popln / influence in country side going down ? Message List
Reply | Forward Message #18812 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: Please read this content and revert with u r sugesstions.

When we had less knowledge of histology than what we have today, the cancer rate was less. The so-called corruption in India is miniscule when compared to that in the West. In US,A farmer growing oranges will be arrested if he sells orange juice; think of crappy tax deductions Senators and Congress members add to all bills in USA, only to help their buddies. USA will become like India, when middle class people in the USA don't find jobs that pay mortagage to homes, to cars. The responsibility of politicians in USA is to keep such middle class happy; if such a class is not happy, then people have time to reflect the shenanigans of the politicians.

Corruption is so sophisticated in the USA: you can get the work done, even you can have 'laws' changed for sake of u [like juice companies had it their way thanks to their so-called donations to the congress members]; but if you approach the problem in Indian way, you will get busted in the US. In India, we know who takes bribes, who does not--and it is not secret; in USA, it is secret.

In the case of India, we haven't had such a stable middle class; in US, such class has torn apart--thanks to outsourcing manufacturing jobs, or jobs that used to pay abt $20/hr to a guy with an assoc. degree.

Some 'ethical' guys bemoan the fact that many people fib in their resimes. The sales and marketing people of many tech companies are worse than an average second-hand-cars sales man. These morons promise solutions to even undecided problems.


The Law and order system is defective in principle. All these laws are founded in the normativity: that is, how people ought to behave. There is a large hiatus between what we intend and the supposed result. The law based on such moral ought presupposes that such hiatus between intentions and actions can be reduced. This presupposition is Christian theological, and entrenched in some domains like normative political philosophy, normative ethcis, and so.

Best,
Venkateswara Reddy



>They [the West] are progressed because of :
> less corruption, more accountability, work ethics, good planning and
>strategy, law and order, efficient government administration, people
>questioning wrong policies, solving problems on time etc
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Re: [ReddyOnline.org] Re: Ur Science Message List
Reply | Forward Message #6441 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
ingles


> You apparently dont seem to follow English too well, you prove this
> with your insistance in continuing this absord topic. I am
supplying
> you with evidence to this fact.
>
> You should read your own posting dated Dec 14,2003
>
> From: "venkateshwara_reddy"
> Date: Sun Dec 14, 2003 3:00 pm
> Subject: Ur Science
>
> "Moderator, let this post go, for this is my last one on this."

Probably, the so-called expert on ingles may not care to know the
difference between factual and will-based moral, that calls for
*ought to do and ought not to do*. Who is showing the expertise?
Probably, we need some x-bar theorists!

Hope, this mail reads easily.

God bless ad-hominems.
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Re: [ReddyOnline.org] Re: Ur Science Message List
Reply | Forward Message #6427 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: UrChristendom & atheism

> Or your CREDIBILIY WILL BE SHOT. By this

> Your English is very poor.

> dont understand wat u said mostly but i dont think u know wat an
>atheist is they are definitely not christians, they do not have a
>religion or a god. here for ur enlightenment is the definition from
>dictionary.com
>http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=atheism

Probably, our lords' last resort is dictionary. Dictionaries wont
settle claims. Had that been so, Einstein would have been wrong by
claiming Mass = Non-variable.

For more on atheism:

At the Modern origins of Modern Atheism: Father Michael J Buckley.

Christians were called atheists, Even though they believe in Lord
God. For more,

Porphyry among the Early Christians, In Romanitas et Christianitas,
by Grant R.M., 1973.

Pagan criticism of Christianity during the first 2 centuries A.D.,
In Aufsteig and Niedergang der Rominschen Welt: Geschichte und Kultur
Roms im Spiegel der Neuren Forscgung, pp1055-1118., by Benko Stephen,
1980.

Pagan Rome and the Early Christians: Batsford Ltd, London, by Benko
Stephen.

Recent Book on Christian understanding Roman pagans,
Literature and Religion at Rome : Cultures, Contexts, and Beliefs by
Denis Feeney. In this book, the author argues that then pagans never
had belief system, even though they held beliefs.


Yes brothers, my credibility at stake, thanks to majority vote.
----------------------------------------kjklk----------
Re: [ReddyOnline.org] Re: Ur Science Message List
Reply | Forward Message #6407 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
UrChristendom & atheism

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "sreenivasa reddy"
wrote:
> I agree , becuase i could understand wat hes talking about , I
>thought atheists were ppl who didnt belive in a god at all, but he
>calls them christians as well :O WTF!!!!!!!

Unless our friend, :O WTF!!!!!!![sic] as well as other semitic
hindoos do not presuppose that God is necessary for religion(note the
singular), as do many atheists(there are no theism, atheism,
hemitheism in India, btw) , these debates becomes foul matches.
Probably such matches have values in both semitized hindoo gangs and
in semitized Indian secular gangs.

Religion does not require God, nor scriptures(say, Bible for Xians),
nor ecclestial organization(for instance, Roman Church for
catholics). But they are contingent properties of emperical religions
among the beings that we humans are.

Of course, Buddhism is atheism, for our science of Indian traditions
= Christian Theology. We got majority votes, so Christian theology
is our science. This majority voice of India goes thus.

What happenes when Indian hindoos experience the way Christians,
secular Christian do. This is what is being get.
--------------------------jhjkhjk------------------------------
I'm proud to be a hindu Message List
Reply | Forward Message #6406 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Negative Compaigning

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "rdy_01" wrote:
> Please read my numorus past postings. I have written several times
> before about the Christian Crusades, and how the Christians
>Butchered non believers.

Sir, Christians in middle ages saw witches copulating with Devil.
These witches were burnt alive. The 21st cy christian, like the
hindoo semites in this group, agrees to the above fact and condemns
them for doing such. Western culture, in meantime, got enlightened,
fought religion. So you are repeating what is being said in the books.


Here is a protestant theologian, Karlheinz Deschner, documeted lately
about Criminalities of Roman Church.

http://www.deschner.info/


So far, 6 volumes written about Eastern Christianity and avalable in
german:"Kriminalgeschichte des Christentums"
= "The Criminal History of Christianities".

What is so great about Hindoos writing about Christian atrocities,
when Christian theologian themselves are condemning Christianity of
the Church of Devil?

Of course, for this kind of hindoos, such christians were fanatics,
intolerant. Another redescription of the problem! These questions are
waiting for explanations that render those Christian intelligible.

Negative compaigning is not so good for a heathen! Probably, it is
for semitized hindoos, who inherited Christian experience that says
offering pooja-s = believing in God.

Let me quote a true Christian observation of Indian heathen:

From Burghart and Cantile, Eds., Indian Religion, Curzon Press,
London, p.8

[The question, "Do you believe in Vishnu?" makes no sense in the
Indian context: *it cannot even be put*.]

For 21st Indian hindoo software engineer, doctor, mgmt specialists,
Hindoos are believers. This darn hindoos know very well of atheism =
not having belief in God. And our friends never care to know that
Christians ca. 100 AD were considered *atheists* by then *true roman
pagans*(not the wanna be Galileos)



Forgive my ingles, brother!
------jkjlkjl------------------------------------------------
Re: [ReddyOnline.org] Re: Good one- Socrates Message List
Reply | Forward Message #6404 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: Good one- Socrates

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Venkata Rama Krishna Reddy
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> When we apply this to mathematics,
>
> There are axioms on which all the theorems depend on ,
> but these axioms could not be proved or defined
> sometimes unless we perceive them with common sense.

well, mathematics(just mathematics) is not concerned about
ontological status. For example,

Let P: There exists a set of real numbers(ontological status)
Q: That There exists a set of real numbers is true(meta-level)

Math deals with statements that are of Q type. Similarly, Sciences
never deal with truth-value of our experience(epistemelogical), they
rather provide meta-claims(explanations) of such experience. Social
sciences are not progressing for this very reason.



> (the concepts of line, point, area etc., am I wrong
> here, please point it out)
> Can we claim that all the theorems in mathematics are
> wrong because they are based on unproven things.

> My point here is, that above all our common sense
> and experience will teach us how to distinguish
> truth from fiction.
-----------------------gdgdfgdfg--------------------------
I'm proud to be a hindu Message List
Reply | Forward Message #6356 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Ur Science

Moderator, let this post go, for this is my last one on this.

> I dont need to show heathens looking at blackholes , but if u want
> consider galileo who discovered that jupiter has moon that orbit
around it
> therefore the earth is not the most important planet in the
universe created
> by god for man, he was classed as a heathen devil worshipper by the
church,
> even coppernicus and other scientists who re discovered a few
thousand yrs
> later after india that the sun does not go round the earth but
actually
> earth goes round the sun ; therefre earth is not centre of the
universe ,
> even they were called hereteics doing black magic.

Probably, this friend is unaware of Christianity. Catholic church
considered all protestants of which the offshoot is secularism
(secular christianity). The illiterate Indian, the 21st cy Indian
software Engineer, and the Noble prize winner at Lawrence Berkeley
Lab do experience the sun's movement across the horizon. The Catholic
Church, the intermediary between Lord God and the man, explained that
that phenomenon = underlying reality. Galielo never said that we are
hallucinating. He rather fought against the authorities who held
beliefs(theories) about such phenomena. Simply mouthing geocentric,
heliocentric issues does not lend any intelligibility to a debate.

Calvin said Catholic is the Church of Devil. In the name of *true
Christianity*, he started Calvinism(a protestant branch). Gnostics
were heretics, this hereticism does not make them un-christian. Let
us take simple example in the case of Indian, a secular brahmin can
renounce his brahmin title; the latter never renounce him. Even if
you see a brahmin girl in strip club, yet we do say she is a brahmin
yet with a qualifer(brahmin stripper). Christians debates are like
the same way we play in Indian version.

There is a famous doctrine of the Catholic Church, which says,
"Extra ecclesiam nulla salus": there is no salvation - i.e. being
saved from the clutches of the Devil - outside the Church. This does
not make atheists, seculars, protestants un-Christian.


Of course, Indians developed science of language(esp syntax, not
meaning-reference of Indology, Christians), science of ritual,
cognitive sciences, math. This is due to their internal dynamic as
well. Christians, Muslims, Jews are more into Natural science due to
the dynamic of religion. I am asking the semitic hindoos in this
group to distinguish both two.


> But heathens were already lookin at the stars long b4 christianity
came
> about, just think of Asoka but there were many gr8 sages b4 him.


>
> the grand unified theory is not yet existant but there is a string
theory
> which is close, but even this thoery is not due to christianity, it

The whole western culture(including the illiterate Christian in
Ancient Rome, look at old debates b/w Roman pagan philosophers and
Christians) has been obsessed with Grand theories for last 2000
years. Have you seen any illiterate hindoo in India into this Grand
theories. I never heard from any Old hindoo illiterate folks and
literate brahmins in my village, saying the Order in Comos = God.
Yet, I see local christians saying Gravity = Will of God, Force =
Will God, Torque = Will of God. eye lashes with equal length = Will
of God. Got the difference? The two f-s in *difference* is also Will
of God. How do you understand such Christian, and the culture it
produced without making those christians stupid?


Of course, for Indian software Ers, scientists, European History =
World History. Western devolopement = HUmanity development. Yes,
Christianity is True Catholic(for humankind).
----------kkl-----------------------------------
I'm proud to be a hindu Message List
Reply | Forward Message #6330 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
[ReddyOnline.org] Re: I'm proud to be a hindu

I would have been happy had you put forth your arguments. There is
implicit drive in religion, that christianity, islam, judaism are, to
find order underneath Cosmos.

> i just pity your ignorance of saying
>
> "There were no Christianity, we would not see Indians into science,
> engineering etc."
>
> i just donno how to tell u how much i am laughing after seing this
>in your mail.even a lay man say the contributioon of india to the
>mathematics.even the great scientist Albert Einstein has once
>said "if India has not contributed Zero to the world all the things
>would never have been discoverd"

Sir, have you seen the qualifier I put in my post. Let me paste here:
science(natural). See the emphasis on Natural. Your award of
ignorance never belittle me. Probably, it may of value in reddyonline
tout court.

> i just pity your ignorance if christianity has got the engineering
>or science to india what do you say about Harappan civilization
>which has well planned cities.

There is a big difference b/w what is necessary and unncessary. Show
me heathens in the past looking at Blackholes, or developing Grand
Unified Theories.

> i just pity for your ignorance

ROFL, brother!
--------kkll---------------------------
I'm proud to be a hindu Message List
Reply | Forward Message #6314 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: I'm proud to be a hindu

I donno why these issues jar our modern friends in this egroup.
Friends, I've never distorted the experience of Christians, muslims,
Seculars. I am rather asking them, as well as you, to reflect on that
experience. Simply mouthing hackneyed slogans does not help
undertstand the problem either.

> I read in one of the mail that they JESUS is god. But as far as my
>knowledge (through television) is concerned JESUS is not god but
>he's a follower of God. When they're going to follow the god's
>follower then why can't we accept other forms of god.

Apostles, or Christians never said the Jesus is God. Of course,
mediocre, wannabe experts on religions may say that.

There are two characters to be distinguished. 1) Jesus, son of the
Carpenter in Nazareth 2) Christ-figure.

Jews are waiting for the Christ(the anointed one, messaih) to come.

Jesus in whom Lord God, the Christ revealed. This is the *unique*
revelation. This revelation is for the humnity to be saved.

If it is not unique, we can see multiple revealtions in the humanity.
Then, the Devil might have revelaed in Jesus. This is 2000 years old
problem--called Christological Dilemma. One extreme of this problem
is Christology, the other pole is theology. The former concentrate on
one relatum, the Jesus Christ, the latter on Christ, Lord God.


If uniqueness is emphasized, religion becomes intolerant. If not,
Christianity ceases being Christianity. That is, Christianity gets
secularized. This secular Christianity which Indologists, modern
intelligentia part of spreads perfidiously in the name of Law,
rights, science(natural) etc.

The more Christianity gets secularized(atheism, deism etc), the less
heathens can recognize the religion.


There were no Christianity, we would not see Indians into science,
engineering etc. This is another issue altogether. Some of our
friends in this group dub me Christain! Cognitive dissonace:)
-------------------------hfhfgh---------------------------------
Follow Lord Jesus Christ and Your God Message List
Reply | Forward Message #6306 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: [ReddyOnline.org] Follow Lord Jesus Christ and Your God

-The language of Christian theology is our daily stock-in-trade. This
theological lingo contains God, One God, Universal God, Sin, Prayer,
Worship, sacraments, eschatalogy, revelation of God, Idolatry,
Zoolatry, Pluralism, salvation, Devil etc..

-When one does science, he usually picks up definitions, concepts
from the theory that explains certain phenomena.

-If you are doing Newtonian Physics, mass is FIXED, whereas in
Einsteinian, it is VARIABLE.

-Heathinish traditions of India have been described/explained by
Muslims first, later by Christians. Muslims, Christians, Indologists,
missionaries, the current West never understood either Roman Cults or
Indian traditions. Of course, tomes on these affairs have been
published for generations of missionaries, Indologists.

-If unrepenant heathen like me were to accept Theological language, I
would be accepting Christian theology as Science of Indian
traditions. Why should I accept?

Never do you see an Einsteinian physicist accpeting Mass =fixed,
vocabulary that is part of Newtonian Theory.

-Hindoos are semitized inasmuch as they dont need to take baptism,
nor do they need to accept Jesus as their savior, for they repeat
christian themes(God, liberation etc) in schools, in discussions
everywhere.


-The religion of Al hind is the experience of Muslims. This
experience was compounded by Christian missionaries. Muslims,
CHristians have been compelled to see ubique religions in India.

-I do accept that that is their way of looking(structered
experience), but their experience is not *veridical*.

-Why do the modern hindoo organizations, parties, modern
intelligentia consider the experience of the west/muslims/christians
*veridical*.

-For example, we see stick appearing bent when immersed in the water.
This kinda experience is universal among human beings, cultual
experiences, one of which is this religion business, is not. We know
that stick is not really bent, yet we are not hallucinating. Idem for
Christians, Muslims, the western culture, the [+hindoo] semites and
the [-hindu] Indian semites.

-Christians do see us Idol worshippers, they do see religions, like
hinduism, sikhism, vaishnamism, animsm, buddhis, all sundry isms.
That is their experience which is not truth-functional. Do they have
science to explain heathens. Yes, if we accept theology as Science.

After all, Genisis says that Lord God gave religion to mankind,
because Lord God want to save us, and showed mercy. Why should
heathen like me accept Christian truths in secular guise?

-Nor do I see any religions in India, or in Rome. Of course,
Christins dubbed heterogenous Roman cults *paganism*. They did
samething in India, 1600 years later in India.

-Hindoos have never understood Christianity. Understanding them
presuposes Christians not mistaken, nor stupid etc.

-Understanding is prerequisite in any human quest.
-Modern Indians pretend that they undestand Christianity, Islam,
Judaism. Of course, How should I look like to such Indians?





--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, jaganmohanreddy jangamreddy
wrote:
> hi venkateshwar reddy,
> i dont understand if u r supporting christianity or
> hinduism.could you make it clear.
>
> Jai Hind,
>
> J.J.M. Reddy
>
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Follow Lord Jesus Christ and Your God Message List
Reply | Forward Message #6279 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: [ReddyOnline.org] Follow Lord Jesus Christ and Your God

Utter nonsense; the object of worship is the ONLY ONE lord god or
Devil that our deva-s are.


--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "docsunny50"
wrote:
>
> first of all, as somebody pointed out this is not a venue for
> proselytsing. yet some pointers:
> christians worship God , who is common to all. those who say
christians
> only enter heaven are mistaken.

Christians are right about saying that their way is ONLY ONE way to
be saved. Of course, this statement is unintelligible(not
understable) for non-Christians. For christians, religion is "Worship
of TRUE God." Just rendering believers in the only one GOD
intelligible, one need to explain in non ad hoc fashion, to wit,
mistaken = trivilization/distortion of the experience of Christians.

And brothers like this soul are experts on hindoos and their idol
worhsip!
-----------------------------jkljkljl------------------------------
Follow Lord Jesus Christ and Your God Message List
Reply | Forward Message #6277 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: [ReddyOnline.org] Follow Lord Jesus Christ and Your God

There are many presuppositions in this debate:

How to distinguish religion from other phenomena, say, meta-physics,
dreaming, philosophy etc.

Do religion exist in India?
The object of worship being TRUE God or Devil, do hindoos worship, to
make Christians intelligible?
Zoolatry, Idolatry: What are they?

Christians are not mistaken. When we dont understand some phenomena,
we usally distort/trivialize their experience by redescribing.

"Jesus Christ is the way for humankind, in Him humanity finds its
oneness": the uniqueness/oneness is the key for Christianity.

After all, Christians are not being stupid during the last 2000
years. And our Indian brothers say they have been mistaken.
----------------------jlkjlk--------------------------------
Re: [ReddyOnline.org] Reddy Bros and Sis Message List
Reply | Forward Message #6025 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: aryan?

> very apparent that India has been Invaded for 1000's of years by
many
> foriegn groups. The Greek, Persian, Mongols etc etc. The Caucasian
> groups are known as Aryan's in India, named by the Brahmins. There
> is no doubt in my mind that some sort of attach happened 1000's of
> years back. One can call it what they want,ie. Invasion Attach
Assult
> or whatever.
> It is extremly difficult to prove, because of poor
> record keeping or no records period. Remember all the Sacrad
texts,
> Veda etc where always passed down verbally.

Yeah, the true religion, the religion that christianity is, do
need 'universal history' of Cosmos. In this process, Philosophy of
History(not history of philosophy) was born. Missing Sons of Noah
were ruling distant East, so went the 15th cy Gospel(check any
history discussions in Enlightened seminaries of Europe) And our
friends dont know that mittani cults of India spread to Ancient Rome
without missionaries/wiping infidels/proselytization. Different skin
colors, cults, practices were ubique in Rome; let alone Aryan Invaded
India.

> They were never written
> down. This way the Brahmins could keep them a secret, and only a
> select few really knew what they said, till now.
> Still many of the
> verses are subject to debate. Remember when something is not
written
> down but rather verbally transmitted, it is subject to human error.

Writing down things get distorted by means of burning, as did Brits,
Muslims. Read Frits Staal on 'Meaningless Mantras' before sermonzing.
He described built-in correcting code structures in passing downs.

Indian traditions debated on many issues esp on 'experience' but not
on 'reference and meaning' thing, that is common in Christianity.
The Indology, the alter ego of Christian theology, is carrying
forward the Christian debates on meaning-reference business. Look at
any Philosophy of Linguistics in modern elite universities, found are
secularized christian debates on "Cosmos = Meaning = Will"


> Also if you look a the physical atributes of people in India they
> vary greatly from North to south, and even East to West.

This was recognized long before Christians, Indologists and their
Indian modern cohorts. For example, Rajasekhara in Kavyamimasa
described people of northern India--gaura, eastern India--shyaama,
Western--pandu, southern--krsna. These descriptions does not entail
color discrimination.

Whence did correlation become cause. Another phenomenon in social
sciences that is in need of non ad hoc explanation.
----------------kjlkjl-----------------------------------------------
Reddy brothers from Southern California Message List
Reply | Forward Message #5964 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: Reddy brothers from Southern California

> I saw the caste system in villages closely.As a kid I use to
surprise
> when the lower caste villagers use to sit on the floor and eat in a
> different plates when they visit our house.

Mind you, we are in the era of disposable plates, disposable chairs
and disposable cups. Also disposable 'marriages' Never did I feel
ashamed when my hosts, for instance, Brahmins--alas, aryans--served
meals on leafs, sitting on the floor. The rich reddies in our
villages supply rice and other provisions for the 'poor' brahmin
(aryan!) to prepare his meals when he is called for ceremonies.
Indeed, most of the Indian familes except western(ized) tribes, who
got *fixed* dining paraphernalia, have dynamic hosting system.
Sometimes, our 'superstitious' reddies adapt their homes according to
the guests they are serving. This dynamic varies even if the person
served is reddy, for example, the cot, the bedding, kitchen being
chat room, movement of chairs across home. That the children of Lord
God have special guestrooms and dining rooms(check any home in US,
or in 'modern' India) does not mean that the Indian superstitious has
to incorporate themes of homo modernus. They are rather
anthropological questions yet to be answered in non ad hoc fashion.
Anyway, Anthropology is another disguised variant of Christian
theology.
-----------------------vbcvbc---------------------
Naren2k is banned from ROL Message List
Reply | Forward Message #5838 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
absurd

The works of that missionary referred to are tantamount to Manu
smriti. Unless our secular brother presupposes, as our
Christian/Jewish/Islamic brethern experience, that sense of divinity
is implanted in the heart of every human that Lord God Created in His
image. After all, believers make claims about the world, one of which
is *innate sense* of divinity implanted in humanbeing. These claims
are not veridical. Indian traditions are not *believe in* object
types. Maybe, the 21st cy modern man with his abstract/scientific
thinking arsenal is experiencing such world. Majority Votes from
Hindu semites and from scholars of western(ized) culture and Monier-
Williams dictionary wont settle these claims.

On community: There is another phenomenon called ecumenicalism among
believers. On one hand, we are sons of Lord God, as believers
experience, for there is only one account that makes the cosmos that
was, is, and shall be explanatory-intelligible; on other, we are
differentiated based upon race, culture, color. The pendulum in
religion(no plural, for there is only religion) swings back and fro
between aforesaid poles.





> absurd, any individual is free to adopt any religion he believes
> in. it's only in islam and judaism that one has to forgoe their
past
> names and idenity like venketeshwara becomes iqbal
> muhammad or jacob cohen. moreover reddy is not a caste tag
> it's a community label. iam sorry to say most of the arguments
> are a sorry excuse for sociology or anthroplogy. who's this
> swedish missionary to make these ridiculous statements?
-------------------------------gdgdfg-------------------------------
Naren2k is banned from ROL Message List
Reply | Forward Message #5831 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: [ReddyOnline.org] Reddies should be back in power in 2004,Visit www.ysrportal.com

From Sharpe, Eric J (1965): 'Not to destroy but to fulfill: The
contribution of J. N. Farquhar to the Protestant Missionary Thought
in India before 1914' Uppasala: Swedish Inst of Missionary Research


p.31

"Missionaries united in condemning the caste laws - "a lie against
nature, against humanity, against history" -as being contrary to the
Christian spirit of brotherhood: they declared caste to be the "bane
of India", and demanded that caste be utterly rejected by all
converts to Christianity"

It is *inhumane* for a Christian irresptive of its shade to hang
on "Reddy Tag", the tag that is condemned by Christians, Muslisms,
liberals etc. CAUTION: this is not *my* pronouncement. It is rather
of Christians or believers in Lord God.


I dont see any religions in Asia, Africa except Judaism, Islam,
Christianity. Of course, Christians, atheists, jews, muslims are
compelled to see ubiquitous religions. In doing so, they created
hinduism(first by islam), Buddism, Shintoism and Taoism by
Christians. Their cognitive experience is not product of
hallucination; nor is it reality. So is the conversion. Secularized
religious cultures, such as Western,Semitic hindus those who are
parroting christian themes in the guise of reforms w/o understanding,
Raja Sekhar Reddies cant even reflect on their experiece, for their
stance deny doing so.





> > I dont find any reason why some of the guys are against a person
> whos a reddy but belong to a different religion?Whats wrong in
> converting his/her religion ? What's the problem if YSR is a
> christian or his relatives are married to a christian ? We are here
> to talk about reddys irrespective of their religion..
> >
> >
> >
> > To the famous reddys i would also like to add Mr Rajeev Reddy of
> Country Club.
> > DR.YSR is a not Reddy. He is from Cristian Community.
> > He did his son and daughter marriages r in Churches.
> > How i believe, he is a reddy... No no he is not a
> > Reddy.
--------------jk-----------------
Re: Chapter 3 : from Think and Grow Rich Message List
Reply | Forward Message #5755 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
I have been intending(willing, thinking +vely, believing, faith) to
be rich, in terms of money with a fixed a lower bound. No success as
yet. Were I to become rich, I would re-describe all hitherto actions.
Redescribing actions as intentional is not explanation per se. I
asked a friend having a degree in medicine a question, "buddy, why
you wannabe doctor". His answer, as we know, went on: "I believe THAT
I want to serve mankind ..."

His answer was an intentional explanation, to wit, he was filling
ellipsis after *intentional subordinator*, 'that'. Or, he was,
rather, re-formulating the problem in higher framework where buncha
people can understand. Christians, for example, say that 'Lord God
gave religion to humankind.' The 'that' clause in the previous
sentence can be well understood among believers.

If I did become president of United States tomorrow, I should re-
describe whole actions thus far in my life to give elegant biography
of myself:) Hadn't Wife of Narayana Murthy, Infosys President,
redescribed her actions, after all, in well-rounded biographical
series? This is the folk psychology derided in my illiterate[sic]
village in underdeveloped, oppressed, impervious-to-progress and
corrupted India.

Apart from my bucolic rants, intentional psychology has been shown
unscientific by reductionists, reductionists that have not given any
alternate explantion.

For more, one can start their perusal with the following:

Thomas Nagel(1974): What is it like to be a bat, Philosophical
Review: 83(4)





> FAITH VISUALIZATION OF, AND BELIEF IN ATTAINMENT OF DESIRE
>
> The Second Step toward Riches
>
> FAITH is the head chemist of the mind. When FAITH is blended with
> the vibration of thought, the subconscious mind instantly picks up
> the vibration, translates it into its spiritual equivalent, and
> transmits it to Infinite Intelligence, as in the case of prayer.
-----------------------jjkjkjk------------------------------------------
Re: [ReddyOnline.org] history affects present Message List
Reply | Forward Message #5705 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: history affects present

> 2] now about India. the essayist mentions Mahabharatha
> [MB]and ramayana as identifying factors of a united India. that
> makes me feel if the authors really knows his mahabharatha.
> first , the date [writing] of the mahabhartha is yet to be fixed
with
> large number scholars placing it around 200AD. even in the MB,
> it's a epic struggle between many principalities, kingdoms, tribes
> either under the kaurava or pandava banner.so it's basically not
> talking of a unified bharatha.

Indology Scholarship,eh? yet to be fixed c. 200 AD, bah!

> The south of Vindhyas always had it's own languages [dravidian
> ] and religion [Shavism] quite contrasting with Aryan
> languages[devanagari] or customs.

This lord may not know that almost 5000 clusters of words share both
Aryan and Dravidian linguistic classification, resulting invalidation
of undelrying premiss! Majority of Votes does not produce scientific
knowledge. Time to look at enthymemes in linguistics. For more, look
at Charles Bailey's work: Time based linguistic analysis, OUP.

> since there was interchange
> of information, either cultures must have adopted favourable
> customs. but this doesnt mean there was a unified entity.

The concepts such as nationalism, unification are modern. Go and ask
our Indology, Anthropology, Sociology brethern on
constitutive 'cultural difference'. Simply assuming theological
thinking on humans and their cognitive abilities, our secular
brethern in social sciences have been producing Xian theology, for
example, abstract/concrete thinking, scientific/'superstitious' etc.


> it wasn't just the british who had exploited our divided people ,
> the turkic invaders, the huns, the greeks everyone chanced on a
> rich country with caste ridden people. numerous travelogues of
> arab and chinese traveller s attest and document the caste
> based divisions.

echolalia, no different from what Gandhi said on division.


> Well, my point here is not to discount our wonderful culture which
> gave the world it's numeral system, was first to cultivate rice,
> invented chess , had one of theearliest public health systems
> [mohenjendaro], one of the first highways[ grand trunk road],
> provided the world it's rarest gems[hope, kohinoor..], wonderful
> works of literature [abhignana shakuntalam, meghadootha,]
> can we rest on these past laurels and not recognise our present
> day blisters-caste system and over population. it would be plain
> foolish.

Seems like some metropolitan educated fringe. The so-called high
caste oppressor in Bihar never quotes Manu Samhita to opress the
dalits. Now the modern gyaani-s are linking practices with theory.

> even the Chinese had a wonderful civilisation , they invented
> printing, paper, missiles, fire works, silk rearing and so on. then
> it went to rut.

We know that modern intelligentia says that they are scientific,
africans, asians have not produced natural sciences, for they are
stagnant, or rut[sic]. This is the problem to be understood. Now our
lord re-describes the problem masquerading as explanation.

Why Indians, Africans, Native Indians, chinese, japanese have not
produced 'moral theories', 'natural sciences.' Why have religious
cultures produced by Christianity, Islam, JUdaism been producing
natural sciences. Just saying that we underwent evolution, modernized
does not explain the aforesaid questions.


> but they recognised their shortcomings and are
> now on to become the world's second largest economy and
> super power. the lack of caste system and their recognition of
> danger of over population has vastly helped them in this.
> replies always welcome from everyone.

Profound of understanding caste system that is being controlled by
brahmins in the past, Reddies in AP. Spread this truth to secular
educated!
---------------------kjkjkkj------------------------------
You Morans Message List
Reply | Forward Message #5703 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: [ReddyOnline.org] The reason a person converts...

Human experience, such as sun's movement around earth, stick
appearing bent when immersed in water, that hindoos are devil
worshippers, that our sampradaaya-s are pale and erring variants
of 'true' religion that Christianity is, as Christians do
experience, is not false, nor is it truth-functional. The theories
(meta-claims) that explain such experience(object level claims) are
truth-functional.

Most of we hindoos have not understood christianity and Islam, yet we
are damn familiar with their language, such as pluralism, religion,
worship, God, Law, Will, free will etc. Were we to do science, we
need to render their claims/experience intelligible but not
false/stupid. Mulsims do see us being infidels. If we simply baptize
them with 'fanaticism', this re-labeling the problem hinders us
understand their experience. Saving phenomena/experience, whether it
is natural phenomena or not, is a pre-requisite to understand the
problem and do science.

We have engineers and doctors in this forum in baptizing problems, to
wit, caste system is divisive, stupid. This stance
denies one from understanding the problem. Let alone their sunken
theories on the same. And atheists in the West fight Christianity,
yet say that they are fighting religion. Christianity minus Christ
ceases being Christianity; this does not entail that Christianity
minus Christ is not religion. Atheist friends dont know that the
logical sphere of religion is different from that of Christianity.



Why modern Indians, like their western friends, succumbed to re-
description IS another problem to be understood. Probably,
understanding Christianity does give clue as to why this
modern Indian intelligentia experiences in such a way, thanks to
their learnt ways of talking. Having a BS in Engineering/Medicine
does not make one as a social scientist explaining caste system,
religion, language, politics. Of course, we should have intelligible
talk were we to understand the problem confronting us.







--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, prashant reddy
wrote:
> bhaisaab,
> this looks like a great argument, but can u write in
> plain english please. let lesser mortals like me
> understand your fine words.
> best regards,
--------------------gdfgd--------------------------
You Morans Message List
Reply | Forward Message #5587 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
The reason a person converts...

> The reason a person converts, regardless of their caste, be it a
> Reddy, Kamma, Brahmin, yes many Brahmins even today, all be it the
> numbers are small, are converting to christianty too. Remember
Sister
> Nirmila who replaced Mother Teresa as the leader of their
organization
> is a Converted Brahmin. No one single women has that much clout as
> her now. Lot of Hindus regardless of their caste have converted on
> their own free will or by force.

A couple of issues to be noted:

a) Before jumping onto the process that conversion is, as though one
became expert by studying in our elite schools in India and abroad,
one has to explain the phenomenon, conversio. That is, the object-
level cliams of Christians, such as: heathens are devil/satan
worshippers, Islam/Christianity coined Hinduism is pale and erring
variant of Christianity, made intelligible. Some hindoos, pseudo
social scientists, liberal christians, semite hindoos baptize the
aforesaid objective claims of christians with being corruption of old
testament etc, alas, a re-description of the phenomenon. Thus far, I
have not yet come across meta-claims about the Conversio and that
Religion = Worship of True God, except self-descriptions.

b) Of course, Lord God created man in his own image. God has
given 'free will' to chose between God and Devil. We know the
reference of 'free will' in religion that Christianity, Islam,
Judaism are.

c) Agreed, Mother Theresa is Great, so is the 'converted' Brahmin
Nirmala. How come a christian that Nirmala is hanging on 'brahmin
tag' which is internal to Indian traditions. How come Nirmala and her
mother, Mother theresa, assumes that their object level claims, one
of which is that heathenish traditions are error, are meta claims.
Scientific explanation is welcome, no self-descriptions/re-
descriptions please.

d) Clout, Donations, Auto-Biographies and Majority Votes do not count
as explanations.
---------------------jhjjjkjk---------------------------------------------
Reddy's willbe back to power in 2004 Assembly elections Message List
Reply | Forward Message #5554 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
[ReddyOnline.org] Re: naren2k may be a kamma spy,Be careful

a. The varna system, ill understood by modern brethern in the guise
of redescriptions, inlcuding mleccha, is internal to Indian
traditions. Thus, the questions such as, Who is 'true'
Brahmin, 'true' Kshatriya etc., are internal to Indian traditions.


b. Tradition = practicing the practices handed by one's forefathers.
These practices are checked by local communities, individual families
( in the case of family practices). Hindoo semites grounds these
practices in theory as though practices(actions) are manifestations
of the theory(beliefs), thanks to implicit expansion of Christianity.

c. Christianity, changing the reference to religion, says Religion =
worship of True God; practices of others are false, for their beliefs
are false, for they believe in false God, i.e., Devil.

d. Questions such as, Who is a Christian, are internal, theological
within Christianity. Does Catholic Christianity think that the
Protestants' claims are as 'true' as their own?

e. Since when did the entity 'Hinduism' gain currency in India? a
closer look at interactions between Islam and Indian tells this
story. Honest reports by early Christian missionaries, say, Rogerius,
in India c. 1500 AD reveal different story as to the existence
of 'religion'.

f. Religion expands in many ways, one of which is proselytization.
Other, as we know, is being born in Christian family. To undergo
conversion, one has to be Christian first. Idem for Islam, Judaism.

g. on oft-heard facile theories on Karma:

Let us play with science, a bit. For example, color terms were once
tracitly defined in terms of subjective experience of color
perceivers; for example, 'red' was defined ostentivly by pointing to
examples, and then real red was defined as whatever seems red
to 'normal' observers under 'normal' conditions. But once we have a
causal reduction of color phenomena to light reflectances, then,
according to many thinkers, it becomes possible to redefine color
expressions in terms of light reflectances. Thus we can carve off and
eliminate subjective experience of color from real color. Similar
remarks could be made about reduction of heat to molecular motion
(k.e), solidity to molecular movements in lattice structures, sound
to air waves.

To continue the story about Red, once we know that color experiences
are caused by certain sorta photon emission. Now red = photon
emissions of 600 nanometers. Thus, a distinction should be made b/w
what we experience, ie., phenomena and what is underlying reality,
ie., causal account.

One thing is pretty clear: what we experience, such as red, heat,
solidity and movement of the sun across horizon is *NOT* the
underlying reality. This is long known in Indian traditions.
Consider everyday phenomenon that every human being experiences:
Human beings are intentional. That is, each one of us experiences as
a being that wishes, dreams, desires, sets up projects, pursues
ambitions etc. Christian/Islam/Judaic theology, as well as Western
philosophy, Psychology including modern Indian psychoanalysts,
neuropsychiatrists assumes that this experience is True. That is what
we experience and we experience this, we believe, because it is
reality. Put it simply, we are intentional agents.

Indian traditions, on the contrary, tells us why we are compelled to
experience as being intentional/moral agents, and also how to get rid
of this illusory experience. That is, at first approximation, the
explanation should be experiential in nature; one has to experience
this intentionality as well. When this agent-less actions come to the
fore, the self/the so called individualism, Will, Purpose has no
role. How to connect these agent-less actions etc? How to account for
mores? Thus, being agent-less, the actions are linked to prior lives,
in other words, Karma; a distiction is made b/w experience and
experiencer. And experience does not require an agent, the theory
goes. This is scientific, better than our pseudo-scientific, modern
psychology/philosophy of Mind masquerading being Scientific, for
whole western culture, Islamic, Judaic cultures strutured their
experience as intentional actions. This is traced to understanding of
Christianity being religion.

I dont see any difference b/w illiterate layman in my village and
modern social scientists, and Indian educated regarding Karma.
Understanding is a prerequisite before sparring over reforms! One can
built theories only if we understand social phenomena. On the
contrary, our western and westernized, intelligentia of social
sciences, tries to understand the social world in theories. This
shows arrant inanity.


> Reddy is a caste yes and christianity is a religion , but u fail to
>see that the caste system is part of hinduism, if you change
>religion and leave hinduism then u no longer have a caste - ie an
>outcaste . Its like saying a christian decides to worship allah but
>carrys on callin himself a christian, although theres no law against
>this it does seem stupid. But nowadays most western brought up
>reddys use REDDY as a surname instead of their actual house name, So
>maybe in this context hes using reddy even though hes christian.
>
> PS this is also wat causes problems wen ppl marry intercaste or
>inter religion, i.e. wat caste are the kids? caste being the level
>of society that the law of karma has decided for you.

> Cristianity is a religion and reddy is a
> cast.Any cast people can select any religion.It is
> very unfortunate that you call YSR is impure reddy.
--------------------kjhjkhjk------------------------
Against the Book insulting Lord Ganesha Message List
Reply | Forward Message #5519 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: Against the Book insulting Lord Ganesha

> "Against the Book insulting Lord Ganesha and
> Hinduism"
>
> hosted on the web by PetitionOnline.com, the free
> online petition
> service, at:
>
> http://www.PetitionOnline.com/HSCULL/

The atheist Prof. Paul Courtright, Child of Prof. Wendy Doniger of
Theology school(in secular jargon, Divinity school) at U of Chicago,
tells hindoos that he has been doing Science of religion. How do our
respected reformers, say, Arya Samaj, Brahmo Samaj of Raja Ram Mohan
Roy's descendents counter his arguments? Have these hindoo
organizations, 21st educated hindoos understand the problem as to why
Western culture portrays such and such culture is primitive, savage,
puerile, underdeveloped, 'superstitious'. The scholarship in social
science, including Indology to which one reformer in this egroup
fervently refers to substantiate his arguments, is alter ego of Paul
Courtright, to wit, the modern scholarship hides beneath
redescriptions. Yesterday, our Christian fathers revealed heathen in
his blindness bows down to wood and stone, and the modern scholar in
the name of science, represents the same "bowing down" with "Symbols".
This is what unites the christian scholarship of 1800 or more years
and modern social sciences scholarship.

The modern India, the scholarship in Social sciences are full of such
Paul Courtrights; can one counter all these Pauls by petiotions? And
respected Pauls say that they are treating Christianity on par with
their Xian fathers invented religion called Hinduism. Have these
Pauls, atheists, commies and indian seculars understood that they are
playing within the dynamic of Christianity. I dont think so.By the
same token, hindoos cant understand what Indian traditions are. In
another newsgroup with full of modern hindoos, our hindoo brethern
and sisters are understanding Indian traditions against the
background of Christian Theology. Use notions, such as, God, Order,
Purpose of Life, His Will, His grace, Faithe, Scripture, what is
being done is Christian Theology but not Science, resulting in
garbling of understanding Indian traditions. And our modern hindoo
brethern and organizations are semitizing on one hand, fighting
semitic influence on the study of Indian traditions on other Hand.
Quite paradoxical.

May God that created the Cosmos that we are in bless the Hindu
Semites, Paul Courtrights, Aryo/Brahmo samajs!
-----klp—
Re: [ReddyOnline.org] kamma spies leave the group Message List
Reply | Forward Message #5472 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: [ReddyOnline.org] kamma spies leave the group

The so called Y (Samuel) Raja Sekhar Reddy attends
marriages/functions of opulent Kammas that 'our' political enemies
[sic] are, and fellow reddies can't even distinguish appearances from
reality; yet presume that political rants/skirmishes be underlying
reality.

Folks, how many Reddy MLAs/MPs have attended marriages etc of our
economically poor reddies. Given Reddies are 'generous', as the
saying goes, which does not entail that kammas are 'selfish'
or 'swaardhaparulu'

The best stratagem is to baptize me with 'Reddy hater, Kamma/Brahmin
supporter' ;)
--------jjk-----------------------------
Lets act like real Leaders Message List
Reply | Forward Message #5458 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: Lets act like real Leaders

> This is only an example. In human interaction, with caste
> based relationships that have been in place for hunderds if not
> thousands of years it will take more time to work at.

Good to see epistemic entities such as 'human interaction'; at last,
these interactions are reduced to intentions, feelings, actions etc.
Whatever theories in the market in re to India are either
reformulations or redescriptions. And my scientific brethern in every
scientific journal and forum parrot these re-formulations as
explanations. This pathological disorder can be traced to guess where!

Re-describe some event in Iraq in socio-anthopological jargon, as
part of Scientific disseration in Berkeley, Chicago, JNU; the result
is we know, Chair, Professorialship, Reformers!




> This is the same with
> any caste. This is the way to break down the Caste System, its
> everyones job to see this happens.

On onehand break down EVIL Caste system, on other hand, we, the proud
inheritors of Reddies have been rulers[sic] from hoary times.


> Surely everyone can not be so forward thinking as to go out and
> marry someone outside their own caste that would be too much to
> ask.

Another biblical jargon entered in here in the form of 'progression'.
Take a 'starting point' and fix a 'direction'(forward, background,
South, North), we know, leads to where!

Aside on roots of progressivism in Western culture whose dynamics is
tied to Christianity: the latter being an example of religion has to
produce 'History of Cosmos created by Lord God'; about 2000 years
ago, 'Philosophy of History' was sprouted in Theology. Now every
Indian Gyaani learns this Ph of History in his elite scientific
university in order to find hidden order(progression, Chaos,
disorder, order)!

Waltz forward folks;)
-----jkjk----------
Good Morning -Tea Cup .... Message List
Reply | Forward Message #5457 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: Good Morning -Tea Cup ....

> God may not have created us perfect beings

The illiterate(in secular jargon, non-intelligent, after all, our
reformers has been trumpeting that Indians are backward, for
illiteracy is ruining the innards of the Country) persons in villages
know what God our samskrita learnt friend refers to.


> but he has bestowed a most important thing on us-free will and
> intelligence. it's upto us to chose our destination.if we measure
> our success in worldy measures we will always be
> dissappointed , it's our spiritual growth the "tea -cup" was
talking
> about.all karmic philosophies are brahministic drivel.

Baptizing with "brahmanic drivel" shows ones inanity; let alone
scholarship!

Feel firm; Work Hard; treaded path is the Destinty showed by Lord God
outta his Created Cosmos!

Our intentional Psychology-secularized version of Theology-says that
our actions are embodiments of beliefs; 'reductionists' in Western
philosophical traditions says that it is wrong. Indian traditions
step in here to rescue our brethern on localizing falsity in those
theories.

Mind that 'self' has greater place in religion that Christianity,
Islam and Judaism are. So is the so-called individualism in
secularized religious cultures, such as the West. On the contrary, in
the Asia, self either has no place or is weak. Why? Go to Indology,
they will teach you, Brother? Agent-less actions shed light on what
Brahmanic-Karma theories(not doctrine, my Lord) has been driveling!


Thanks Christianity for inducing 'scientific-ness' and
extirpating 'superstitions' among Indians, sending Raja Ram Mohan
Roys to India :)
--------------jhjhhj-----------------------
Re: [ReddyOnline.org] Re: Each member should bring 10 new Reddy mem Message List
Reply | Forward Message #5350 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: reddy's in fiji and south africa

> these differences and variations make the arguement for caste
> system ridiculous and absurd. towards a united India bereft of
> caste.

Never did anybody coerce the supposed reddies in Africa/Carebbian to
not marry some tango presbytarian church going female or a kamma
Christian boy in Andhra. The social sciences brethern with
clandestine Christian hats and the Indian reformers who cant even
distinguish a ritual from liturgic event which transubstation is
ground practices in Theory. Whence are these *theoritical arguments*?



> "one's position should be firm, vacillation indicates cowardice".

Just feel "firm"; result gets actuated, after all our lords' pre-
theoritical notions have never been proved!
----jklkl---
TRS - A velma party Message List
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[ReddyOnline.org] Re: TRS - A velma party


> The oppressed are allowed once every few years to decide which
> particular representatives of the oppressing class are to represent
> and repress
>them.
> Karl Marx

Comrade, the above remark of _Lord of progressive Indians fits very
well in its own right were it tied to 'dynamic of christianity vs.
Western culture'

What our brother Marx was arguing, were I put in simple terms,
is "Why Church(Roman) has been intervening b/w God and Men" This
fellow, whose Das Kapital is better than micro economic explanations,
was fighting for a religion without an intermediary.

cf: "The only liberation of Germany which is practically possible is
liberation from the point of view of that theory which declares man
to be the supreme being for man. "

From Contribution to the Critique of Hegel's Philosophy of Right
by Karl Marx Deutsch-Französische Jahrbücher February, 1844

In fact, Church owned lands of modern Germany + France. Brother Marx,
as his forefathers and his posterity including Indian comrades, never
understood religion that christianity is. What one experiences is not
reality; reflect on that experience, which in turn helps one to gain
knowledge of that phenomenon. Daily, we experience Sun's movement
across horizon. Then Church authorities declared that this experience
is due to reality that Sun is moving around Earth. What Galileo had
done is that we are compelled to experience the sunrise, sunset in
that way due to earth's circling around Sun. Galileo fought against
then authorites; but never said that experience is product of
hallucination. Our Marx, father of liberals on the earth, illuded by
the fact that his experience of religion that christianity is = the
underlying reality.

Brother Freud had not understood it either. So have Indians w/
scientific hats been on the way to Jerusalem.
-------o-------------
Remembering our great mother "Monther Teresa of Culcutta" Message List
Reply | Forward Message #5267 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: Remembering our great mother "Monther Teresa of Culcutta"

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "Ramana" wrote:
>
> On the occasion of Her beatification I would like to share this
> with you ...
>
> where there is error, truth;

Another reformer praising Theresa with above line, Amen brother, Lord
God outside of his created Cosmos shall replace "error" in your heart.

What is this "error", Theresa and Christians echoing for last 2000
years?

Is this same as "programming error" or error in calculus?

Her Saint, St. Augustine, spoke at length on error in "The City of
God". Aquinas, whose name appears on every elite universities' walls,
repeats same theme.


All traditions(of ancient pagans, greeks, Indian heathens, Indian
Americans) are pale and erring variants of true religion which
christianity is.

Was Theresa stupid, inane or retarded? Not so, why they are compelled
to say that my forefathers sunk in error?
-------------lkllk-
I hate to say this Message List
Reply | Forward Message #5263 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: I hate to say this

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "naren2k" wrote:
> Yeah I hate to say this, but as long all people in India keep having
> CASTE feelings India will have a stunted growth. Lets face it if
India
> never had a CASTE system she would have been soo much further ahead
as
> a nation. Every group either feels superior to the other or
Inferior,
> what nonsence. Of course its easy to say one community never started
> the caste system, but another did. This only keeps the system alive
> and growing. If I am not wrong the CASTE system was officially
> outlawed before Independence.


The above rhetoric is tantamount to Washington thinktanks' assesment
of Islam that muslims are fanatic because of their books(Quran). That
is, instead of undestanding some phenomenon, it is 'modern' tendency
to baptize the latter with some jugglery. This push our problem one
step further. It is like saying that Opium induces sleep because it
has sleep-inducing properties (Virtus Dormativa as the good doctor
put it in Moliére's play)


> But Laws have no value in India do they?

Aha, propping up laws is another phenomenon to be understood.

> How can one human be born greater then another?

About 900 people are in this group; Are they equal, if so, in what
sense? Who robbed the rights of oppressed in India. Of course, now we
have people with flagrant scientific mindsets, conducting statistical
surveys to get the conclusion in whichever fashion they need. Whence
have this surveying mentality(majority of votes) become science. For
every inductive claim to be settled, scores if not thousands of
hypotheses need be tested.




> Which god would have that. These are all man made idea's that have
been propertated for
> ages. Crap. We are doing what the British have done to ourselves
> divide and rule.

In Europe, 'religious intolerance'(secular jargon: bad vs. Good) is
the key for divisive religious society; this does not entail the
contrary. Standard echolalia of Brits. Brits exported
their 'experience' to our Indian brethern. What has been experienced
by this modern Indian tribe is that of their masters. It is not
about "extracting revenues from colonized"




> Each community is divided and concouring over the others.

Even Great Buddha affirmed that kshatriya-s(his own varna) is
superior to others. Now, 21st century software engineer/doctor's mind
says that contemporaries of Buddha were stupid/uncivilized. If one
were to do science, the object-level experience, for example,
christians experience that hindoos are devil worshippers, should be
rendered intelligible. Lok Satta, reformers, modern intelligentia are
nowhere near to being understood. Let alone reforming/solving!



> No man is born a poper, except in India. We force a man to be
> Illitrate and poor, he has no choice in India, because of the caste
> system.

How many of 900+ reddies in this group forced the so-called
untouchables to be poor/illiterate?


> If I am born a untouchable I am destind to be poor and road
> trash for the rest of my life.

Muse over untouchability; interrogate the experience. Marriage, one
aspect of this caste system, jars Indian sensibilities. How many of
our reddy brothers are marrying illiterate + poor(borrowed adjs)
reddy gals. 21st evolutionary mind has some pathological disorder:
individual psychology gets dubbed "casto-groupo-national psychology"


> A man must not be destind to the road because of his birth, but
>rather his own laziness or idolness, am man must not be
> superior to another because of his Birth in the so called upper
>caste.

I am superior, for I won't allow my brother to use my plate for
eating. I am not called superior, Am I? My brother is untouchable?




> But he can be great by his Deeds and Deeds alone.
>
> This is a never ending subject.


Caste ranters have never understood the phenomenon confronted. They
rather go for Christian/p-scientific intentional psychology to settle
the problem. Thats what my brother do, when he does not undestand
something, he shift the game unto others(ie, baptizing the problem
with 100 pages of nonsense) Never does he claim to be
scientist/evolutionary software engineer/doctor/reformer. Who is
Layman, my lord, Who has evolutionary mind?
-----------------fgdfgd----------------------
good article on Raavi Narayana reddy garu Message List
Reply | Forward Message #5196 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: good article on Raavi Narayana reddy garu

> http://www.andhrajyothy.com/mainshow.asp?qry=/2003/oct/18main16

Nor do I touch upon his contributions and achievements, which are
irrelevant to what follows; the second sentence of the last para in
the above article strikes me one thing of his understanding 'matham'.
Indian commies never undestood, like as our brethern in social
sciences and christians/muslims, what our sampradaaya-s are about,
except rollicking over the descriptions given to modern Indians by
they masters including Karl Marx, who was continuing the tradition of
German Romanticists who praised hindoo traditions in derogatory
manner. How come he wrote 'veelu naama' if his master really fought
religion(of course, I am aware of the fact that Marx fought
against specific denomination in christianity; this does not entail
he frowned upon religion).

-How many of our scholars of Indian descent in jurisprudence know of
the "Writing Will" and its roots in Christianity?

-Our karmakaanda-s(contrast with , pooja-s(contrast with worship),
sampraadaya-s(contrast with religion that christianity) have been
practiced/continued, for the practicing itself is a reason(sounds
convolute to christians and modern Indians, eh?), unlike western
(secularized christians) scientists grounds practices in beliefs
ensconced in holy books etc. Now the Indian educated loony fringe has
bin carrying on unintelligible explanations rendered by their
masters. What a shame!

All our answers can be found if Christianity were to be understood in
its inchoate form when encountered Roman cults. One lurker told in
this egroup that studying christianity, its development of social
thought, its intial cultural milieu, Roman pagan culture are
*irrelevant*. Whence have this Indian tribe learned this? Another
pretension?
--------------ooooo=------------------------
shocking news!! Message List
Reply | Forward Message #5187 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: shocking news!!

> Thats how a muslim family punished a innocent girl, please write to
> women rights guys.

imho, 'shocking' looses explanatory force in explaining the eclipse
of heathenish culture with Islam, for being shocked is ubiquitious.
Thus there is no shock.

Before taking avenge, Hindoos should start understand the phenomenon
they have been confronting. Dont expect justice in secular state,
which is founded upon law. After all, one needs to prove the *intent*
(theology term) of commiting such and such act and its variants.




> http://www.newindpress.com/Newsitems.asp?
> ID=IEO20031013152518&Title=This+is+India&rLink=0
-------------lllkkk----------------------------------------
India-wither goes? Message List
Reply | Forward Message #5186 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Transparency Int'l

>it is amusing to read forecasts from politicians and
>others about India being a super-power by 2015.

Generic response: forecasts does not entail acting. Of course, so-
called modernized Indians buy theology that cemented a relation b/w
acting(Law) and intending(Will)


> in short an externally dependent industry.the same holds true for
> "business process outsourcing".

Caricatured view: I am willing to become janitor(sorry folks, I am
not yet civilized) were I to get paid like any high paid
profession whether it is outsourcing or dependent mantra.


>
> an essay by economists
> Prahlad&Hart explores this and says that "the real market
> opportunity amd growth are the country 's billion of poors"
> people in India have become so passive to Bribery and
> Corruption that pay-offs have become ubiquitous and a way of
> getting things done.


> we continue to suffer and debilitate from a legacy of socialistic
> economic decisions. these early policies can be traced to
> Harold Laski , a LSE professor who had a lot of influence on
> post-independent planners and who believed that market forces
> were synonymous with exploitation.

> unfortunately another landmark dissappears to human greed.

Now, every economist reverberate the themes of Nobel Laureate, Lord
Gunnar Myrdal's The Asian Drama.


> India ranks 71st in the transparency internation rating of honest
> countries. the beginning of end of this crime could start with one
> refusing to pay a bribe.

Apply same explanation of Transparency Intl or some social theorist,
the truth can be had that Africans are loosers. In other words, No
*empirical research* has been done on either corruption in Asia or
Africans being loosers.

What does Transparency Int'l or any sociopolitical journal says of
Asia? Asian ways of going abouts in the world breed this corruption.
Indian culture nourishes such phenomenon.

If something goes astray in the West, the social thinkers, say,
humanists/LSE Economists/philosophers/scientists, bemoan the fact
that Western values are deteriorating, and call for revival of
fundamental western values. What are these western values?
Secular Christian Values, needless to say!

Indian heathens are survived from being wiped out by Christian
brethern(in secular jargon, colonization) unlike American Indians,
for Indians pretended that they had understood christianity, as have
they been doing so. Now the modern Indian feigns that corruption in
Asia, since Asian Drama, in modern sociopolitical circles has bin
understood.

Indian soil is fertile for corruption, for caste system is morally
corrupt(generous Indic interpretation of secular jargon of
LSE/Harvard/World Savior)

Yesterday, Indian Heathens were impervious to the Word of Lord God;
they are impervious to progressive economy today.

May Lord God bless the Indian souls at purgatory!
----------------------------------=-----------------
Separate Telugana Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4661 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: Separate Telugana (Defintely a noble cause)

There shall be one Flock and one Shepherd!
----============================================-
GREAT debate! and my reply Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4601 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: GREAT debate! and my reply

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Srinivas Reddy Palakala
wrote:
>
> --- venkateshwara_reddy
> wrote:
> > > Isa—by the Lord; avaasyam—controlled;
> >
> > False purport
> Totally baseless comment. The translation is 100%
> correct unless one is totally in the mode of
> ignorance. I request the group to see "Presenting the
> Isavasyopanishad
> (http://www.bhakthinivedana.org/Isa/IsaOne.htm) with
> the commentary of Sri Swamiji"
> from http://www.chinnajeeyar.org/

Let me zero in on 'controlling'

Control:

a) What is the object, subject of this controlling.
b) Controlling presupposes intentions
c) Where do you/the so-called vacuous post-18th cy scholars get this
intentional thesis unless it is anglicized hindoos appropriation of
western secular christen philosophy.
d) There are no empirical constraints on the notion of deva in Indian
traditions. One offers pooja to stone, to snake, to pig, to dog, to
tree, to human. Equating deva with Him, He; this is what I call
semitizing Indian traditions.

May Lord God bless Semitized Hindoos at the Temple Mount, or in
Arabian desert where He descended to reveal His purpose(revelation)
to our semite friends.


> Foolish mudane scholars cannot understand God and keep
> saying Purusha Sooktam is vaccuum.

Sir, the purport re: purusha sooktam is basis for all varna-s sprang
from head, feet et al is asinine. This has been showed in this
egroup. Of course, you are welcome to succumb to ad populum thesis.



(For any one
> interseted on this topic
> http://www.ramanuja.org/sv/bhakti/archives/mar95/0001.html
> )
> Philosophy of Shunyavadis, Mayavadis and
> Impersonalists is the real vaccuum and it cannot save
> either those philosphors or the ones who follow them
> from the cycle of birth and death.
> People of the above three categories are envious of
> God and hence there is no way they could understand
> Him.

I can discern westernized thinking in the above lines.

a. There are no true/false realities in Indian traditions(unless our
esteemed friend subscribed to secular bible that there is only one
reality)
b. Different people go for different routes; nor does it matter which
path one takes. Understand ancient Indian naastika-s, soonya, maaya
vaada by reading some books on atheism, some engg/sciences. Rancid
rigmarole!


A 'foolish' reddy from realm of Indian theists. Dont worry, my
friend, I have assented to 'I am foolish'. Nor do I need a savior for
my liberating soul.
---==-
GREAT debate! and my reply Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4567 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: GREAT debate! and my reply

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "docsunny50"
wrote:
> forgive me and others if i can't seem to find a position and
> identity in some messages which use complex and
> sophisticated lingo.
> the truth doesn't hide behind colourful language and is as clear
> as sunlight , a sparkling brook ..
> if at all the impression one gathers is that we are resorting to
> demonstration of loquacious vocabulary to hide our
> inconsistencies and contadictions.

I am enlightened by ad hom argument. I would be happy if you show
contradictions and inconsistencies. Vacuity has so far been shown in
the arguments of Purusha sooktam and Buddha.

> finally it is the demonstrable happiness and results seen in a
> community which hold stead not online verbicosity.

> pardon us lesser intellectuals if we don't delve in normative
> ethics , identity crisis and attack rabidly whatever doesn't
> appease us.

Aha, this is what post colonials are teaching in sacred schools,
_Indian culture, Identity politics. My lord, Good and Bad are
secularized variants of God and Devil. Thus far what is being tried
to shown is my morally bad or good. I am not a christian to accept
this profundity.


>atleast we have a identity and rather see the truth
> for what it matter and work towards a better society .

Believe in Lord God; and brahmins are obstructing relation b/w God
and Man(Protestant Polemic).


> all this reminds me of a sanskrit saying " panditha pandithaan
> drushtvaa shwaana viva gur guraayathe"
> finally i would humbly suggest more reading of first century
> palestine , evolution of ecclestialogy before one resorts to
> general rage and verbal attacks.

Arrant drivel. Trying to understand Samskrita, Telugu, Kannada thru
Anglicized notions is not my way. Yeah, Modern Athens is closer to
Jerusalem, joining are the drove of reformers!

Nor do I like to join Jerusalem route. May Lord God bless the
reformers.
---===---
MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4547 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Srinivas wrote:
>
> Belief Systems certainly make an impact, which can debilitate the
>neural system. Two sided sword rather, cruising through mining.

This can be noticed in Artificial Intelligence, machine learning.
Phenomenonically, beliefs and actions are related as though our
observance of sunset/sunrise makes us to believe that sun is moving
around earth. Till today, any observational discepancy in pre-Galileo
and post-Galileo world cant be noticed. Our christian brethern
assumed that the phenomenon is reality. Galileo stepped in and
downgraded the status of 'reality that Geo-centric is' into
phenomenon; yet we see geo-centric phenomenon. We are compelled to
see this phenomenon because of earth moving around sun. So the
reality is different from what we see.

Thanks to christianity, christian theological debates are
secularized; thats why western scientists assent to meta-physical
assumption: there is *only one* reality.

Thats not the case in Indian traditions. Assume that there are
multiple realities, say of, r1 and r2 and r3.

r1: reality1( phenomenal level): our observation of sun outside: sun
moving around earth

r2: reality2(reality in secularized christian word):Earth moving
around Sun

r3: relaity3(the ultimate reality): r1 + r2; we are compelled to see
r1, for r2.

Idem for belief-action thing:

reality1: our actions are related to beliefs we hold
reality2: r1, for r2
reality3: r1 + r2.

In human psychology, epistemology in West and Westernized traditions
where there is *only one* reality, folks are at biblical level
(reality1) unlike ancient indians at r3.

Here, Indian traditions tell that it is not the case if we agree to
analogy of geocentric-heliocentric. Reductionists give clue that
intentional psychology is not scientific; but there are in a position
to give alternate theory. Thats why we cant stop dream when we read
the tracts of reductionists.




> The society where cosmopolitan culture plunges into adverse philes
>of contemplation, act of 'karma' need to be understood. Embodiments
>of virile nature inflicts the 'dharma' reign. 'karma yogi' needs
>much more attention than 'dharma bhogi'

Saraswati Sindhu civilization was urbanized; Ramayana times, say,
7000 BCE was kinda rural(lord Sri Raama had ruled an area that of 5
mandals in AP).

I dont see any problem in aping things, after all, everybody is after
happiness; nor am I against appeasing senses. So many Indian
traditions cohere and coexist at various reality levels. There is no
truth/false/only one reality things. The post-18cy Indian hindoo
tribe is christianized inasmuch as they dont need to accept Jesus as
their savior. Consequently, We, the 21st cy hindoos, are trying to
understand ancients in the epistemology given by West and
Westernized. This is the root cause of Indian problems. I am rather
calling for 'scientific' understanding of our traditions vis-a-vis
West. This tells us where we stand.

On Dharma: 'Freedom and choice' is the presupposition of secularized
christian mores. And 21st cy hindoo and his secularized christian in
the West says that there are no morals iff disavowing freedom and
choice. In Indian traditions, there are morals iff determinism
exists. This determinism is provided by the means of karma,
punarjanma. We dont need to believe in punarjanma things; it rather
provides practical solutions.
----------------ljlkl--------------------------------
GREAT debate! and my reply Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4542 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: GREAT debate! and my reply

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Srinivas Reddy Palakala
wrote:
> We will join you if you are a better swami! I don't
> think this is the answer to my question. Word jugglery
> and writing in a way where the messages can't be
> reached to not even 0.1 % of the public doesn't make
> your education a better one!!

Where did you learn this moral language. Of course, your seperating
of my comment('fact') from norm(universal moral norm: ought not to
call somebody this) cleary indicates another phenomenon that I was
talking of. Prove me that my comments are immoral, of course, in
context dependent norms, where the aforesaid marker does not play
role.

Atleast, this issue can be settled thru your learnt ways of talking
principles and mores.


> Isa—by the Lord; avaasyam—controlled;

False purport, unless ISKCON baba-s are casting meanings. So,
everybody in this egroup know when to cast two objects, variables.
Similary, semantics has its domain, called modal universe(dont accuse
me saying that I am showing some knowledge). Here the modal universes
are incompatible.


> It's interesting people quote from BhagvadGita about
> soul and it's characteristics, knowing well who spoke
> it and then come to a conclusion that "God is
> Christian" and I am God!.

Standard ISKCON line. Veda-s declare yatO vAchO nivartantE, aprApya
manasA saha - god of the Veda-s did or does not wisper in the ears of
self-chosen few, not in man's image, nor send messengers as to how
mankind should seek. For any of us sunken in semite God,
Veda-s and Vedic practice are ho-ho-ho primitive ritual stuff.
Read 'Chando Darshana' by Rishi Daivaraata, Motilal Banarsi Das in
which the said rishi went through yoga samadhi process, gave 450 riks
in 1970-s. I dont see any God speaking here that you are comfortable
speaking of.



> Translating scriptures and
> the vedic knowledge in a way common man understands
> doesn't mean "Christianization".

Today, I was in a book store; found a book by Srila Prabhu Paada
talking of various western philosophers Marx, Augustine, Aquinas.
Now I can see the profundity of scholarship in discussing
of "finding meaning in life by these semitized transformers."

Just re-describe actions in your life in a pattern where meaning is
found. This is not the case w/ Indian epistemology. Learn Science and
translate them in English, apply objective methologies of
Christianity by making it meta-level methods.


> There is only one God
> though he may appear as Jesus, Allah, Rama, Krishna
> etc with different names depending on place, time and
> cirumstance.

Christianity, Islam, Judaism does not God, scriptures, prophets by
virtue of they being religions. Religion is an instance of
explanatory-intelligible account of cosmos and itself.

Only One God, where did it say in Indic works unless thse modern
swamis hv been making truths by casting an equation to christianity.

> Leave the 18th cy stuff and go back to
> initial Shankracharya period and that is what my
> perception of the purpose of human life is:
> "bhaja govindam bhaja govindam bhaja govindam
> mudha-mate."

Besides, the same Shankara's notion is that feeling/thinking that we
are 'the experiencers' is itself an expression of ignorance. (Aham
BhOjanm naiva BhOjyam na bhOkta: I am neither food, nor the act of
eating nor even the eater.) The common-sense notion of
'experiencer' requires the notion of Agency. Sahnkara's
Vivekachudamani's notion of 'ignorance' is at odds with out
common-sense notion of ignorance as absence of information.


Translate and abuse every writing in the name of spirituality without
making it 'maximal consistent'.



>
> BG 10.8
> aham sarvasya prabhavo
> mattah sarvam pravartate
> iti matvaa bhajante maam
> budhaa bhaava-samanvitaah
>
> I think we don't need the translation here, it might
> be called one more "Christianized" thing If I did so..

It is not about posting some samskrita text; it is more of making it
in 21st cy language.
------------------------jjjkjk0----
Search: Advanced Start Topic
MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4530 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Srinivas wrote:

> Was that www.sacred-texts.com

The importance of texts in religions that christianity, islam,
judaims are is need to be understood before branding puraana-s,
upanishad-s, brahmana-s, aranyaka-s, jataka tales etc of Indian
traditions as 'sacred texts or scriptures'.

In secularized religious culture that western culture is an example
of, sacred books are filled up with beliefs that Indian heathen
holds. These religions that christianity,islam, judaism are based on
epistemological/cognitive assumption that 'human actions are
embodiments of beliefs'

Thats why we are seeing posters of cars(?) in modern living rooms,
for atheists(secularized christians, scientists, philosophers) talk
of 'what interceds b/w acting and willing/intending'. If we were to
look carefully in the dialogues of so-called pure and scientific
products, their desideraturum = explananus.


Presuppose that Indians got belief system, and fill the gaps in
argumentation chain(explananus).




> www.theosociety.org

HP Blavatsky, Ann Besant, or modern man 'converted' to 'hinduism'
have been wearing same belief-based cloths. Read fantasies of Madam
Blavatsky in her "Secret Doctrine" with wax eloquence. Blavatsky was
responsbile for semitising Indian traditions among western public
apart from Indology, social theorists of modern scholarship.

> Just kidding......
>
> would like to know your last name, in case it starts with an A

Annem
------------------jkklklkl--------------------
GREAT debate! and my reply Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4529 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: GREAT debate! and my reply

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Srinivas Reddy Palakala
wrote:
> >The output is "Hinduism-a-belief-system". And
> >missionary claims that
> >hindu beliefs are false. And these political bastards
> >in BJP, congy,
>
> According to what principle these people of congress
> and BJP are bastards???

Join with some international hindu swaamis/Indian politicaldom based
on christian values, reciting 'Hinduism, a religion, a belief
system'.

Oh, priniciples, thanks to our education, now we got norms.


> >If this process were to continue in India, on some
> day
> >in future, Venkateswara, Siva, Rama, Krishna should
> >become Christian names without any transformations,
> >the fulfillment of Vedas is Jesus the Christ. Of
> >course, the ISKCON, "Global dharma conferences",
> >"Inter faith dailogues" are abetting this process
> >without being aware of what is going on.
>
> This is damn nonsense. I think these issues should be
> debated directly in those conferences you mentioned
> and you would have a better opportunity to prove your
> point.

My questions re: Him, God, Controller, Intentions, Order have went
unanswered. Please tell us the dhaatu from which poornam(part of the
stanza and interpretation by ISKON that you quoted) sprouts.
Cognitive difference should be noted when we map words like deva,
brahma etc across cultures, languages, traditions. No wonder,
Ramakrishana mission, ISKCON have been semitised inasmuch as
assenting to "knowledge is textual", which was key for Christian
polemics agnst Roman Pagans.

Of courses, hindoos/Indian seculars are darn blind when comes to
Semite religious traditions. And some hindu patriots have already
repeated that December25th(Christmas) was appropriated from Roman
Pagans. It is very far from being appropriation[1]

My writing of above text that you are trying to rebut is part
of "secularization of religion". Please put across
alternative 'science of religion' before raving.

Or 'belive in' post-18th cy Indian hindoo God gotten
intentions/controllers; however, sacred gospel puts
elegantly: "Devils do 'believe'[2] God, but tremble at Him."


[1] Ramsay MacMullen, Christianizing the Roman Empire (A.D. 100-400),
Yale Univ Press.
[2] There is huge a difference between 'believe' and 'believe in';
heretics exist where there are belief systems. I never noticed any
heretics in Indian traditions esp pre-18th cy Indian writings.
-------------ljljlk-
GREAT debate! and my reply Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4509 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: GREAT debate! and my reply

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Srinivas Reddy Palakala
wrote:
> I never knew this: "God is internal to
> Christianity"!!!!

Before getting into references, cross-references, a standard feature
of web vedantins wallowing in westernized philosophy in disguise.

Please tell us about notion of God by not rendering some silly
translations with God, Godhead, Him, His, Himself, rather than
sparring on mayavaada et al.



> I totally disagree with the foolish Mayavadic GAS
> controlling universe and "I AM GOD" concept. "ZERO"
> cannot control something. There has to be a controller
> and He should be complete in Himself. No living entity
> is independent, atleast I haven't seen such living
> entity that is totally independent and not being
> controlled.

There has to be a controller, he is outside of this created cosmos,
and His intentions = Causes! I am not yet christened to digest these
18th cy primitive notions, Whoa@!





> om purnam adah purnam idam
> purnaat purnam udacyate
> purnasya purnam adaaya
> purnam evavasisyate


Some interesting observations in this interpretation are:

Personality, Godhead, Perfect, Complete, Him, Phenomenal World,
Complete Whole.






> "The Personality of Godhead is perfect and complete,
> and because He is completely perfect, all emanations
> from Him, such as this phenomenal world, are perfectly
> equipped as complete wholes. Whatever is produced of
> the Complete Whole is also complete in itself. Because
> He is the Complete Whole, even though so many complete
> units emanate from Him, He remains the complete
> balance."
--k--------------
MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA Message List
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Re: MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Udaya Bhaskar Reddy
wrote:
>
> According to what I know Budha was pre christ some
> 3000 years before and budhism was widely spread by
> Asoka the conquerer...

I was speaking of religion that 'Buddhism' is. Various religions such
as Hinduism, Buddism, Jainism, Sikhism were created by Christian
theologians in the West, for Christianity had failed to christen
whole India and India was not Roman empire.

Whatever I wrote wont make sense because of our common sense notions
are theological presuppositions that modern man is assenting to.

Buddha is of c. 1800 BCE. Ashoka is noway related to Buddha, another
screwup by secular christian scholar ship that Indology and social
theorists are.


> Are you saying that budhism was rediscoved by west in
> 1800 ?

Tradition is ancestral practice that are not truth functional.
Millions of practices cohere; taking good practices by social
interactions by a) marriage b) group c) village d) nearest jaatara-s
e)trade et al. The common platform is Yogaabhaayasa. Even ancient
Indian naastikas do practice yoga. Modern atheist is de-christianized
christian but not closer to ancient indian naastika.

By marrying, one is continuing his/her spouse ancestral practice; By
immigrating to other village, one practices the local village
traditions(jaatara-s, devara-s, tirunaala-s, abhisheka-s, graama
devata-s such as various mallamas, polerammas, ankalaamas, etc)

In this way, Indian mithra traditions were carried to Ancient Pagan
Rome by trade. This is all but proslytization that Christianity, Islam
(extirpating infidels), Judaism(it did proselytize c. 2nd temple era)
expansion processes are.


I can offer pooja to my familay deva, for I rever my parents, grand
parents etc. This practice(pooja) is independent of belief I hold
about the deva/devata.


>
> In the process of replying I myself did discover some
> logic and the thought process was healthy...

No problems. The enthymemes that are being learned in post-Islam
India have their roots in Islam, Christianity.

The modern Indian men learnt ways of speaking/talking/mouthing are
hindering reaccess to Indian traditions.




> So end of the day... what is the take on where india
> is and what is the presciption/ prediction one can
> make ...
> those 4 points appear more of analysis of the past or
> current behaviour or axioms...


Modern Indians are more into Science but not human science that their
ancestors into. Christianity needs science; that there exists an
order/ scientific order needs to be (dis)proved for de-christendom.
Asiatic force plays role in (in)validating de-christianized truths.

One can notice these in hollywood creations: fighting against order;
evil; devil; new world order. These are all exported from
Christianity. Thanks to this christian influence, our raakshasas in
Indian history haven been portrayed as monsters, breasty animals.
This is how educated Indian feels of raaskshas. Indian cognitive
experice is de-christianized in nature. Our raakshasas are as good as
our deva-s. They are not breasts, nor devils.

A relevant discussion that had taken place is posted below:

[Quote]

Instead, let me recount a story taken from the Chandogya Upanishad.

It appears Prajapathi said that he who has found the 'Self' (Atman)
and understands it obtains all worlds and all desires. "The Devas and
the Asuras both heard these words, and said: 'Well, let us search for
that Self by which, if one has searched it out, all worlds and all
desires are obtained'. Thus saying Indra from the Devas, Virochana
from the Asuras, and both without having communicated with each
other, approached Prajapathi… They dwelt there as pupils for thirty-
two years. Then Prajapathi asked them: 'For what purpose have you
both dwelt here?' They both replied: 'A saying of yours is being
repeated … Now we have both dwelt here because we wish for that
Self'." He makes them both look in a pan of water and asks them what
they see. They see their own bodies reflected. He makes them dress up
and look again into the water pan asks them what they see. "They
said: 'Just as we are, well adorned, with our best clothes and clean,
thus we are both there, Sir, well adorned, with our best clothes and
clean.' Prajapathi said: "That is the Self, this is the immortal, the
fearless, this is the Brahman'. They both went away satisfied in
their hearts." Prajapathi reflects on their absence of critical
thought and thinks that whichever of the two follows this line of
thought will 'perish'. The story continues: "Now Virochana, satisfied
in his heart, went to the Asuras and preached that doctrine to them,
that the self (the body) alone is to be worshipped, that the self
(the body) alone is to be served, and that he who worships the self
and serves the self, gains both worlds, this and the next."[i] The
Story further continues about what Indra did, but that is not
relevant to me now. What are the three obvious points in the story:

1. Both the Ausuras and the Devas seek enlightenment. Quite
obviously, as this story makes clear, this state does not consist
of 'believing in' some deva or the other for the simple reason that
they, the devas, thirst after enlightenment too! Further, to reach
this state, as it becomes evident when we follow the story further,
no 'grace' of any kind of 'God' is required: one needs to think
through. (The Indian traditions speak of any number of other ways
too, but that need not detain us here.) From this it follows that
one's enlightenment is the result of one's own effort. It is a
deserved 'reward' that is in proportion to the effort you put in.
Between you and the enlightenment, which is the ultimate goal in
life, no one or no thing can counteract your efforts.

2. Virochana's insight that the body requires worshipping because it
is the 'Self' is a wrong answer because it is superficial. The
answer, however, is not false. As the story evolves further, the
reader appreciates that the Asura's answer is superficial because
Indra is provided with a 'deeper' answer. Some answer is superficial
only relative to a deeper one but that does not make the former into
a false answer. Virochana's insight appears as materialistic and
as 'atheistic' as they come: yet, the story seems to condone it as a
possible answer (though wrong and superficial) to seek enlightenment.
(This answer will not 'help' and that is why it is wrong.) The
discovery that all there is to life is the life one has, or the body
one has, does not rob an Indian of anything. Very sharply put: in the
Indian traditions, 'atheism' (of a particular sort, see below) can
also be a way of reaching enlightenment. (We are not yet talking
about 'Buddhism'!) This claim is not even remotely similar to the
shock of 'discovering' (in the western culture) that 'God is dead'.

3. What kind of 'atheism' am I talking about? Not Western atheism
because that makes no sense to the Indian traditions because of two
things: (a) As the story above suggests, the road to 'enlightenment'
does not go through Jerusalem. That is, Prajapthi does not tell Indra
that he should 'believe' in 'God' in order to be enlightened. (b)
Consequently, Indian traditions are not 'theistic' (poly-, heno- or
mono- or whatever) the way Judaism, Christianity and Islam are.
Consequently, western forms of 'atheism' do not have the western kind
of a theistic doctrine to oppose, when they come to India.

You might object that the distinction drawn I have drawn above
between the 'wrong' answer and the 'false' one is a quibble about the
meaning of words. It is not: there is a cognitive issue involved
here. When one has a false answer, one can know that it is false and,
perhaps, even localise its falsity. To reject a false answer, one
does not need the presence of an alternative answer. This is not the
case with a wrong answer. One might 'feel' that something is wrong
without being able to say what is wrong or even reject the wrong
answer. (Look at what I have been saying throughout this
communication.) One needs the presence of an alternative and a better
answer in order to say what was wrong with the 'wrong answer' and
reject it.

4. The contrast between our Asuras and the Devil in the Bible cannot
be greater. Even though, in the classical but simple interpretation,
the Devil himself is a fallen angel, he does not believe in God, but
merely acknowledges His existence. As the Gospel puts it, "Thou
believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also
believe, and tremble" (James 2: 26; my emphasis.) The Devil makes us
deny the 'true' God, says the religion that Christianity is. God
reveals Himself to save us from the 'clutches' of the Devil, it
assures us further. To become an atheist in the West is to
loose 'faith' in this revelation. Where is this 'atheism' and where
our traditions? Where is the Devil, and where our Asuras?

Thus, our Asuras are not like the Devil or his minions in the Bible.
Not only do they seek 'enlightenment', as the above story makes it
clear, but some of them are also the greatest of the bhaktas of our
devatas. The reason why Rama was born, they say, was to kill Ravana --
a supreme Bhakta. He deserved not to die in any way other than by
being slain by Vishnu himself. To this day, we celebrate the greatest
king (an asura) we ever had, and the greatest bhakta who ever lives:
Lord Bali (an immortal) on whose head Trivikrama (Vaamana, as he is
also called) placed his third foot. Each year, it appears, he ascends
from the bottom of the earth to find out how his subjects are faring:
the streets are lit as our houses with their doors open, so that he
may come in and feel welcomed. We call this the festival of lights,
the Deepavali. You know all this. Why do I tell it to you then? It is
to say that our 'atheisms', our 'asuras', the 'immorality' of our
devas do not rob us of our traditions the way atheism does rob a
believer in the West. Devatas may die, be born again, punished, or
even remain immortal: our traditions do not suffer from any of these
but live on precisely because of these. Consequently, today, without
rejecting any piece of knowledge I have ever learnt, I can access my
traditions and my experience in a very profound way. That is why,
Jeffrey Kripal, you would be wrong to say that what I felt when I was
fourteen is what the believer feels when he looses his faith in the
God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. This is another process altogether.

[EndQuote]


Simply as we put, the modern human psychology is not Scientific(
reductionists in social sciences affirm this unscientific nature).
Here Indian traditions step in. This scientific answer known by
master yogis is ultimate reality.

What is this ultimate reality:

[Quote]

they would find the world (as it is) indescribable. What is
describable would be `true' only to the extent the illusion about the
world is a necessary one. That is, they would think that the
description of the world is both true and false. The world "as it
really is" cannot be described by language and only the illusory
world
is so describable. However, because they think that the `truth' about
the world *is* the realization about the necessity of illusion, they
would have to be more concerned about the *role* of language in
leading from the world of illusion to the realization about its
illusory nature.

[Unquote]


This is the reason for their indifference. That they were not into
things that we are sunk into projects, ambitions, degrees, Ph.D-s,
goals, deadlines, impasse, passe, deadlocks, mental agitation.
Towards this goal, pauranikaas helped to explain to masses. And the
modern idiots talking of Brahmins hindered harijans/shoodras dont
know, thus, what Indian traditions are about.


And those who talk of Christ-as-a-yogi are also displaying bottemless
ignorance, for religious experience that christians do is structured.
These structured experienced are intentional explanations. Number of
intentional explanations are inversly proportional to causal
explanations(science). The difference b/w religion and Indian
traditions is that b/w dream and reality.

The so called 21st cy Indian man is dreaming, thanks to Lord God!
----kj-
GREAT debate! and my reply Message List
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RE: GREAT debate! and my reply


> Good to know someone has taken pains to read Rig
Veda
> and its importance to Indian history... The point
here
> is why is it not imparted in primary/high/college/
> whatsoever education...
> Why should it be accessible in translated/truncated
> English form...
> Or should everyone get the energy to learn Sanskrit
> and try to access these books and read and try to
make
> meaning out of them..
> Looks daunting for a normal 'educated'Indian.

Well, the purpose of ancient gurukula is antipodal to
modern theology schools and their sister scientific
institutions in the West(all western universities were
descended from theology schools). Theology schools
have been producing ministers, priests(roman catholic
variety), evalengicals, missionaries.

Pedagogy in Ancient gurukula-s in India: The following
was written by a friend, pasting for what they are
after:

"Teaching its six darshana-s was common in ancient
India's gurukula-s and schools, be they Vedic,
Bauddha, or Jaina. With aananda (and aananda or
Moksha) as the self evident human life pursuit, the
ancient sages modelled a pedagogy to reach or
experience moksha and real aananda in everyone's
mundane life as well. I propose that the six
darshana-s were the result and eventually means of
this pedagogy. We look at the six darshana-s in the
order of sAKhya, yOga, nyAya, vaishEshika, pUrva
mImAmsa, and uttara mImAmsa as the six successive
steps, not as various or divergent schools, in ancient
Gurukula pedagogy. Typically, they were all taught in
the same gurukula school. Ancient sages surmised from
the Veda-s that "That One Indivisible Indescribable
Divinity ever exists in everyone and everything
everywhere; Its nature is immutable, omniscient, and
bliss (sat-chit-Ananda); experiencing It is the real
lasting happiness and is the purpose of our lives".
Thus r`Si Kapila's sAKhya of learning about this
material world and universe (prakr`ti) fully occupied
by Divinity (PuruSa) is the first step in this
learning process. The next step is sage Patanjali's
yOga - a systematic way of proving the existence of
puruSa in us and in every material through its eight
indivisible limbs. Through the daily practices of
yama-niyama-Asana-prANAyAma-pratyAhAra and the
techniques of DhAraNa and DhyAna, the student learns
to reach samADhi and verify teacher's claim.
Succeeding in this step is crucial to usher in harmony
and happiness, and to properly grasp the next steps.
nyAya and vaishEshika develop intellectual logic and
rigor, and its limitations, needed to establish facts
and know truth. All along, seeking That Divinity is
not forgotten nor ignored. Thus the logical tools
(shruti, pratyakSa, upamA, anumAnaH) to verify the
relationship among prakr`ti, PuruSa, Dharma, Atman,
and ParamAtman are mastered. In the fifth step of
pUrva mImAmsa, dealing with karma section of the
Veda-s and the daily living practices, student learns
and fashions his/her life so as to reach That goal in
this very life. This practice goes hand-in-hand with
yOga's pratyAhAra, of turning the mind towards
Divinity. After the studies, the student would live
through family life thus and support the society in
line with Dharma. Then student is exposed to uttara
mImAmsa or the science of Vedanta in the sixth step,
which he/she shall utilize in later life to his
benefit and also to teach the full pedagogy to younger
generations. A wholesome re-examination of these
darshana-s in this light is relevant for understanding
Indian traditions. The points of differences from one
step to another are pedagogical needs only just as
Bohr's atomic model taught in science high schools is
highly at variance from particle physics of graduate
school."

In the above paras, yogaabhyaasa is underscored. These
are all products of human endevours. 'Nothing is
divine there' or 'everything is divine'




> I guess one is trying to define what is good here...
> and certainly being secular is not one.... as it is
> equally as fanatic as muslim fundamentalists are...

Religion is a phenomenonon that is not cultural
universal. Christianity has profoundly influenced
Western Culture. Different people on different parts
experience(cognitive phenomena) the world differently.
The antithetical are practice-based traditions(praxy)
and belief-based systems(doxy). The latter group
produces more theoritical knowledge, subordinating
practice. In other words, their experience is
structured(theorized before experiencing as is). Such
culture is modern one that we are in. Except
Christianity, Islam, Judaism, all human
traditions(simply put, ancestral practices given by
their forefathers) on the earth are practical in
nature.

By virtue of being born in a culture that has been
influenced by religion that christianity, islam,
judaism are, one tends to be either one of or
severally conjoined, fundamentalistic, religious
fanatic, secular, neutral, sacred, profane, atheist,
theist, agnostic.

And it is nature of religion that christianity, islam,
judaism are to put other practices, traditions as
"rival belief systems", "rival religions".

In this process born were religions such as
"Hinduism", "Jainism", "Buddism" in the West that
modern man is so weltering in. And these bastard
putras/putris/theologians and their modern descendants
in social sciences depts on the earth rendered all
practical traditions from Africa via India to native
Indians as belief systems due to the culture they sunk
in. Also, modern hindoos and the western hindus are
strcuturing their actions/experiences as though they
are in belief systems.


> as Venkateshawara Reddy puts it... it is asiatic
mode
> of christianization....

Religion expands in two ways:

a) Proselytization: by telling Indian heathen that his
actions are embodiments of beliefs(modern psychology
is spinning around this thesis). So this step is aided
by Indian social scientists and their
christian/scientific fathers in west by Indology,
Social theorys, deontic logics. The output is
"Hinduism-a-belief-system". And missionary claims that
hindu beliefs are false. And these political bastards
in BJP, congy, commie mouth these truths by taking
various positions: tolerant belief system, intolerant
belief systems. Thanks to discontinuities in our
traditions, modern education, proselytization is easy
because the modern hindoo tribe accepts their
psychology(belief-action relation) and assent to the
fact that Hinduism[sic] is a tolerant belief system

b) Secularization: This is antipodal expansion process
that proselytization is. Christian theological debates
are carried forward to meta-level. Thus meta-language
= object language. So all European lingos are
functioning as meta-lingos. So other traditions and
their practices are discussed in this framework. This
is *empirical* immpossibility due to religion that
christianity is. Simply put, all christian historical
movements since christenization of Roman empire are
mapped onto all other cultures, for our modern
intelligentia is well versed in their languages,
religions and is granting "univeral status" to the
cognitive experiences of western culture thats been
influenced by christianity.

In process b), we are not accepting Jesus as our
savior, nor do we have our baptisms yet. But we are
trasnforming our traditions into belief systems, God,
scriptures and sundry bull crap.





> Because of this secularization... one is turning
> agnostic and atheist ... and shying away from
knowing
> Hindu as hindu religion is...

The word 'hindu' given by persians in the form of
Al-Hind(people living east off Sindhu RIver) is
probably 1000 years Old. Islam being an instance of
religion gave us "Hindoos(east off sindhu river) have
belief system; hindoos belief system is false, islam
is true"

This force is trickled down to every part of India.
Another Sad story.


Take a simple categorical proposition:

"Christianity is a True Religion"

Let us look at closely at the category that 'true
religion' is. Here found is attributive adjective that
'true' is. By predicating this adjective, 'Religion
is True' can be discerned.

What the heck is True? Whatever theories available in
market place, mouthed by Indian lawyers, judges,
politicians are stripped down versions of Christian
theology, first by removing attributive adjective
'truth' and plularizing 'religion'. These theories are
intelligible aganist Christianity background. 2000
years of Christian scholarship on Greeco-Roman culture
and 300 years on Indian culture can be made sense
against christianity background.

What happen when thse common sense
notions/pretheoritical notions/presuppositions are
proved false?

This is proved scientifically. But the modern scientic
schools that are de-christianized in nature are not
interested in pursue research in this direction.







> Secondly... the world is getting so tuned towards
the
> west now centered around the US that it is killing
> the cultures across the globe...

Who are thse 21st cy European liberals, commies,
seculars, conservatives? Their forebears are pagans
once. It is a process of domesticating heathens.
England got christianity c. 600 AD. The last
conversion took place in Europe is about 1300 AD.

If this process were to continue in India, on some day
in future, Venkateswara, Siva, Rama, Krishna should
become Christian names without any transformations,
the fulfillment of Vedas is Jesus the Christ. Of
course, the ISKCON, "Global dharma conferences",
"Inter faith dailogues" are abetting this process
without being aware of what is going on.

All social sciences from political philosophy to
management courses taught in sacred IIMs in India are
products of de-christianization.
---klllk----
GREAT debate! and my reply Message List
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RE: GREAT debate! and my reply

First, I apologize for stepping on toes.


> kalau südra-sambhavaha “In this Age of Kali,
everyone
> is born a südra.”

purusha sooktam clearly states that whole manifest is
soodra irrespective of yuga, manvantara, brahma
ahoraatri, vishnua ahoraatri etc.


> Unless one is elevated to the
> platform of Braahman through the right process
> prescribed in vedas no one can become a Brahman.

The practices are not truth-functional. Indian
traditions are refrained about "right/wrong
processes". Those who toeing this
line--right/wrong/neutral-- are succumbed to
christendom. The polemics in our traditions have been
on "which tradition is better". Some traditions are
considered apt for a particular kind of people but not
for others; some paths are considered inferior because
one needs to renounce the world to follow them; others
are considered inferior because one keeps on living in

the world while following them; some are considered
inferior because they focus on the senses; others are
considered inferior because they deprive the senses,
etc.

Reading Bhagavata purana, sitting in sacred
university, the modern indian is structuring his
actions. Amen, is this spirituality? darn nonsense.



> The instruction we receive from this incident is
that
> King Bahuläsva and Srutadeva the brahmana were
> accepted by the Lord on the same level because both
> were pure devotees. This is the real qualification
for
> being recognized by the Supreme Personality of
> Godhead.

Join with another manifestation of Supreme Personality
of Godhead, the Christ.


> Because it has become the fashion of this age
> to be falsely proud of having taken birth in the
> family of a ksatriya or a brähmana, we see persons
> without any qualification other than birth claiming
to
> be a brähmana or ksatriya or vaisya.

One can be proud of their parents, forefathers.
Nothing wrong with it. The polemics have been centred
on 'who is true brahmin/kshatriya/soodra/vaishya',
which does not entail that those who claim themselves
as brahmin/kshatritiya et al are fradulent.


> But as stated in
> the scriptures,

Scriptures, when have modern hindoos got the latter?

Can't one be heathen without reading the so-called
"scriptures" the ISKCON and angreji hindoo
organizations spreading.



> kalau südra-sambhavaha “In this Age of
> Kali, everyone is born a südra.”

The so called pauraanika naatakas are products of
puraanas. Having mastered puraana-s, remebering whole
veda-s by rote, or analyzing word by word are not
considered to be attributes of having adhikaara. This
has been discussed widely.


> This is because there
> is no performance of the purificatory processes
known
> as samskäras, which begin from the time of the
> mother’s pregnancy and continue up to the point of
the
> individual’s death.

Yogic saadhana is very important. This abhyaasa is not
"structured experience" that every modern man mouths
when being asked of "why/how of his actions"

The practioners in Sramana traditions wont engage in
these shodasa karmas. That is, I can perform
shradda-s, karma-s etc for my forefathers; yet I can
undergo yoga, but not upanayana et al.



> The so-called brähmanas, ksatriyas and vaisyas have
> forgotten their traditional activities, and in the
> absence of these activities they are called südras.

It is not the question of forgetting. The modern man
is striving for understanding(why is he doing so can
be understood if one study christianity) black holes,
neural n/w learning algos, conscientious computers
rather than studying the animals that we humans are;
yet we tout ourselves logical, progressive, rational,
purgatory, purificational nonse. I am dumbfounded when
modern hindoos take defensive position re: indian
traditions(I dont subscribe to *ism-ic philosophy that
ISKCON, BJP, VHP junkies spreading christian values;
sometimes, I do defend this fringe on different
grounds)



> My dear friend don't be misled by foolish and
> contaminated western philosophy!


> As long as human being thinks he is the controller
of
> the world, no "ism" is going to work. Everything
> leads to disaster.

My dear sir, *isms are tied to beliefs/dogmas. Thats
why Hinduism got scriptures, beliefs. Get a Ph. D from
'Pure and Scientific University' and proclaim that
grand unified theory = God, Godhead that Newton,
Descarets, Einstein et al spoke of. This is where
modern Indian is heading without understading the
practical systems that Indian traditions are.

> When we try to understand and follow the
> VEDAs as spoken by the God,

I beg to disagree. Vedas are shruti, but not
revelation that the modern morons preaching on behalf
of Hinduism, a marvelous entity given by our masters.


That is, the notion of deva, various brahmas, various
vishnus are antipodal to that ISKCON, modern angreji
books portray of.

Even the so-called harijan/dalit for whom our
docsunny50 and his brethern/sisters are fighting for
can try to become Rishi in this life, in this yuga
only. The key is Samhitopaasana, yoga samaadhi.

That God is outside of cosmos and created the latter
is the notion the modern hindoo, christian, atheist(he
wont call it as God, but rather says of order or
another scientific term), theist picks up.




> who is the controller of
> the living and non living, there will be brotherly
> hood, peace and what ever good we can think of.

The daivatva is inside of every manifest
matter(Bhu)-energy(Bhuva) ensemble. Controller, God,
Devil are internel to Christianity.

> When few countries or groups act as controller of
the
> world there will be no peace but disaster. If every
> once can understand and apply the above simple
> principle there will be no corruption, crime,
illegal
> occupation etc etc.

The problem is with not understanding human
psychology. This was what Ancient Indians known. This
gives clue as to why they were indifferent.
Masculineness of Christianity is metamorphised into
"economic prowess", "relation b/w action and belief".
And the modern Indian Hindoo is not understanding what
their ancestors said; yet he transforms their sayings
to "masculine process"





> VEDAs are so powerful, all the
> knowledge to live in this society, what are the Dos
> and Don'ts are all there.

arrant non sense. Do's and Don'ts are borrwed from
Western Normative Ethics. Being purified and
scientified by 21st century sciences, modern Indian is
commuting Indian knowledge to scientific mode where
theology is presupposed.

There are no dos and do-not-s in Vedas.


> But we are very ignorant and
> foolish that we try to mimic cultureless west and
> their useless philosophies!

I am flummoxed.
---------------------kkllkl-----------------
GREAT debate! and my reply Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4469 of 36151 < Prev | Next >
Re: GREAT debate! and my reply

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "docsunny50"
wrote:

> they infact share my views!

Of course, the so-called Brahmins esp Secular Educated + experts in
Samskrita I know sunk in Belief/Doctrinal systems. These folks are
also under 'colonial experience', a cognitive term. This brahmin
tribe is unfit for being 'true' Soodra. I am yet to find 'true'
soodra on the earth, forget about all 3 varna-s.


>the fight and intiative is against
> divisions and lack of unity and identity.

Is not this what Gandhi or thinkers of Indian Independence movement
said?

"How could a few thousand conquer a nation of millions, if we were
not weak?"

To understand this presupposition, we need to take recourse in
Theological History but not stripped down versions appear in our
social sciences books.

Tolerance is civic virtue in 'Secularized religions' where we see
liberals, cons, neocons, atheists, agnostics, all sundry crap that is
discernable in western/westernized philosophical traditions. In India
too, like in most places, different peoples and practices coexist.
However, they are premissed not on tolerance but on indifference.
(The contrast notion here is that of interference.) Neither religious
intolerance nor civic tolerance makes sense in Indian culture.

The so-called unity that Indian thinkers are rehashing makes sound
enough if we were to understand Europe Reformation years.


> iam not a athiest nor intolerant of any religions.

I consent to the fact that you are knowledgeable.
Atheism, 'religious intolerance' are of religions that Xianity,
Islam, Juadiam are. Indians who claim that they are theists,
atheists, or agnostics, or complementary set to latter terms dont
know what Indian traditions are; yet they continue to clamor
about "Caste system, Manusmriti, Vedas". Amen!


> ANYTHING GOOD for the betterment of our country
> INDIA is GOOD for me!

What is the moral force in the word: Good?

> iam not sure you
> have devoted time to understand the evolution of casteism and
> brahminism.

Same old thing; Go and learn about the 'Sramana' and the 'Brahmana'
traditions that co-existed in India for a long time.

You put, 'Casteism and Brahminism are religions': tell me about
religion, My Lord?


>here are some details from manusmrithi:
> According to the Manu Smrithi:

If you were an Indologist, I would not be entertaining these
references to some Indic texts. Be that as it may, the society MS
referring was not secular society where our ethics is normed. Besides
that, Brahmanism, that you are so fond of, is not belief system given
your brahmin friends say it is doctrinal system.

The moral force of English is biblical
that 'forbidden', 'obligatory', 'permissible' are. A quick look at
Deontic logics, understanding of Christianity as a religion would
suffice. Get back to me with Non-normative ethics or Context
Dependent Ethics, which is like Einsteinian Theory.


> A Priest is forbidden to give advice or even food to a Sudra, for
> the ghee (clarified butter) having been offered to the gods, must
> not be eaten by him. He must not give `spiritual counsel to him,'
> nor inform him of the legal expiation of his sin.

There were no priests in India, my friend, that are seen in Roman
Catholicism. The above line is not belief at all. Nor do I see any
spirituality that RK mission, ISKCON frenzied walla-s are so familiar
with. Just look through travel reports of 17th cy Europeans to affirm
whether then Indian traditions are belief based(book-based,
scriptures-based that Christianity is)

Sudra, Priest, gods, spiritual, legal expiation(reminds me of
indulgences in Roman Catholic Church), sin(rofl) are carried the
force of Catholic Christianity here. Our experience is colonial in
nature.

Here is MS 2.13, rendered by another secular Christian that George
Bühler is.

2.13.to those who seek the knowledge of the sacred law the supreme
authority is the revelation (Sruti).

The final authority is shruti, my lord, as MS clearly says. And how
many of these Indian reformers know the period of practices mentioned
in MS?

Glancing thru Bühler's translation, I find 'sacred', 'law', 'supreme
authority', 'revelation' words are christian in nature. Am I bashing
Christianity? No way, I am just seeing how christianity is
penetrating Indian Heathendom the extent to which we are secuarized
christains and inasmuch as our cognitive experience is christian in
nature.


> this. iam tracing the roots of our division.

Just re-read Buddha's dialogues with brahmins in non-christianized
mode, the answers are there you looking for.


> CHARITY SHOULD
> BEGIN AT HOME.

Thats fine.

> Though i feel atleast ,if like minded individuals
> join together and feel we can go beyond caste, religion and feel

standard textbook slogan


> we are all humans and have empathy , stand up against
> corruption[ENCOURAGING CORRUPTION IS AS SINFUL
> AGAINST taking part in it!] we can DO SOMETHING!

There is no such thing as 'moral', 'immoral' norms in Ancient India.
Corruption is sinful: a universal norm, thanks to christianity.
Honest yet engaged in bribery individuals can be seen in India. Moral
dilemma, take a course in cannon law in secular universities.
-----------------------klkllk-----------------------
MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4441 of 36152 < Prev | Next >
Re: MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Udaya Bhaskar Reddy
wrote:
> Thre is certainly a disconnect here. In lay man's
> terms are economy and religion ( christiannity )
> related... and do i read it correctly that since
> economy is product of religion and since all religions
> are equal economic differences dont matter. And
> therefor economy is not the cause of inferior complex
> ?

The commoner knowledge of religion is God, Church, Bible etc. I am
not worshipper of such claims. The logical sphere of Religion is
different. Religion does not need a) God b) Worship c) Prophet d)
Pope e) Bible; but they are rather empirical constraints imposed on
beings that we humans are. Ignorance of my compatriots re: religion--
yeah, they know religion = matham, pantha-- certainly invalidates
what I say. In other words, their knowledge avers the history told by
our masters.

Modern man asks me to demarcate the sphere of Economies and Economics
from Religion. For me, Religion is a learning configuration, 'the way
of going out' in religious culture, what is/was the impetus of these
historical movements in the West that the modern Indian man aware of.
Unless this modern man assumes the driving force needed in Indian
scenario is akin to Western one, alas, a presupposition, it is a
futile business.





>
> Verbiage as one said proving to be a barrier to
> communication. I guess the objective here is to
> communicate... or is an advanced english course
> recommended for readers ?

Of course, you know of conservatives, theology, feudalism. And you
render Indian interpretation, on the contrary the
explanations/philophy/phenomena this diction picked up is local to
the Western culture. It is the nature of Christianity that
metamorphise other cultures as another(contrast notion is other).
This is epistemic impossibility, thanks to religion that christianity
is. Blame who? Ultimately the folks who raise these issues.





>
> "Now every educated knows that economy, science,
> > philosophy, various
> > *isms, religion that christianity is are *not*
> > inextricably
> > intertwined. I dont entertain any presuppositions as
> > such."
>
> But the above sentences are saying otherwise.... Is
> there a theme here ?
> > I dont see any inferiority complex among Indias that
> > you spoke of.
> > Live examples(Buddha fought againt caste system et
> > al) in this egroup
> > contradicts this position.
>
> Budha was from pre colonial era and India was shielded
> to the western world... ( or the history is not known
> to me atleast )

The divison b/w West and Orient is as old as Christianity. Buddhism
was created in Victorian era c. 1800 AD. This process was elegantly
explained by Phil C. Almond in his British Discovery of Buddism.
Hinduism = Roman Catholicism of the East, Buddism = Protestantism.
What is learned is "anotherness, but not otherness"





> So this cannot be used as a proof of contradiction.
>
> And I am not talking about individual psychology. I am
> talking about race/civilization ... which has
> succumbed to another.
>
> > suffering from
> > inferiority. The colonial stories are so sweet that
> > everybody
> > succumbed to because of the transmutation of
> > history. And
> > hindutvavaadis are also ensnarled by these things
> > which can be
> > perceived if you see the debates in the epistemology
> > they agreed.
>
> I am novice and never have an iota of knowledge of
> these debates. Am I not eligible/qualified to be in
> the podium ?

Every newspaper, social sciences journals are full of these debates.
Open to everybody.



> > Beforing concluding this debate, Let me repeat few
> > points:
> >
> > a. There are no religions that christianity, islam,
> > judaism are in
> > India. Till French Enlightenment, Western scholars
> > distinguished that
> > Christianity is a religion and roman cults, Indian
> > traditions are
> > *irreligious*.
>
> So...
>
> >
> > b. The historians, linguists, all sundry
> > scholarschip produced by
> > West and Westernized operate in same
> > epistemological/cognitive
> > framework.
> >
> > c. Well versed in English does not entail
> > understanding the
> > backgrounds of the verbiage that we are damn famliar
> > with.
>
> Is somebody claiming so ?

Brown Sahibs.
-----------------jk-
POPULATION ills proven! my reply! Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4428 of 36152 < Prev | Next >
Re: POPULATION ills proven! my reply!

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "docsunny50"
wrote:
> infact your mails of dissent have indirectly proven my point.

Dissent = indirect proof, folks, please note this 'secular' formulae
in your books.




> first about the aryan inavasion and european documentation of
> history:
> what are our primary indigenous sources to indian history of
> early civilisation:1] vedic scriptures and 2] archaeological
> evidences.

What the heck is meant by scriptures?

Beliefs are embodiments of actions, theologians have been saying for
last 2000 years and secular christians in the name of intentional
psychology reverbarating in scientific fashion. So, the supposed
beliefs of hindus, or vedic aryans that you tout are engrossed in
scriptures. Whoa! It is christianity that claimed Roman cults were
religions(of course rival religions.) And Roman pagans had not
comprehended the phenomenon they confronted. So were Indian heathens.

So that others do have belief systems is the claim of Christianity.
Now these scumbags in the name of social science have been repeating
Christinaity line. Are they doing Theology or Science?


On archeological evidence: Bravado, go and research recent
archeological records. Of course, many seculars in India and their
Indology brethern stigmatize Archealogists like Lal as a supporter of
hindutva.



> each should corroborate with one another to
> establish a cocensus on the history of the period.

Has not the same consensus been echoing that the Indian heathens have
religions too? And hindoos have doctrinal shit and crap. If you have
really 'scientific' temper and capable of grasping 'Philosophy of
Sciences', digest this thesis: "Heathen in His Blindness: Asia, the
West and Dynamic of Religion." And come back to debate in scientific
mode. We can debate on linguistics, psychology et al.




> let's examine
> the indus valley civilisation and it's relation to the rigvedic
> people.

You brand traditionalists as feudalists and invaders. You never even
entertain the ideas: vedas are not products of mind agitation, as
many doctors, engineers thought process falls in the category of
Abrahmic junkies: think, think, think...






>reading of the rig veda imparts us a understanding of the
> reciters reverance to forces of nature[ indra,vayu,agni....] and
> there is no ever mention of shiva,brahma ...whatsoever!

lol, forces of nature. Another funny rendering.


>purusha
> sooktha establishes the identity of caste and division of labor.all
> well for that period but a appalling and ugly inheritance for us
> today!

Here is the corresponding Purusha Sookta stanza that you are so proud
quoting of:

brAhmaNo asya mukhamAseet bAhoo rAjanya: krta:
ooru tadasya yad vaishya padbhyAm shoodro ajAyata

I repeat, Indian traditions are not belief systems/doctrinal systems
that Christianity, Islam, Judaism are. If you wanna wallow in this
mud, go ahead.

Anybody, well versed in normal Telugu can discern where this division
of varnas by birth is said in the above text.

Learning samskrit in orthodox school itself shows botttemless
ignorance of what Indian traditions are about.

The following was written in this egroup, just for your convenience,
I am pasting again:

"This samhita mantra has been asserted by Indologists as
being the justification for ancient India's varNa system and
present India's "caste system". Nothing can be farther from
truth, since this mantra does not state any of it, yet this
was made the basis through erroneous or vested
interpretations. Before I give my opinion, let us note that
all interpreters since Bhr`gu of Manusmr`ti through the Max
Muller tribe take this mantra to mean that Brahmins sprang
up (i.e., were born) from PuruSa's (Cosmic Being's) face,
kSatriya-s (kings) from His shoulders, vaishya-s from his
thighs and shUdra-s from his feet.

But anyone with a grain of elimentary Samkr`tam can't see
this meaning in this mantra. Instead, we have:

(His) face is seated by brAhmaNa;
rAja is made by His shoulders;
similarly vaishya (is made) from His thighs;
shUdra is born from His feet.

Note that three different kriyApada-s are used by the
shruti: ajAyata, kr`ta, and AsIt. Their meanings are not at
all similar, not even close by any fantastic imagination or
word jugglary.

Note that there is no shruti (this or any other in the whole
of Veda-s) that states that brAhmaNa is BORN from His face,
kSatriya is BORN from His shoulders, and vaishya is BORN
from His thighs. Yet, this is exactly how the above mantra
was and is interpreted by most. Therein was and is the seed
of all social problems, I feel.

There are other shruti statements that suggest "janmanA
yAyetE jantuH, karmaNA jAyatE dvijaH". This is recited
during upanayana samskAra. Also in the same puruSa sUktam it
is stated that the manifest universe sprang from His
feet/quarter (pAdO-sya vishvA BhUtAni, tripAdasyAmr`tam
divi). Thus, "padBhyAm shUdrO ajAyata" only re-states this:
all that are born (i.e., this whole manifest universe and
all beings) are providers of service to Him (i.e.,
shUdra-s). The vaishya-s and rAja-s, who are also shUdra-s
by birth, are made (by their own self-effort, hence kr`taH).
The brAhmaNa-s, who reach to sit on His face, who are also
nonetheless shUdra-s when born, become so by their own
self-effort, hence AsIt. Be it among humans or among stones,
this is the process of growth from a creature to becoming
one with the puruSa. Anything and everything in this
creation falls within this process of growth. There is no
exception.

Even today, boys in so-called Brahmin families if die before
their upanayana, their antyESTi is done as is done for
shUdra varNa. Similar is the case for unmarried girls, since
marriage for girls is considered as dIkSA for brahmatva. The
dvija-hood is considered reached upon taking to the
spiritual path of searching for Brahman within (and
without), although, technically, he/she is only beginning
the journey into dvija-hood, and hopefully he/she will
reach there in this life itself. This is the spirit and
intent of the samskAra-s. Sure, distortions have come in.
But it is self-suicidal, stupid, and foolish to throw out
the whole process instead of these distortions."




> the aryan civilisation was basically nomadic and agrarian
> .note the respect accorded to cattle and infact GOMATA was
> used as a currency sometimes.now how does this relate to
> harappan civilisation. first sites excavated at mohenjendaro
> reveal a highly developed urban sprawl-granaries, public
> baths...not in any way related to nomadic life style.

Vedas were written by nomadic aryans under the trees of sacred
saraswati. This written thing gainsays the veda giving itself. Around
1970-s, a person, named Daivaraata in Gokarna in Karnataka, gave 450+
new rik-s that were not part of previous compilations. What is this
procedure? Yoga samaadhi+samhitopaasana. Not writing under trees
thinking of Indra, varuna, semen, orgies.

Abysmal ignorance is the product of learning samskrit in orthodox
schools. Veda paatashaalas are about orthopraxy, not orthodoxy that
Christians are fascinated of.




> next the script
> is noway near to the devanagari script used by the
> manusmriti-followers.

you presuppose doctrinal system where writing is important. These are
oral trasnmissions, paadapatha, another built-in mathematical
structure. Recording sounds on paper, sand is irrevelant.



> if it was inanyway related to samskrutha,
> how come archealogists and indologists are finding it difficult to
> decipher it even today?

Veda samskrita is different from classical samskrit. Even the so-
called dravidian lingos sprang from praakriti, a product of veda
samskita. And telugu, kannada et al are deviated from classical
samskrit.




>how can this -prof.dinesh agarwal -try to
> go around this, which a primary school kid would disrepancies
> with?

Utter nonsense.

> more over the harappan worshipped a different diety
> alltogether a LORD of animals-PASHUPATHI

non sequiter

> more over the
> aryan rites and features were more similar to inhabitants of
> persia and central asia .

Your Indology friends cant even explain religion. Every asinine
fellow talks of rituals and rites. Religious culture that West is
never known of rituals. A flag-hoisting ceremony is not a ritual, any
more than scratching your skin because it itches is a rite.



> well , let an intelligent person find his own way. truth can't be
> covered for long by [brahministic] lies.

The debates are around Who is True Brahmin. It is not of Fradulent
brahmin. If we dont know how to understand word juggelary, thats why
we are here.

> now to the present , there is arguement to allow for
> time[patience] and education to bring progress and arrest the
> population growth.

It is mulsims contributing this growth in India.

> iam afraid some have argued for this for the
> past 50 years and see where INDIA is? politicians highlight the
> growth of IT and its success stories. what percentage of GNP
> does the IT industry contribute to? is our IT industry more of a
> service based product development than a self reliant original
> thinking industry?

Who cares about thinking. It is all money. Many people will become
janitors should the janitorial profession pays like $60K/annum. And
many wannabe doctors will take fast track training courses
like "Learn How to clean toilets in hightech fashion in 30 days" near
IBS, Hyderabad. There is no offense as long as world spins around
money.



>the larger picture is that majority of indians live
> in rural areas[ I for one , come from a rural area] where people
> lack access to health care, transport, clean water and
> infrastructure.

This is not the problem given by brahamin aryans[sic]. Rural economy
scrwed up ever since mulsims have been interfering(contrast notion is
indiffernce) others' traditions. During christening Pagan Rome,
temples and the properties of the latter had been robbed, cults were
suppressed economically. The same in toto was happened during
islamization, christinization(colonization) in India.





> every 5 years a politician comes along and
> showers people with false promises and cheap liquor to garner
> votes.

It is our foolishness to blame politicians and their chicanry. The
problems sprang from the secular state that India is.



>our biggest shame is we continue to elect these
> scoundrels for lack of alternatives. we have become passive to
> corruption and exploitation.

Repeat the truism of Trasperency International.


>a "chaltha hai" attitude is prevalent. "
> as long as iam comfortable and my family is, who cares? what
> are those people whining about? can't they see nothings coming
> of it!" these are the people who are holding our country back with
> the politicians.

It is the problem created by Indologists and their social theoritical
brethern.

> will the decreasing water tables, natural
> resources, forest cover wait for peoples attitude to change. you
> are talking about irreversible changes! one has to enter a urban
> slum to see the effects of over population .
> we still don't want to learn and we are touchy to anybody pointing
> our ills. iam not involved in mere chatter online.

Applied here are above comments.




> me and my
> friends are involved in a trust which has organised various
> health camps and shortly exapnding to 2 taluks in karnataka.

Good for you and the folks benifitted from your trust. I congratulate
you for doing this. It does not entail that all other human beings
are jingoistic/ethnocentric.



> medical advances and increased life span means that we are
> seeing more people surviving to their old age, unlike earlier
> ages where there was a balance between birth and mortality. tha
> t means even if we intervene now regards the population, the
> effects will be seen 50 years away. imagine the effects the
> present overpopulation would have had on the countries
> resources by then! complacency is one thing we can start getting
> rid of!


There is no relation to aryan invasion myth and the above smugly
talking.
----------------jkklll-
MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4427 of 36161 < Prev | Next >
Re: MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA

Basically, I do see religion that christianity is in the form of
learning configuration that generated and generating. Historical
evolution, such as, feudalism, conservatism, protestant,
englightenment, renaissance, industrial revolution, age of reason are
internal to the object that christianity is. Of course, many people
quote that Church hanged Galileo. And western social thinkers
continue their rant that they are rationalists, fought against
church, the standard text book story goes. We have Science of
Religion in the market put forward by Prof. SN Balagangadhara, a
Philosopher of Science.

There is no problem in comparing this to that as I do myself to
President Bush. But these comparisons are more intelligible in the
respective backgrounds. We ostensibly declare that these backgrounds
are within ambit of our ken. This asseveration cant be called
inferiority complex.

Law, state, das kapital, cemetries, child-rearing practices in the
West, geology, whatever idealogy that modern Indians are immersed in
have their philosophical roots in christianity. Thus far whatever I
wrote or ranted(for some people) are based on this understanding.

Now every educated knows that economy, science, philosophy, various
*isms, religion that christianity is are *not* inextricably
intertwined. I dont entertain any presuppositions as such. Thats why
these debates lead to quibbling, at the end, everybody is familiar
with common sense English lexemes.



I dont see any inferiority complex among Indias that you spoke of.
Live examples(Buddha fought againt caste system et al) in this egroup
contradicts this position. These folks are not suffering from
inferiority. The colonial stories are so sweet that everybody
succumbed to because of the transmutation of history. And
hindutvavaadis are also ensnarled by these things which can be
perceived if you see the debates in the epistemology they agreed.

If any Scientific Psychology in future comes to the market, it should
definitely debunks the biblical psychology that sciences are
operating on. Till then, one can make 'more' sense of these idealogies
(left and rightist, philosophies, economy, application of chaos
systems, genetical algos on Wall St) against Theological background.

Sorry, I cant provide any executive summaries on developments of
these philosophical, scientific, linguistic, theological traditions
in the West.

Beforing concluding this debate, Let me repeat few points:

a. There are no religions that christianity, islam, judaism are in
India. Till French Enlightenment, Western scholars distinguished that
Christianity is a religion and roman cults, Indian traditions are
*irreligious*.

b. The historians, linguists, all sundry scholarschip produced by
West and Westernized operate in same epistemological/cognitive
framework.

c. Well versed in English does not entail understanding the
backgrounds of the verbiage that we are damn famliar with.

d. Asians(Indians, chinese, japs, koreans, viets et al) are
christening(secularizing) in Asiatic mode. This is altogether
different phenomenon that we cant stop.

e. At last, it is Asians who testify religious 'truth' of
Christianity again reminiscient of Catholic vs. Protestant Polemic c.
16th cy.






--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Udaya Bhaskar Reddy
wrote:
>
> > Post-312 AD Roman agrarian society is not
> > indifferent to others'
> > beliefs. Thus, being living in agrarian society is
> > not *necessary*.
> >
-------------------------------------------kkkkkkkkkkkk-
POPULATION -the biggest danger! Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4411 of 36161 < Prev | Next >
Re: POPULATION -the biggest danger!

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "docsunny50"
wrote:
> just a simple question who have this issue and don't
> know about INDIAN history.
> firstly , the original inhabitants of
> INDIA were the Dravidians. ARYANS were the first invaders and
> they decimated a standing URBAN civilisation [HARAPPAN at
> MOHENJANDARO, LOTHAL...] and replaced it with a caste
> based agricultural society. our ills started then. divided and a
> country rich with natural resources we were always a attraction
> for invaders,looters,colonisers.so on...

Very true for de-christianized christains whose assumption is:
actions are embodiment of beliefs. So, the vedas are of primitive
christianity, so says Prof. Raymondo Panicker. Had not Prof. Muller
said that Buddism is Eastern Protestantianism, and Bodha Born in
Ethiopia exported to India, Bodha is Indian Martin Luther King.

Who identified that Vedas are doctrines of Hinduism and identifying
the latter as the heathens' religion?

Every damn idiot studied in Jesuit School is a philology scholar
whose aim is to find the God's word in different lingos and matching
fragments of words. Do vedas contain God's word? Yeah for modern
Indians, Indologists.


> O.K we have been colonised and looted. what about it?

Pillaging, maurading, colonising is the nature of religion that
christianity is. Superimpose epistemology(no social scientist has
capable of applying this, thanks to the culture he raised in) upon
Lingustics, we will see where Indology Linguistics stand.

Immerse in the Indology mud: Hinduism is a belief system. Seen are
Aryan Invasions, Orgies in Vedas.

'ananta vai veda': vedas are infinite. Learning samskrita, Born from
Brahmin Womb are not even prerequisites to be rishi who gives Veda
(riks). Go and study the procedures regarding the same appears in
Vernacular lingos, and start practice. And reductionists in Social
Scienes are hinting this in different fashion. Only practice, not
beliefs, nor intentions on which Christianity, Islam, Judaism are
founded.

What is this practice about: yoga, esp Anandamaya meditation. What I
am seeing in these modern meditation schools is "seeing light,
chakras, bull crap they assume"

There is nothing spiritual/divine/exotic/esotoric in the claims of
vaidika practioners who insist on practing Yoga.

This human science debunks the pet epistemology of Western sciences
that: There is *only one* reality, and There is a relation b/w
intention and belief.

A great gift is reproducing the stories given by our 'pure and
scientific' masters in the West ardently.
-------------------jjjkkk------------------------
MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA Message List
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Re: MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Jayaprakash Chilumula
wrote:

> India has many problems, such as pollution, poverty, corruption,
>overpopulation, etc. At first glance the list seems endless and the
>situation hopeless. And this indeed is India's greatest problem.
>Every Indian to some degree has this problem. For 1000s of years
>while India was under foreign rule we have been conditioned to
>believe that our situation was hopeless, and we believed.

No problem with the problems India facing today. The causal
antecedents of these problems are from perilous nature of religion
that 'hinduism' is, knows everybody. And one lurker in this board
quotes Manusmriti to prove this without spelling out presuppositions
such as, hindus(we got this name, thanks to persians), a) Indians
have religion that hinduism is, b) this supposed hinduism is a belief-
system, c) Knowledge is textual, d) hindoos got doctrinal system et
al. We can understand these presuppositions onlyif we study
christianity in scientific fashion, not in theological mode that
present social sciences immersed in. Somebody may brand me as
hindutvavaadi, thats ok with me. These problems have been raised by a
muslim who Edward Said is. Is Prof. Said also hindutvavaadi?




> If we start reconditioning ourselves, the "inferiority complex"
>might disappear after a few generations.

There is no inferiority complex that can be discerned. It is more of
accepting some presuppositions without being aware of it. This is
asymmetrical problem.


> This requires an exhaustive study of our history, which no one
>seems to be aware of. History of India (designed by the congress
>governments) starts from sepoy mutiny and ends with independence,
>showing congress leaders (gandhi, nehru, etc) as liberators of
>Indians. What about our more than 7000 year history?? and why is
>that very few people are aware of the fact that:

History is very important for religions that christianity, islam,
judaism are. Nobody suppressed Ekalavya, Dharmavyaada, Bhakta
Kannappa et al stories given they were being non-brahmins. Even our
Gotama Buddha pontificates that kshatriyas are better than others.

Had Calvin called Roman Church as 'Devil's Church'?

I dont discern any racism or hegemony in re: Buddhas stance unless I
accept todays theories of wondrous object called Hinduism.





>
> This is the land from whence, like tidal waves, spirituality and
>hilosophy have again and again rushed out and deluged the world, and
>his is the land from whence once more such tides must proceed in
>order to bring life and vigor into the decaying races of mankind. It
>is the same India which has withstood the shocks of centuries, of
>hundreds of foreign invasions, of hundreds of upheavals of manners
>and customs. It is the same land which stands firmer than any rock
>in the world, with its undying vigor, indestructible life. Its life
>is of the same nature as the soul, without beginning and without
>end, immortal; and we are the children of such a country. -- Swami
>Vivekananda

Swami Vivekanada is a proponent of Hinduism, in other words, he was
proselytizing. He is also jingoistic/intolerant, says scholars
in 'Religions in South Asia' depts of Western(Pure and Scientific)
Universities. So where do 'modern' Indians stand regarding these
modern claims of social scientists?


We are blind to the existence of religion that christianity is, as
was Swamiji.
---l----
MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA Message List
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Re: MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Udaya Bhaskar Reddy
wrote:
> Ancient indians were indifferent because the ancient
> civilizations were primarily agrarian and there was
> nothing called economies of scale. In an agrarian
> society Indian village with division of labout through
> casts and jatis was better suited to excel in each of
> the manual skills. During that period in history India
> was relatively prosperous and had plenty as produce.

Post-312 AD Roman agrarian society is not indifferent to others'
beliefs. Thus, being living in agrarian society is not *necessary*.


Is indifference the idiosyncrasy of ancient indians, is it not? This
entails cultural difference.

If 'cultural difference' is assented and what is the logical status
of the following:

> Anaylysing what lead to the renaissance and revolution
> is not the point. The point is India is out and it did
> not happen here.


Intelligibity is lent to the above which entails Indian culture or
Western culture are instances of some object that religion is or
instances of different kinds of religions. This leads to penultimate
problem(to me)or truism: religion is cultural universal.

> Quotes dont prove a point or neither say an opinion on
> the superiority or non-superiority of the economies of
> the west. Neither they establish scientific formulae
> for building scientific basis.It beats around the bush

One one hand, you evoke sciences; you say on other hand it is
irrelevant to analyse periodizations in western culture. So be it.




> angrei thought forms are not being analyzed here.
> Guess one has met lot of an angrezi chicks recently.

This is what is being called is 'colonial experience'. It is not
about aping westerns, nor of extracting revenues. But about
describing colonized experience in 'colonizer' world. Given the
previous sentence, it is about eclipse of angreji thought form and
Indian thought form.

> > mean broad minded(including pejorative
> > connotation), liberal?
>
> Should that be qualified that further and move away
> the zooming lens ?

Indians are habituated w/ these notions. Needed are not my
explanations or definitions.



> > i) This being a matter of individual psychologies,
> > the general
> > problem is: in our culture, what induces this
> > complex in individuals?
> > Where or how do we learn it? What mechanisms
> > transmit this complex to
> > individuals and how is this sustained at the level
> > of a culture?
>
> Soln : A landless labourer looks up to a pesent. A
> peasent to a higher property/land owner, and he to a
> trader and trader to an urbanite and urabanite to a
> merchant and merchant to an executive and executive to
> nobel peace prize, bookers prize winners. Is a
> transmission mechanism becoming evident ?
> The heirarchy is not enforced in strict sense though.

I would appreciate if 'inferiority complex' in your world of
discourse is explained. Otherwise I dont see any inferiority complex
if I change my espistemological assumption: Actions and beliefs are
independent.



> > ii) Would 'material success' reverses this? If the
> > current crop of
> > intelligentia is an example, the situation is not
> > promising. Most of
> > them are more servile than ever, and reproduce
> > western stories more
> > fervently than their predecessors. And our Dr. JP
> > Naraian, IAS
> > resigned is no better than our western masters. He
> > is trying to cure
> > a problem without understanding the phenomenon he/we
> > confronting
> > except assenting to Western descriptions in re:
> > corruption, politics
> > etc.
>
> This proves the inferior complexity point and we do
> not have drivers and engines to steer in different
> directions. We are just wagons behind the engines and
> keep puffing the chest whenever we win nobel prize,
> someone lands on moon, or a booker's prize is given.
> A natural willingness to follow, to be enslaved
> indirectly, to be praised to look for a pat from west.

No Indian scientist, or Indians in Natural sciences are not suffering
from this complex. They dont agree to some scientific fact just
because it is from West or Westernized. There is another issue that
why West produced sciences is not relevant to inferiority complex.

Of course, I was referring to Natural Science people talking of
reforms. This boils down to social sciences: Are these Indian social
scinces scholars suffering from inferiority complex. I dont think so.
Just they presume the tautologies given by our masters due to the
fact that the history was reshaped into indigenous solutions to the
weaknesses raised by our masters. Indeed transuted was the pre-
colonial(muslim, christain) Indian history.



> > iii) What is going on in India and among Indians.
> >
> > Just this labelling some phenomenon without
> > providing 'explanation'
> > leads us to ad hoc measures, slogans, cliches.
>
>
> Sometimes plain truths without assumptions, science,
> formulae hits hard.. may appear ad hoc, look
> slognish.. but difficult to rationalize....

Even truths are dependent on theory of certain phenomenon one talks
of. Immoral, feudalistic, castiest, or orietalist, westernized kinda
labels are fine for current crop of social scientists. And
explanations are called for to explain each and every scholars' book
on these labels. Cognitive tendency is not so dominant in these holy
social sciences. In and of itself, no problem with it and millions of
theses can be written and published in the name of comparisons.






>
> Another formula not being questioned here.

Reform is what for?



> Naturally, all western schools, and institutions are
> purer and more scietific.. a western stamp is
> recognized more anywhere.

Are Indians not purer and illogical?






>... even by
> conservative,theological, extremists Indians...

I would appreciate if you explain conservatism, theological,
extremism without quoting this or that as an example. CNN was ranting
on 'hindu extremism' that is inherent property of religion. Common
sense notion!

> > Colonized reponse to colonized problems; yet we
> > are 'modernized', 'better than our ancestors'.
> >
> > -A barbarian
>
> Induce some barbarian thoughts that would enlighten
> the stupid colonized Indian or is it that a barbarian
> by definition of christianity always only criticize
----k0000-
MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA Message List
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Re: MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Udaya Bhaskar Reddy
wrote:
> 1. West has been the primal force in tapping the
> forces of nature to invent/discover modern
> mechanization and industrialization. Almost all
> "modern" technologies can be attributed to the
> caucasions.... assisted probably by Indians/ others
> here and there....and they have been natural explorers
> ... ( superior economic condtions have been a natural
> result of this)

Ancient Indians are *indifferent to* these technologies, machinary
and modern machinations. Why they were indifferent, Why 'modern'
Indians are not need to be answered in non ad hoc fashion. I am not
sold on that 'superior economic forces in the West or lack of the
latter in the Orient'.

On the contrary, what are the forces behind the Industrial revolution
in the west that carried the legacy of French Enlightenment, Italian
Renaissance etc?

[Quote]

Consider these two famous research questions about the `transition'
in history (of both the `leftist' and the `rightist' variety):

when and how did transition from `slavery' to `feudalism' occur in
Europe?

This issue was discussed by theologians and theological historians
for a long time in the following form: how did Christianity put an
end to the Pagan Rome?


The historians discussed precisely this issue, and in this form, till
the end of the eighteenth century as well. The division they made
between `epochs' (a word coined by a French Christian Priest called
Bossuet during the 18th century) was the one between pre-Christian
(pagan) Rome and the post-Christian Rome.

The very same issue, with the *very same* division has now become
a `scientific' question in the guise of: how did feudalism put paid
to slavery?

The same can be said about another transition question that bothers
Marxist historians: how did feudalism (an `epoch' of social
production) give way to Capitalism in `the West'?

Do you know what this question is a complex translation of?

`Why did the Protestant reformation against the Catholic Church gain
foothold?'

[EndQuote]

Why 'modern' Indians in the name of science and technology 'presume
familiarity' with alien thought forms, culture, religions that
christianity, Islam, Judaism are when the diversity is presupposition
in sciences. Knowing English, working on Wall St, wearing straight-
jacket descriptions, calling oneself as atheist, theist, agnostic etc
do not make oneself to be an 'angreji'. Many atheists/agnostics can
be found in this reddyonline egroup if gallup poll were to be
conducted; yet we answer to questionnaire of 'cultural psychologists'
produced by West and Westernized Indians. Accent and slang, dating an
angreji chick, driving an European car are our damn familiarities of
the West:)



> 2. They are fairer and fair is considered beautiful (
> a large mentality in Indian psyche )

ya mean broad minded(including pejorative connotation), liberal?


> 3. They have given a huge inferiority complex to the
> Indian civilization by attacking and ruling for 3
> centuries and therefore proving the ruling class and a
> superior civilization.


Let us accede to "inferiority complex of 'modern' Indians".

i) This being a matter of individual psychologies, the general
problem is: in our culture, what induces this complex in individuals?
Where or how do we learn it? What mechanisms transmit this complex to
individuals and how is this sustained at the level of a culture?

ii) Would 'material success' reverses this? If the current crop of
intelligentia is an example, the situation is not promising. Most of
them are more servile than ever, and reproduce western stories more
fervently than their predecessors. And our Dr. JP Naraian, IAS
resigned is no better than our western masters. He is trying to cure
a problem without understanding the phenomenon he/we confronting
except assenting to Western descriptions in re: corruption, politics
etc.

iii) What is going on in India and among Indians.

Just this labelling some phenomenon without providing 'explanation'
leads us to ad hoc measures, slogans, cliches.

For example, It is like saying 'patriotism' causes one to 'fight for
his country'. The former names the latter, but not an *explanation*


> All other reasons are fact finding, rationalizations,
> manifestations and trying to agree with the "ideas"
> the "superior" civilization...

If science is being done, one needs to spell out the
assumptions/presuppositions. And our brown sahibs are omniscient.



> One may say that they are more clean, good systems
> etc.etc... but that is becuase the cake is huge and
> everyone has more than what is required to sustain and
> naturally brings the urge to be true and honest....

The 'corrupt' clerk in raily ticket counter is 'honest' though. Here
we are facing moral dilemma, thanks to our familiarity with English
and Western culture: how come corrupt person can be honest?



> Given the aping of systems from west ( bad working
> model in India) the paucity of resources/person in
> India one may observe a lesser honesty / trust/
> truth... But if normalized Indians and India are much
> better....

Again we are playing in the ambit of normative ethics where 'norm'
and 'fact' are considered different.


> This will continue till we prove them wrong/ beat them
> on our strengths ( which is difficult now, being in
> the back seat).

Scientific study of religion that christianity is, theological
evolutition in last 2000 years that gave rise to various idealogies
from marxism to neo-conservativism, to natural sciences.

Presumption of intimacy is disastrous. And our respected Dr. JP
Narayan knows very well of Western ethics. Denying normative ethics
to Indians entails 'Indians are immoral or moral cretins', goes
standard truism given by our masters.

Get a degree from IIT, Stanford, MIT, Oxford, Cambridge et al or some
doctorate in social sciences from sacred University, extol the
slogan: Reform is needed badly in India. We think we know of what we
talk and what we see.


Our respected Nobel laureate Prof. Amartya Sen is no different from
these masters. It is obvious that outta oppressed born are oppressors
as was evident in christian persecutions of pagans in the Europe.


Funnily enough, Hindutvavaadis do accept these frameworks,
epistemology without knowing what they are as can be seen in various
debates in India re: conversion/proselytization et al. This phenomena
took grotesque form nationalism vs. secularism. And the
supposed 'neutral' secular govt has been suppressing Indian
traditions in the name of 'secular freedom', 'plularism'.

Colonized reponse to colonized problems; yet we
are 'modernized', 'better than our ancestors'.

-A barbarian
-------------kkkll--------------------------------------------------
MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA Message List
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Re: MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, sreedhar reddy
wrote:

> U seem to make it a point that the Loksatta is following the same
>path as other great reformers like arya samaj, bhrama samaj and
>other social reformers.

There is a 'colonial' experience in the guise of 'cognitive
experience' since colonization. Well, Aryo Samaaj folks cant describe
the phenomenon that christianity is without distorting/trivializing
christians experiece; yet its rendering of Indian traditions
as "monotheism" is semitic transformation. Of course, they have an
university here in Florida. Linguistics, sunken philogogy, colonial
AIT won captivate me either.

>But dont u seem to agree that these movements did brought in a sea
>change and led to the formation of The Modern India.

The problem here is pretty simple:

British criticised Indian 'religions', Indian caste system, practices
like 'sati', untouchability so on. They reformatted Indian history as
native responses to these problems. For example, Buddhism came to
life by revolting against Brahmanism.

Many Indian intellectuals accentuated British criticism by
making 'truths' in the latter their own.

[quote]

I say 'truths' and place it in scare quotes because the unbroken line
of continuity between the colonial period and the one following the
Indian independence raises two kinds of questions. The first is this:
would there have been such a line of continuity if there was
no 'truth' to the British portrayal of our history, traditions, and
culture? This question uses the 'fact' of continuity to suggest that
the British descriptions could be 'true'. That is, our current
experience of our culture and society appears to lend truth-value to
the colonial descriptions of India. The second question transforms
our 'current experience' itself into a problem: does such a line of
continuity indicate that our experiences themselves are still
colonial in nature? This question throws doubts upon the 'facticity'
of the British descriptions of India, and suggests that they could
be 'untrue'. In the process, it also challenges us to look more
closely and investigate our own experiences today. That is, the
second question withholds assent to the 'truth' both of the colonial
descriptions of India and of some of the claims we make about our
experiences of our culture and society today. To some extent, and
only to some extent, the so-called 'post-colonial' writings can be
seen as attempts to make sense of the second question. There is
something deeply, deeply wrong with the line of continuity that
exists between the colonial period and today's India, and the
challenge is to say what it is.
[unquote]

Whatever theories on Indians, their immorals, their 'religions',
psychlogies etc so far are not scientific per se, but from rhetorical
force of the culture that describes, delimits, orients, creates and
instantiates other cultures as stupid, puerile, moral imbeciles in
REFINED diction.


>I do agree with u in Toto that we shld never look at a situation in
>isolation and we need to have a globla perspective to see the
>repurcussions that any new moment can bring in.

A distinction should be made: for example, the cognitive experience
of the phenomena that Sunset/Sunrise are is same to all beings that
we humans are in the cosmos that we are in. Thus one can assent to
Natural and exact sciences. The problem is about social sciences and
universalization of western cognitive experience. In this process
born were liberals, conservatives, marxism, secular state that India
is, aping of constituations by Ambedkar, Nehruvian gangs etc.


Pls. mind that the borders c. 1000 AD were more porous than today,
thanks to globalization, immigration, emmigration. Have you seen the
article of Rajiv Srinivasan titled 'california booming?' Many online
hindus do like his writings. But our esteemed Rajiv Srinivasan,
alumni of IIT and Stanford wont know what Indian traditions are about
except producing hackneyed slogans: Indians in US are excelling in
Sciences, SAT. Think of a situation, anachronistically, say of, pre-
Alexandar invaded India, Why the heck do the guys in that era need to
know of "Blackholes, refraction and other sundry sciences that we are
reverberating in the name of software, hardware, firmware" Even
Aryabhatta commented on Surya Siddhanta, yet our hindutvavaadi
friends never stop of talking "Aryabhatta, the great Indian
Scientist" Here is my query to these imbeciles: If Aryabhatta had
been a Scientist, Today sciences are not Sciences. That is, the
methods that we use today in the name of Intelligence, knowledge are
products of "mental agitation", say of, projects, intentions,
beliefs, wanna know this/that type. This were not the case then. And
whatever we have known of yoga(of course, many modern
Indians 'funnily' see light/chakras in yoga) that these are spiritual
(here, it picks up the cognitive experience of christian, not of a
Yogi that Indian had seen).


Thus far, whatever descriptions of Indians, their immorals,
spirituals are experiences of West that Christianity produced. So to
interrogate these social theories, we need to understand Christianity
first with maximal consistency(ie, w/o distorting christians
cognitive experience) Without this, whatever attempts of aping
American constitution, rules, reforming by studying today journals of
American/European Law are ineffectual. This leads to "mapping of
experiences" in re: except scientific phenomena that sunset/sunrise
kinda things, all others are cultural *dependent*. Of course, modern
liberal thinker in that West echoes that they fought againt Church
that hanged Galileo. This revered liberal philosopher is blind to the
fact that Christianity need Sciences(causal explanations), Social
Sciences(intentional explanations) that we have in market place by
virtue of 'Christianity is a religion that produces this kinda
learning configuration'





>But more than that we need to develop a system where politicians to
>function as corporates rather than as typical govt white elephants

This problem is petty, imho.
---llk-
MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA Message List
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Re: MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA

http://www.eenadu.net/panelhtml.asp?qrystr=htm/panel1.htm

After going thru above answers by esteemed Dr. JP Narayan,
I am retracting the stmt in re endorsing. Of course, I am against
game rules. Ask this gentleman to digest 'Western Normative Ethics'
and its consequences in terms of dilemmas, imperfectness of moral
world before pronouncing judgments on reforms and re-reforms by
succumbing one or another variant of Western sociopolitical
philosophical thinking.

Indian Civil Service, Doctorates, linguistics, reforms wont solve
problems confronting us in present India. More can be leant only by
studying scientifically Christianity and the culture it produced,
Western culture, and the learning configuration it generated, say of,
exact and social sciences. This loksatta movement is otherwise
treading the path of our old reformers, aryo samaaj(monotheism),
Brahmo Samaj, postcolonial, liberal, hindutva/hindu modernism
scholars.

Regards, VR.


--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "venkateshwara_reddy"
wrote:
> I am endorsing Loksatta's efforts.
>
> But we are not even evaluating the principles Indian democracy
> founded upon. Just repeating 18th cy primitive European concept
> nation-state has been and will be proved futile in India. It is
time
> to reaccess our traditions in novel ways to understand what Indian
> culture is and where do we stand vis-a-vis Western culture rather
> than sweltering in descriptive straightjacket(religion, state,
> tolerance, law etc) given by our masters and their slaves in the
form
> of social sciences.
>
>
> --- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "Dwarampudi Tirumala Srinivasa
> Reddy" wrote:
> > MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA
> >
> >
> > Dear friends,
> >
> > A Massive campaign has been launched by LOKSATTA - HYDERABAD for
> > empowerment of local governments (local bodies).
> >
--------llkll-
Re: Mathematics Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4265 of 36198 < Prev | Next >
Re: Mathematics

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "Vivek"
wrote:
> Can someone let me know what the words "Que sera sera.." means? Any
> idea?

French, Whatever will be will be.

'que' = 'what or its variant cases' has cognates in all lingos sprang
from latin.

e.g., query, quest, quidnunc, quiddity, 'que paso'
---po----
unnamaata Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4255 of 36202 < Prev | Next >
Anyway, the so-called religion "Hinduism" was manufactured in France,
administered in London, exported to India. Now we have that religion
yet we dont what it is. Of course, I am not interested in private
debates etc. Heathens in India, Roman Pagans do/did have religions is
a Theological truism/tautology. In this process, born were paganism
(look at the silly polemic[1] by Ambrose to Synamacchus, Rome last
pagan prefect), Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, Buddism[2] et al. The
secular sons, secular educated echoing these claims such as Hindoos
have religion etc are de-christianized christians whose savior is not
Jesus, nor did they have their baptisms. I am not in asinine
Indology, Social theorists debate of "translations, etymology"

Pls. read the following series; of course, seculars claim that these
are religious inculcations.

http://www.andhrabhoomi.net/unnamaata.html

The onus rests on seculars and their slaves to prove "scientifically"
that Hindoos(Al-Hind) have religion too.


[1] c. 400 AD http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/ambrose-sym.html
[2]Philip, C. Almond, British Discovery of Buddhism, Cambridge Univ
Press
---------------------klll---------------------------
MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA Message List
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Re: MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA

I am endorsing Loksatta's efforts.

But we are not even evaluating the principles Indian democracy
founded upon. Just repeating 18th cy primitive European concept
nation-state has been and will be proved futile in India. It is time
to reaccess our traditions in novel ways to understand what Indian
culture is and where do we stand vis-a-vis Western culture rather
than sweltering in descriptive straightjacket(religion, state,
tolerance, law etc) given by our masters and their slaves in the form
of social sciences.


--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "Dwarampudi Tirumala Srinivasa
Reddy" wrote:
> MOVEMENT FOR EMPOWERMENT OF LOCAL GOVERNMENTS IN INDIA
>
>
> Dear friends,
>
> A Massive campaign has been launched by LOKSATTA - HYDERABAD for
> empowerment of local governments (local bodies).
>
-------------------kllkkll----------
Mathematics Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4245 of 36203 < Prev | Next >
Re: Mathematics

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "Cnu.M.Reddy"
wrote:

> The Clever mathematician agreed. He said
> " let a = 4000 , b = 2000 and c = 6000"
> a + b =c
> Multiply both sides by a + b
> (a + b) (a + b) = c (a + b)
> a*a + ab + ba + b*b = ca + cb
> a*a + ab - ca = cb - b*b - ba
> a( a + b -c) = -b(b + a - c)

Fallacy!

kx = lx <==> k =l ONLYIF x <> 0




> so
> a = -b
>
>
> => a + b =0
----------------mk-
Hi I am Anuradha reddy. Nice to know about this group. Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4180 of 36203 < Prev | Next >
Re: Hi I am Anuradha reddy. Nice to know about this group.

> I never heard chennareddy as the last name for any one..

People do have last names being ancestors' name in their lineage.
This does not give clue to clustering re: gothra, shaka thingie.

Say, another gentleman, we should not pontificate "reddy names,
gothra, shaaka-s." Gee, we need tags such as "Sr. Engr, Business
Analysist, BS, MS, Dr, Ph.D"


Regards,
VR.
--------ppo--------------
UK TO CANADA Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4164 of 36203 < Prev | Next >
Re: UK TO CANADA

Getting immigratant visa may be easy for you, I can say vaguely.
Probably it may cost around USD 320. Go to nearby Canada's consular
office in England, or check web for application material for score
card, or folks in this group might help you with exactitude.

Good luck.

Rgds,
VR

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "Arun Reddy"
wrote:
> hi all ,if any one could help me with this ,i am currently in the
UK
> on work permit(hospitality industry)and i am looking for career in
> USA or canada,since states its very difficult to get a
> apportunity ,does any one have any idea how shall i try to get in
to
> canada on the work permit,if any of the members know some one who
> does workpermits for USA/CANADA plzzz let me know, or atleast some
> infomation on it will be helpfull thanking u very much
>
> Arun Reddy N
---d—
Q:When can I sing a Song of India? ans of Kalam... Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4163 of 36203 < Prev | Next >
Re: Q:When can I sing a Song of India? ans of Kalam...

Modern Indian since 19th century assumed the import of nationality
that Christinas has. Being born in India is the property to be
Indian, 20th century statement. Imagine, if one can, Indian culture
c. 500 BCE or pre-islamic invaded India, even a person in Cambodia
claimed oneself as Indian.

Now it is lumped to birth, passport, immigration/emmigration. Modern
man learned a lot, yet in the grips of intentional psychology,
another form of science, exported from Theology. We are Christians
inasmuch as we dont need to accept Jesus as our Savior, nor do we
have our baptisms yet.

Regards,
VR
-------------jjjkk--------------------
hai group,new member.. Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4062 of 36209 < Prev | Next >
Re: hai group,new member..

> welcome to the land of dreams!!!

An Aside from modern history that've not been learnt:


Imagine, if one will, a medieval monk at the turn of 15th century or
a student in a university in Europe writing a status quaestionis.

An element in their description goes thus: The 'lost' Christians of
Asia, converts and followers of Apostle Thomas, had built a peaceful
Christian Kingdom, where MILK and HONEY flowed on streets paved with
GOLD. Apparently, it is not just the 'immigrants' to Europe and
America who entertain such fancy dreams.
---po-
regarding stock market Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3988 of 36209 < Prev | Next >
Re: regarding stock market

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "reddyking_ap"
wrote:

> I would like to know everything about stock market, If anybody
> knows websites or books about this please mail me.

It is a game, so are life, algorithm, etc.

motto: Minimizing losses and Maximizing Profits.

Profits can be made in bull and bear sessions.

Of course, shorting and longing, day trading.

Others' loss = yours gain.

Lately, mathematicians are also playing by evolving strategies using
genetic algorithms. Esp gaining knowledge(Knowledge complexity in
game thoery) hidden in various indicators

Just visit your business school library, tons of books can be found
on this game.
-----------------dfsfsdfsdf--------------------------------
truth! Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3972 of 36209 < Prev | Next >
Re: truth!

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "docsunny50"
wrote:

> first by believing in the caste and gloating over the REDDY
> community as such is perpetuating BRAHMINISM as such.

I dont know of 'Brahminism' as such, unless we do Christian theology
in which the fathers of 'modern' intellectuals fought against some
priest(our notion of poojaari is different from that of 'Religious
cultures' that christianity, islam, judaism are) tribe of Roman
Catholicism.

>we
> are south-indians and dravidians primarily.

Again, another hackneyed Christian slogan in the form of 'philology'
and its ignonimous brethern.


> the ARYAN invaders
> clumped all dravidians either as SHUDRAS or dravidians.

Sir, Pls. understand 'Religion' first. And also, bear in mind that
Christianity claimed that it is true religion for almost 20
centuries. Now, we are anglicized, imported the products of Christian
theology that 'God', 'tolerance', 'religious
pluaralism', 'secularism', 'enlightenment' etc are. Wanna know more
of religion: explore "explanatory-intelligibe account." Indic
traditions are practical(praxy-practice; one shows stupidity when he
make it truth-funcational), whereas religions are based on beliefs
(not just assenting to proposition that God exists. More than that is
required to be a believer of a religion--It is *believing in* HIM. It
is not the case with practitioners in our saampradaayas.)

Yes, Missing sons of Noah are Aryans--The first assumption of this
Aryan Invasion theory, which took gestalt in 15th century Europe.

And our theologians and Jesuits were astounded by their discovery
Samskrita in India when they were holding belief that The language of
Eden is the mother of lingos. Of course, many in these group are
modern inasmuch as they condemn heathens for *assualting* on muslims.
I request them to go through Prof. Edward Said(a palestenian Arab)'s
nice essay called Orientalism to understand the foundations of modern
social sciences and comparative linguistics and its epistomological
assumptions.

> according to PURUSHA SOOKTHA of RIGVEDA , shudhras
> originate from the feet of THE HIRANYAGARBHA [the primeval
> manifestation]. while the BRAHMINS originate from the head.

Find the proper verse in said purusha sooktha and apply commonsense
critically, you will discern the current propaganda and original
import. English educated slaves cant be helped anyway insomuch as
they need English-Telugu translators. Again, Bigotry is not the
property of *only* Brahmins. Everybody shares this in various
directions.

This is a clear sign of Harvard Sanskrit syndrome! Cal 911 ;-)


> if
> some halfbaked BRAHMINIST tells you otherwise , remind
> ourselves how discriminatory the caste system is?

Oh Yeah! The common story tells us that Brahmins forbid shoodras to
learn. Bah, why should we got into sacred software profession were we
to be making lacks of rupees in our holy profession, agriculture,
handed down by our fathers. Ponder on this question diachronically,
Answer will be gotten!


>we were
> never and will never be a part of the ARYAN system.

Thanks to our secular education, we dont know the difference
b/w "belief" and "practice." Yet we become the experts on social
sciences ranging from JNU, Delhi via Cambridge+Oxford to US
universities.

One shows ignorance when he try to understand texts to get proper
understanding of ancient lore, practices, customs, traditions, unless
he himself is a Christian theologian, today Social scientists, heirs
of these sacred fathers assuming that *practices are embodiment of
beliefs*, this presupposition is the key for religions which
christianity, Islam, Judaism are.


>see we don't
> undergo UPANAYANAM[sacred thread ceremony].

The same braahmins shows the obverse of coin: There is no difference
b/w animal and the human before pre-upanayanam.

> BRAHMINISM
> is racist and if you note INDIAN HISTORY the brahmins were the
> first one to suck up to INVADERS.

What happened to modern economic invasion, Brutha! Who sucked to this
phenomenon, my friend?

>birbal-akbar, purnaiyya-tipu
> sultan, ambi[ a brahmin ruler]-alexander, bengali
> brahmins-britishers. BRAHMINS in vedic ages ate beef and now
> they consider it taboo to eat it[if you don't believe me ask any
> indian histoer professor].

Being a Professor does not mean that he knows of assumptions of a
culture that describe others' in thier verbiage. Sucked are those who
doing Social Sciences. Go to W. Bengal, Brahmins do eat fish!


> the brahmins were the ones who
> created tall-ended tales and stories and kept sanskrit to
> themselves,

Why do we learn ingles, amigo! Why not sanskit(again we dont know the
difference b/w samskriti/samskritam and sanskrit)?


> they created untouchability and tarnished hinduism
> with idolatry, numerous rites and rituals.

ROFL!

A life(in other words, conversion) is needed for this soul making the
above statement.

*ism-s are tied with beliefs(doxy, dogma-s.) So are capitalism,
communism, socialism, Christianity, Islam et al. Hinduism, Buddhism,
Jainism are products of Western Christian theology by
metamorphising 'otherness'(other traditions) to 'another'(another
religion)

A deep ignorance of practical systems.

On rites and rituals: Religions(there are no religions in India, pls
mind this) that christianity, Judaism, Islam are have an interesting
propery called 'reflexivity' which makes them to say of roman pagans,
Indians have religions too!

Rituals are *recursive* structures, an elegant property of Practical
system unlike Theoritical system filled up with dogmas, beliefs
(Belief in Jesus Christ etc), truth-functionalizations.



> WAKE UP ! as BUDDHA
> rebelled against BRAHMINISM lets not be narrow minded or
> parochials.


Yeah, Buddha for our Christian theologians reminds them of
Protestants fighting against Catholics. Thats why our 18th century
Christian Brother, Father of Aryan Invasion Theory, had showered
hypotheical religion called Buddhism with affections. And our modern
Indians are blinded as to what religion is!

I ask my esteemed friend to look at the Gauthama Buddha's dialogue w/
a Brahmin named Sonananda about who a Brahmin is:

From
pp42-45 of 'The Buddha's philosophy of Man: Early Indian Buddhist
dialogues' Ed. Ling, Trevor, Everyman's Library: London.

11. (The Buddha) said to him: 'What are things, brahman, which the
brahmans say a man ought to hv in order to be brahman, so that if he
says: "I am a brahman," he speaks accurately and is not guilty of
falsehood?

12-13. Then Sonananda...drawing his body up erect, and looking round
the assembly, ... said to the Master: "The Brahmans, Gotama, declare
him to be a brahman able to say "I am a brahman" w/o being guilty of
falsehood, who has 5 things. What are the five? In the first place,
sir, a brahman has to be well born on both sides, on the mother's
side and father's side, of pure descent back thru 7 generations, w/
no slur upon him, no reproach in respect of birth.

'Then he must be a scholar who knows the mystic verses by heart, one
who has mastered the 3 Vedic samhitas and other scholarly subjects...

'He must be handsome, pleasant in appearance, inspiring trust, w/
great beauty of complexion,... He must be virtuous, very virtuous,
exceedingly virtuous.

'Then he must be learned and wise ..."

14. 'Of these 5 things, Brahman, is it possible to leace one out, and
to declare the man who the other 4 to be a brahman, so that he can,
w/o falsegood, claim to be Brahman?'

'Yes Gotama, that can be done. We could leave out color. For what
does color matter? If he has ther other 4...

15. 'But of these 4 things, brahman, is it possible to leave one out,
and to declare the man who has the other 3 to be brahman?'

'Yes, Gotama, that can be done. We could leave out verses. For what
do the verses matter? If he has the other 3--good birth, virtue and
wisdom..'

16. 'But of these 3 things, brahman, is it possible to leave one out,
and to declare the man who has the other 2 to be brahman?'

'Yes, Gotama, that can be done. We could leave out birth. For what
does birth matter? If he has the other 2--virtue and wisdom--brahmans
would still declare him to be a brahman.'

17. 'Then', said the Master, 'of these 2 things, brahman, is it
possible to leave one out and to declare the man who has the other to
be a brahman ...?"

'Not so, Gotama!..Where there is morality, there is wisdom, and where
there is wisdom, there is morality'

22. 'That is so, brahman. I, too, say the same ...'


This shows the deep-rooted ignorance and the hatrednees imbibed by
Christianity thru our secular education, of the poster as to what
Buddha said!


Another Reddy from Sunken Land!
--------------ijklljkkl----------------------------------------
Re: About Saudi -Brief Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3832 of 36209 < Prev | Next >
Re: About Saudi -Brief

> > The way we respect our holy Places or temples, in
> > the same way we need to
> > respect this land, as it is holy land for all the
> > Muslims in the entire
> > country. No Muslim forces us to convert or even they
> > won't force us to
> > follow any religion activities.

At first sight, religious tolerance implies civic tolerance.
However, that is not quite the case: one could be religiously
tolerant, i.e., accept that all religions are either equally true (or
equally false, as the case may be), and yet be intolerant, say, of
fascists. This shows that the implication between religious and civic
tolerance holds only in the context of discussion about religions.


Religious tolerance revolves around the question of *truth*

For example, hindu heathens see Vishnu in the form of Pig(Koorma
avatar.)

Ask our secular congy friend, who touts the old slogan--All religions
are equal, blah, blah, of this: Has Allah(thanks to junkies
of 'Eshwar Allah Tere Naam) incarnated in the form of Pig?

And another question to Secular Sonia Gandhi: Does she see 'Christ'
in dog?

Please bear in mind that 'Jesus' and 'Christ' are two different
entities. And Jewry is waiting for prophesied one, the messaih, the
anointed one, The Christ. Our secular xian brerthern see Christ *in*
Jesus of Nazareth, a son of carpenter.


Yet, heathens see divinity in every form irrespective of Pig, dog etc.


Even this 'fundamentalism', 'Nationalism', etc are part
of 'Religion'(caution: There is only one true religion, all others
are pale and erring variants of this true religion) Hindoos, Pagan
Romans, Greeks never have any religion.

Having seen hindoos as believers of rival religion, the forefathers
of today seculars, the Europeans hallucinated of rival religion,
called Hinduism..Now we are wallowing in this religion.

Hallucination is continuing...
----------uiouiouioiou-----------------------------------
Is there any kind of SECURITY using YAHOO groups Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3790 of 36209 < Prev | Next >
RE: Is there any kind of SECURITY using YAHOO groups

Thanks to Prof. Peter Guttman, U of Auckland, who says of Uncle Sam
using the following cliche:

"In God We Trust, All Others We Monitor"

It is NSA(National Security Agency, 'No Such Agency' in security
parlance) storing every e-communition on the earth whether it is
data/telephone call/media through ECHELON surveillance system.

Pls mind that 50% of high performance computing hardware is bought by
NSA.

http://www.nsa.gov
http://www.fas.org/irp/nsa/

An interview with NSA:
http://tbtf.com/resource/NSA-interview.html

Another face of the same coin is DARPA: Defence Advanced Research
Projects Agency, which funded Internet in its inchoate form ARPANET
to sneak every country's commercial, economical, social interests by
imbibing this holy milk, The Internet.

DARPA:
http://www.darpa.mil/

They majorly deal with real-time data-mining and real-time
cryptanalysis and how to enforce Cryptology standards in other
countries.

Regards, VR.




--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "jithendra_p"
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I guess the things we discuss here in these groups about our
> difficulties, problems, solutions, criticism and lot more are
watched
> carefully by native americans. I think every move of us is known by
> them. Do u people really think does this have any big impact in the
> future by helping them to make good decisions etc. I don't know
what
> kind of gambling is going on, can't imagine my reddy friends. I
> thought of starting this discussion long back but thought is it
worth
> discussing again on this unsecured information site. But anyway
> everyone should think about it. This world is 2 complicated and
most
> of the time it is hard to see some real facts. so lets start our
> discussion ....
>
> Note:- This no way means shutting down the group.
>
> ciao,
> Jithendra Reddy
-----------------pooiuyt---------------------------
Need USA IT consultants prefferably Boston Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3786 of 36209 < Prev | Next >
Re: Crazy USA

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Grace Reddy
wrote:

> why people like US....?

There is no reason, as indic thought paints it as indescribable
(illusion) unless one constained by *meta-assumption*, a legacy of
The civilized.

Of course, semitized indoos, 'modern' Indians got affected by this
virus since mogal times. Thats why we, The modern, try to find an
explantion of everything we think we know of.
--------------poiuytt---------------------------
Secular description: religion = matham Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3684 of 36209 < Prev | Next >
A good read for secular indoos.

Rgds,
VR


This intellectual and academic appropriation of the word religion
tends to conceal the fact how Christian such a notion of religion is.

In place of the Christian religion we are now, in fact, operating
with a Christian conception of religion. Prof. Balagangadhara writes:


"In the name of science and ethnology, the biblical themes have
become our regular stock-in-trade: that God gave religion to
humankind has become a cultural universal in the guise that all
cultures have a religion; the theme that God gave one religion to
humanity has taken the form and belief that all religions have
something in common; that God implanted a sense of divinity is now a
SECULAR(emphasis added) truth in the form of an anthropological,
specifically human ability to have a religious experience…One has
become a Christian precisely to the degree Christianity ceases being
specifically Christian in the process of its secularization. We may
not have had our baptisms or recognize Jesus as the saviour: but this
is how we prosecute the Christians. The retribution for this is also
in proportion: the pagans themselves do not know how pagan they
really are. We have, it is true, no need for specifically Christian
doctrines. But then, that is because all our dogmas are in fact
Christian."


"...colonialism is not merely a process of occupying lands and
extracting revenues. It is not a question of encouraging us to ape
the western countries in trying to be like them. It is not even about
colonising the imaginations of a people by making them dream that
they too will become 'modern'[1], developed and sophisticated. It
goes deeper than any of these. It is about denying the colonised
peoples and cultures their own experiences; of making them aliens to
themselves; of actively preventing any description of their own
experiences except in terms(secular descriptions; angreji--emphasis
added) defined by the colonisers."

[1] 'the age of reason' gives answer as to who is modern, who
uncivilized, barbarian etc.
--------------------kllk---------------------
Wireless LAN. Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3682 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Wireless LAN.

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "Padala, Srirami_Reddy"
wrote:
> Hi people, Is there anybody using Wireless LAN technology in this
group. I
> would like to know some technical and other details like bandwidth,
> security, support, cost etc..
>
> and also if you know any vendors from Hyderabad who are into
Wireless LAN,
> Please point me there.

I am not sure of cost etc. But security is PR stunt. The so-called VC
firm WLANs down sandhill road can be sneaked very easily. The problem
is with current programming paradigms. The security of a system is
contingent on the weakest link of the said network. Cryptology is not
of much help!

companies making home n/wing products: linksys, d-link, netgear,
microsoft, hawking etc.
----------------lklol-----------------------
Re: Banglore beauty queen arrested for prostitution Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3578 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
I would have appreciated had you shown how me posting
of news extract entails your conclusion, as follows:

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Ravindar
wrote:

> Mr.venkateshwar Reddy , r u a reddy or not. i
>suspect.....

Your foregoing remark is 'argumentum ad hominem', a
logical fallacy.


The newspost negates( counter example in logic) the
premise-No Reddy is prostitute; yet this does not
contradict some humans(reddys are implied) are not
into prostitution. Pls. mind that I am not
presupposing definitional equivalence: prostitution =
Bad. In contrast, our secular brethern do so.

The crying need of today requires *critical
reasoning*, but not rhetorics, polemics, and
dogmatics.


Thanks,
Venkateswara Reddy,
a non-main stream non-secular Reddy in sacred secular
world.
---------------------pojkhjkhjk-----------------------------
Banglore beauty queen-Jyoti Reddy- arrested for prostitution Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3550 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Thanks to a IRC freak for directing this news.

It is time to legalize prostitution.




-----------------------------------------
Bangalore beauty queen arrested for prostitution

Express News Service
New Delhi, June 11: The Delhi Police Crime Branch last
night busted a prostitution racket involving models at
a five-star hotel. A woman, who claimed to be a former
Miss Bangalore, was arrested.

Jyoti Reddy told police that she had won the 1999
inter-college beauty pageant in Bangalore. She flew
into the Capital on June 6 and checked in at the hotel
as Ritu. ‘‘She was staying at room number 1157,’’ a
senior police officer said.

A team under ACP Rajan Bhagat sent a decoy customer to
the hotel. He struck a deal for Rs 15,000 and paid an
advance of Rs 2,000. Reddy was arrested while
accepting the money in the hotel’s lobby, officials
said. A case under the Immoral Trafficking
(Prevention) Act has been registered.

Reddy’s clients were mostly businessmen from the city.
This was confirmed when two businessmen — one from
Karol Bagh and another from Sadar Bazar — today gave
sureties in the court for securing her bail.

DCP (Crime) Dipender Pathak said: ‘‘The woman told us
she does ramp shows all over the country for famous
fashion designers and has been coming to the city to
submit her portfolio to television producers.

She has been in the prostitution racket for a couple
of years and has alleged that top designers are
involved.’’

Reddy had run a bill of Rs 33,000 at the hotel apart
from several payments made in cash. ‘‘She has
confessed to entertaining five persons during her stay
and earning Rs 1.25 lakh. The woman started operating
a day after reaching Delhi,’’ an official said.

Hotel authorities maintained that they had called in
the police. A spokesperson said: ‘‘We were suspicious
of Reddy’s movements and informed the Crime Branch
officials. Police laid a trap and arrested her.’’

Reddy had been sent to the Capital by Lata, a
Bangalore-based woman. She had called her business
associates in the city and informed them about Reddy’s
arrival.
----------------------ljklj---------------------
Tehelka Tapes and Sonia's Past Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3547 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Not only 'holy' crap is the the following extract as
some seculars reverberating in this forum without even

reading the listed Andrajyoti URL remarks on ETS
exams.


I am glad to note that trifling voice-a secular
phenomenon- is taking place.

God save the queen!


------------------------

N. S. Rajaram
Tehelka Tapes and Sonia's Past

The tehelka.com 'expose' is a diversionary tactic
meant to prevent skeletons in Sonia Gandhi's cupboard
from coming out.

The medium is the message
A fledgling Indian dot com company called Tehelka.com
recently made a big splash by releasing a tape
involving a few BJP and Samata party functionaries and
some retired defense men. It went on to claim that it
had 'exposed' massive corruption within the defense
establishment, including India's Defense Minister
George Fernandes. The Indian print media and
television, especially Tehelka.com's sponsor Zee TV,
prominently featured the story, sensationalizing it in
the bargain. The Congress (and the Communists)
immediately demanded that the Vajpayee Government
resign on 'moral grounds', citing national security as
the reason. The loudest voice was that of Sonia
Gandhi, who went on to call Vajpayee a gaddar
(traitor).

It was absurd in the first place for the Congress and
the Communists to don the mantle of national security,
let alone morality. Congress gave away a large part
Kashmir and all of Tibet; the Communists have openly
supported Chinese attacks on India, not to mention the
Razakar atrocities and the Partition. And Sonia
Gandhi, following her now infamous tea party,
immobilized the Government long enough to facilitate
the Pakistanis to infiltrate in Kargil. (Pakistan
rewarded her by prominently featuring her
anti-Government speeches on Pak TV during the Kargil
War.)

But then events took a bizarre turn. Her former ally
Subramanian Swamy issued a press statement claiming
that Sonia Maino (her real name) and the Maino family
had been paid agents of the notorious Soviet
intelligence agency KGB. Swamy of course is not the
most credible person in the world, but this time
around it was different. He referred interested
parties to the now open Soviet Archives and also to a
book written by a distinguished Russian journalist.
This led to panic in the Sonia camp. According to some
reports she sent an SOS to her son Rahul to give up
his job in London and join her in her time of
distress. (My report is that Rahul who has dropped out
of several colleges has no job, but that is a
different story.)

Immediately after the Swamy revelation, the Congress
refused to allow the Parliament to meet. This is
strange to say the least. With the supposedly
'explosive' Tehelka tapes, any opposition party would
be itching for a debate in the Parliament. If
anything, it should be the NDA (including the BJP)
that would want to avoid debate- as the Congress did
after the Bofors scandal. But of course, once
Parliament meets, there is nothing to stop the BJP (or
anyone else) from raising questions about the
Sonia-KGB connection. This behavior of Congress -
running away from any debate in Parliament - lends
substance and credibility to Swamy's charge.

As far as the contents of the Tehelka tapes are
concerned, they are worth nothing. C. Rajagopal,
widely regarded as one of the world's foremost
photographic experts told me that the 'evidence' of
the tapes would be thrown of any court in five
minutes. Even worse, they would not be admissible even
in an FIR (first information report), without which
there cannot even be an investigation. To begin with,
the 'evidence' was obtained illegally. Even the police
need a court order to tape secretly. When the tapes
were shown on TV, most people could not make head or
tail out of it, but depended entirely on the comments
gratuitously provided by the broadcaster. (The CEO of
Tehelka is a nephew of Arjun Singh and the chief of
Zee TV is close to Congress.)

So the tactic becomes clear. Attack is often the best
form of defense. Accuse the NDA- including Fernandes
and Vajpayee of being security threats to forestall
any possible exposure of her own record, including
possible links to the KGB and the Vatican secret
agency Opus Dei. So here is the truth behind the
Congress antics: even though it is blocking
parliamentary proceedings in the name of Tehelka, its
real concern is the exposure of Sonia Maino-Gandhi's
questionable past. This remains shrouded in mystery,
but it is worth looking at the little that is
available.

Beyond Bofors
When a history is written of the last twenty years of
Indian politics, Sonia Gandhi's name is likely to be
associated above all with the Bofors scandal. This
could of course be overtaken by Subramanian Swamy's
sensational revelations, if they prove to be true. But
this is only one episode in a long pattern, which had
a single goal - acquisition of money for herself and
her Italian family. Several of her relatives -
including her cousin and Quttrocchi's wife Maria - are
wealthy beyond their wildest dreams thanks to Sonia's
Indian connection.

Sonia Gandhi's attachment to money is legendary-
understandable in a person of her socio-economic
background. For a person of her background, the
highest aspiration is to escape from her depressing
surroundings, which of course she has done with
spectacular success. This no doubt accounts for her
extraordinary attachment to money, as well as her
admiration for get-rich-quick artists like Paul
Marcinkus (more later) and Ottavio Quattrocchi. This
is a typically lower middle class Italian trait. But
she also controls vast financial resources through her
trusts and foundations- and now the Congress party.
Some of it at least came from the KGB, if Swamy is to
be believed. Obviously she had to give something in
return.

It goes without saying that the trusts and foundations
controlled by Gandhi should be properly audited. As
far as the finances are concerned, since there was no
governmental oversight for many years, we can be
reasonably sure that a good part of the money has
found its way into illegal channels where profits are
very much higher. This is invariably the case all over
the world. Keeping this possibility in view, it is
worth taking a look at some potential sources of money
and possible subversion.

Years ago, well before Rajiv entered politics, Sonia
used to be the managing director of a company called
Maruti Technical Services. This was illegal since she
was still an Italian citizen at the time, but let that
pass. One of her more unconventional enterprises was
the export of coffins to a company called Tribute
Caskets in Kansas City, United States. The vice
president (or some high official) of Tribute was a
woman known as Virginia Cover de Rodrigues. She was an
unusual woman, with known connections to several Latin
American dictators, notably Manuel Noriega of
Nicaragua. Noriega is of course a notorious drug lord,
now serving a long sentence in a Miami prison. What is
interesting is that the relationship between Gandhi
and de Rodrigues blossomed to the point where de
Rodrigues was the beneficiary of millions of dollars
paid through an account bearing the name Svenska. It
was also the account used to channel Bofors kickbacks.

Then there is the strange case of Archbishop
Marcinkus, former president of the Vatican Bank, and
now wanted by the police in Italy and the United
States. The Vatican Bank was a hotbed of drug money
laundering operations. Its chief Marcinkus is (or was)
'spiritual advisor' to Sonia's family. In 1986, when
he could not set foot in Italy or America for fear of
arrest, he received red-carpet treatment in India. He
conducted Catholic service at 10 Janpath for Sonia.
Marcinkus was also involved in several Latin American
banks controlled by a Sicilian Mafia lord by name
Michel Sindona - known also as 'the Shark'. Sindona,
the Shark, an advisor to the Vatican and a personal
friend of Pope Paul VI, died in an Italian prison,
poisoned by unknown hands. Just before his death, he
gave a statement accusing the Vatican of the crime.

At least one other high Vatican official was involved
in Latin American drug wars. This was Cardinal
Posadas-Ocampo of Mexico who was an agent of the
notorious Colombian drug baron Pablo Escobar, and
possibly also of Noriega. In May 1993, Posadas-Ocampo
- known as the 'Drug Cardinal' - was assassinated at
the Gudalajara airport in drug-infested Central
Mexico. The Cardinal was closely associated with
several Latin American banks controlled by Sonia's
friend Marcinkus and the late Sindona. Mexican Church
officials stated that he was killed because he was
trying to arrange safe asylum in Mexico for his patron
Pablo Escobar. Escobar himself was later gunned down
in a battle with the Colombian drug enforcement
authorities, showing that he was badly in need of a
safe haven. This, the good Cardinal was trying to
arrange, before he was assassinated.

Then there is the stranger case of the late Agha
Hassan Abedi, the founder of the Pakistani Bank known
as BCCI (Bank of Credit and Commerce International) -
another drug money laundering outfit. Where the
Vatican Bank was active in Europe and America, the
BCCI specialized in the Asian drug market. Abedi's
reach extended to the U.S. also. He even had the
former Secretary of Defense Clark Clifford as his
lobbyist for a fee of nearly $100 million! This was
exposed in U.S. Congressional hearings, and Clifford
was disgraced.

What has this got to do with the Gandhis of India? For
a start Abedi happened to be a major donor to the
Indira Gandhi Memorial Foundation, later controlled by
Sonia. The first Indira Gandhi Peace Prize was awarded
to Yasser Arafat, with money donated by Abedi! In
addition, several members of the Gandhi trusts have
close ties to Pakistan. A high official of the Nehru
Museum and Library is a Pakistani who claims to be a
Marxist. Sonia Gandhi's close associate and official
spokesman Mani Shankar Aiyar has consistently taken
pro-Pakistani positions on most issues - from the
Jinnah House in Mumbai to Kashmir. In one of his
columns, he went so far as to suggest that Kashmir
could be handed over to Pakistan with the expectation
that Pakistan would help India get oil from the
Central Asian Republics! (The Pakistani Archives, if
opened some day like the Soviet Archives, should have
many interesting secrets to reveal.)

More recently, something else was brought to my
attention by a person who used to work at the Italian
Embassy in Delhi. This was when Indira Gandhi was
Prime Minister. In those days, Sonia openly displayed
her contempt for India and Indians, and went to
cultural events at the Embassy consciously dressed in
the European style. A particularly close friend of
Rajiv and Sonia was the Cultural Attaché at the
Italian Embassy. This man was later removed by the
Italian Government for using his diplomatic status to
smuggle antiques out of India. His modus operandi was
to ship valuable Indian antiques in diplomatic courier
bags. My friend informed me that some of these
smuggled antiques ended up in a curio shop in
Orbassano in Italy, run by Sonia's relatives.
(Orbassano, near Turin, is Sonia's native place.) A
few journalists that tried to ask questions at the
shop were unceremoniously thrown out.

Golden goose
It was probably knowledge of this murky past - and the
dangers of placing national security in her hands -
that made former Congressmen Sharad Pawar and Purno
Sangma break away from the Sonia group and form their
Nationalist Congress Party. In fact, Sangma explicitly
told Sonia, "We know nothing about you." Sangma and co
had probably hoped that there are enough Congress
leaders imbued with the national spirit to follow
them. But they reckoned without the venality and the
cowardice that characterize the breed of sycophants
that make up the Sonia Congress. To them Sonia Gandhi
is the goose that lays the golden egg. When a mere
typist in her office like Vincent George could amass
crores, what must it be like for others in her court?

Her fear of exposure helps account for much of her
recent behavior, including her entry into politics. It
tells us why this housewife who had shown no interest
in politics, suddenly took over the Congress, and
embarked on an arduous election campaign to keep the
BJP away form office. This was not to save the
Congress but to save herself - especially her past
from exposure. The next few weeks and months should be
quite interesting. The real question: can India afford
to place everything including nuclear weapons in the
hands of a near illiterate adventuress trying to save
herself from disgrace?
-----------------ljll-----------------------------------
Romila Thapar's appointment to Library of Congress opposed Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3512 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: [ReddyOnline] Re: Romila Thapar's appointment to Library of Congress opposed

--- reddy_sas2000 wrote:

> What kind if civilization you have?

Heathens till 1500 AC(in secular dictionary 1500 AD)
were exterminated and dubbed 'barbarians(uncivilized
people)' by then 15th century rabid Xians(Catholics,
Lutherens, Calvinists etc.)

To other members:

Anybody who opposes Abrahamic thought are called
"Barbarian(Uncivilized)"

And those who ape Abrahmic thought in distint forms of
"de-christinized Xianity", a few of such are "liberal,
conservative, secular, communist, capitalist,
exclusivist, inclusivist', so-called CIVILIZED people.

From p.8 Bainton, Rolad., The reformation of the
sixteenth century, Beacon Press, Boston.

[quote]

Civil society was to be Christianized in that the
laity should cease devouring one another and make of
their fighting seasonal and restricted sport: such was
the program of the Peace and the Truce of GOD. Or, if
they must fight, they should not kill each other but
RATHER TAKE SERVICE UNDER THE BANNER OF THE CHURCH
AGAINST THE ENEMIES OF FAITH. Here was the origin of
the idea of crusade.

[unquote]

> If you are
> opposing Romila
> Thapar's appointment to Library of Congress that is
> fine .

Anyway these people bungled by running epetition,
rather than doing research on *de-christinized
Xianity.*



> fascist views.

Fascist is another shade of de-christianized
christianity. I am a heathen, yo!

These seculars should send their SISTERS and DAUGHTERS
to harems to forge MUSLIM-HINDU Unity. Why dont these
asinine seculars walk the say?


>
> Poodle means: Any of a breed of dogs originally
> developed in Europe
> as hunting dogs, having thick curly hair of varying
> color, and
> classified by shoulder height into standard,
> miniature, and toy
> varieties.

This purport is helpful for many on this board to
understand Seculars and its exemplar 'Romila Thapar.'

Re: msg #3421, Everybody, studying history of the WEST
of last 2000 years, knew Seculars' cacophony!


GOD Bless you brother;-)
----------------lkjlkjk---------------------------------
Tough times ahead Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3503 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Tough times ahead

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "sankar_bandi"
wrote:
>
> Hia Group,
>
> Greetings, It's going to be real tough deal for the people come
> and work in abroad.

I dont think so. In fact, we will be seeing more prep companies like
Kaplan, Princeton Review in USA and its Indian replicas such as
Ramaiah, Narayana, Kora etc in India.

The presecriptive/Normative/Secular type education is screwing many
Telugu medium guys studying in typical Jilla Prajaaparishad Secular
schools. This is why we are seeing many English Educated Secular
Indians in USA Secular Schools, one of whom complaining about me
using "you all" in "You All guys + Verb Phrase." This kinda loony
fringe should need to explore dynamic/non-normative/non-
secular/Descriptive ingles Grammar rather than vociferously pointing
about *secular errors*!


> Pleae go through this article,
> http://www.andhrajyothy.com/mainshow.asp?qry=/2003/jun/1main14

"GRE/GMAT/SAT/LSAT are difficult to beat" is a secular slogan. For
those who are prepping for these exams can find the following books
interesting.

1. Morenberg, Max., Doing Grammar, OUP. Used book costs about $8.00,
new $30.00

2. Quirk, Randolph., et al, A comprehensive grammar of English
Language, used $120.00, New $270

3. Huddleston, R., Pullum, G., The Cambridge Grammar of the English
Language, $120 to $150

4. Nurnberg, M., et al, All About Words: An Adult Approach to
Vocabulary Building, $4.00

5. Nurnberg, M., et al, How to Build a Better Vocabulary, $4.00

6. Any dictionary with detailed Etymology, for example, Random House
Webster's Dictionary, $4.00


Of these, [1], [4], [5], and [6] are very helpful in many ways.

[2], and [3] are kind of reference books but scintillating if you
wanna know more about TG(Transformational-Generative) Grammars.
--------------------------kljlkjl------------------------------
Manam gaunlola thoni equal ainam Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3477 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Manam gaunlola thoni equal ainam

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "reddykommidi"
wrote:
> When I said poi poi vanne chesunkundee antey ,that guy is
not
> good I would have been happy if she married a ordinary
engineer
> who is a good human being,I raised my concern as I know her
> personally.

The recent ado on this board is not about whether Sweta married to a
good(secular godly) person or not.

Things were changed during last 200 years. For example, the so-
called reddies, as many on this board pompously talking about unity,
used to look for subsect.gothra.different gothra as if a Pedakanti
reddy, Maddur gumpu/shaaka(related to Kurnool areas) looking for a
mate in that pedakanti.maddur

I am a bit nonplussed by the "unity, reddy, Good, GoodEngineer" type
verbiage.

What if I will become kaatikaapari(secular translation: Funeral
Director) on the banks of sunken river in an arid village of sacred
secular India. Will I cease to exist being
Reddy/Good.Reddy/Reddy.Good/Reddy.BS/Reddy.MS/Good.MS/Good.BS


Shall I look for GoodEngineer to marry?

What is Good, What is Bad, Oh My secular Lord! Will Damned be
Saved? It is high time to start De-secularizing secular Indian mind,
thus he will become full-fledged Secular Christian kneeling down at
Cross and calling fellow heathens as EVIL.

Simply repeating after secular mantras wont lead us nowhere in the
understanding ancient traditions/customs.
---------------------kljk----------------------------------
Manam gaunlola thoni equal ainam Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3443 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: What ????

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "reddy_it_guy"
wrote:

> ainaa..ee americalo enta mandi manchi manchi tella ammayilu paniki
> raani nallolla nu pelli cheskotledu? kalikaalam emijeyyalemu....

Blacks and Native Indians are stupids? I beg to disagree.



It is the Southerners made blacks 'cultural impotents' thru 'Sexual
Slavery.' The same tribe is making Indians impotent via 'Secularism.'
------------------------jlnhjkhjk------------------------------------
(no subject) Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3440 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: (unknown)

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, arjun dyapa
wrote:

"IF YOU DONT LIKE THIS CULTURE GET OUT and STAY AWAY".


Here comes the standard secular rhetoric! Dont get lost in the
secular thinking such as "positive and negative"(cf:#3428), "double
standards ref # 3419", "Good and Bad", and "left and right."

The problem is more profound than word jugglary. So little do we
learn from this standard-Indian-secular education mode.

For example, a post-colonial(a subset of secular scholars against
colonialism) at UCB liberal arts dept transforms "God(Biblical God?)
and Devil(Gods of pagans and heathens?)' into "Good and Evil"
and "positive and negative" etc.
-----------------------lkhj-----------------------------------
Manam gaunlola thoni equal ainam Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3436 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Manam gaunlola thoni equal ainam

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "reddykommidi"
wrote:

> That girl swetha Reddy should have that feeling.
>
> Poi Poi vani chesukuvadam endey 20 murders 30 Rapes
> Eppatee varakoo vadu.
> Vani Thammudu Viki 40 Rapes , 50 Murders vadu aey Reddy
> ammai nee chesukuntadoo.
> I think we should brain wash our girls.

Shri Reddy gaaru, namaskaaraH,

Would you be happy if the Nellore Swetha Reddy were to marry to a son
of *hypothetical Devender Reddy* indulging in murders and rapes,
holding a secular ministerial position in sunken AP cabinet?

If that is so, we can see bunch of whackos within reddys, one of whom
is my brother-in-law( son of my maternal uncle) who killed his
brother. Yet he is married and secular happy. Secular God, Secular law
(product of waspy Theology) may forgive him, but not careful
observers.

We are not supposed to be wallowing in secular hypocrisy, are we?



How many of us are really intersted to marry a girl/guy just being a
Reddy without looking for various mundane qualifiers such as
*Cisco/HP/Intel/MS coolie*, or *with good morals(secular ethics
forgive murders and rapes once if you proselytize into secularism)*,
or *how much fertile land one possess?*


Let me explicate another hypothetical scenario: Assume that there
exist paucity in American Janitorial profession. Back home in India
our people used to consider "paaki" as mean position etc. And the
west is willing to pay $70K per annum for janitors along with special
visas such as Janitor-1 Visa. What do we expect?

Hundreds of people in India will start taking courses in Janitorial
Engg. And our Chandra Babu, along with secular Vajpai and AICTE, will
give green signal to start *janitorial engg, janitorial techonology*
in our colleges. Thousands of people will be joining in queues at US
consulates around India. And our Reddy parents will be looking for
Reddy janitor son(daughter)-in-laws thru online matrimonials.
Janitorial Industry Analysis group headed by Chlesia Clinton will be
launched at McKinsey.


Damn India, Damn IT, Damn Money, Damn Reddy!
----------------------jkhkj--------------------------
Manam gaunlola thoni equal ainam Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3429 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: What ????

No different is he from other silicon valley hi-tech
coolies/itenerants working at HP/Intel/MS/SUN etc., saying that
Computers are intelligent and blah-blah while sipping coffee at
downtown starbucks!

After all, any problem that is solvable(computable) can be
represented by a boolean matrix. Even the so-called AI heuristics
helps us to make faster decisions. For example, sorting can be done
is brute-force manner. In other words the ascending/descending order
of set of elements, A, is one permutation among many factorial(|A|)
permutations if the elements of A are distinct.


Universal turing machine = Boolean matrix = Boolean circuit(here the
circuit complexity plays role what is lower bound of the depth of a
circuit etc in VLSI complexity)


It is a relationship b/w film-producer and a minister. No need to
construe this as goud-reddy affair. Human relations is economical,
Amen!

Even these phrases like "I am too intelligent", "secular God is only
one there for salvation of entire mankind" etc sprang from "Bhraanti
of intellect."

I will deal with these hip-hop, a job at MS, or a publication in
FOCS/STOC etc variants if situation demands.

Sorry for intrusion. DOnt treat my post as an offence.


--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Mallikharjun Reddy
wrote:
> That's right satish. We can imagine his caliber.I
> think he is "toooo intelligent" in studies and have
> extra avogations.
-----------------jkhjkk-------------------------------
Advanced Start Topic
Manam gaunlola thoni equal ainam Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3426 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Manam gaunlola thoni equal ainam

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Mallikharjun Reddy
wrote:
> Hi,
> Never no other community will be equal to reddy.

Tens of mails had been exchanged on this list wrt formation of 'reddy
group' or its variants. I suspect, first of all, how many of those
undestand how these jaatis whether it is maadiga/mala/kamma/reddy are
sustained for few thousand years. Of course, the Indian secular
theories are just blind copies of our theology friends in the West.
What do they say! A christologist says *immoral* whereas his alter
ego secular, or post-colonial tells *moral idiots*! The difference
b/w immoral and 'moral idiots' is tantamount to the comparision
of 'dead' and 'expired'.

THis is what the so-called secular schools are teaching in India.
Never do this so-called reddy community care to probe beyond the
secular gospel as to why and whats of reddys!

Reverse engg of present social interactions provides valuable
insights to past social dynamics.

For example consider these social groups are *partially closed*(akin
to closure operation in abstract math) under some social factors. The
reddy-goud affair falls into the class(equivalent class) of money, $1
+ $1 = $3, but not $2!
-------------------jkhjkhk-----------------------------------------
Fed: Darkness under the lamp Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3412 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Fed: Darkness under the lamp

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, arjun dyapa
wrote:
> Then go back where you come from. If you are living here, if you
> are not don't worry about USA. stay cool Mr.Reddy.

If I were worried I would have become "secular hindu", or
another 'reformist hindu.' Never do I believe in either.
----------------lkjkl---------------------------------
Universalization of Theology and its child--Secularism Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3411 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Here are the points Abrahamics making. We got to
deconstruct their base before analysing their child
secularism(s.abrahamic.xian.protestant.secular)

#1:

(a) The Biblical god made a covenant with some people.
(The people of Israel?)

(b) He enjoins individuals to keep the 'moral law'.
(What is it?)

(c) This 'moral law' is "written in the hearts of
every man" (written by whom or by what?)

(d) If an individual keeps this 'moral law', he/she
can enter the heaven of this Biblical god. (But such
obviously is the nature of this 'moral law' that very
few individuals can keep it.)

(e) Jesus claimed that he was the Christ and, as the
prophesied one, that any one who intends to go the
heaven of this Biblical god can do so, if the
individual in question follows Jesus.

(f) The conditions for entering the heaven of the
Biblical god are (i) the permission of the Biblical
god (it is called 'grace'); (ii) keeping the 'moral
law'; (iii) following this guy, Jesus.

(g) Jesus is alleged to have claimed the following:
that he is the (only?) son of the Biblical god, and
that he is qualified (?) to speak in the name of his
father.

(h) And that the pearly gates of the heaven of this
Biblical god are open to anyone who fulfils the
conditions set out under (f).


If this is all abrahamics are saying, we have no
problems with this story. Whoever wants to go to the
heaven of this Biblical god may do whatever he/she
wants to in order to gain entry there.

However, if one(or child of protestant-damn secular)
want to *extend* any of these claims further, we need
to find out from those junkies what their reasons are.
These extensions include the following:

#2

(a) The Biblical god is the only or the true one.
There is no other entity like him and those who make
even vaguely analogous claims are false gods.

(b) His heaven is also the only one.

(c) He is the one who has written the 'moral law' in
the hearts of all men, and what he has written is also
the only version.

(d) All human beings, past, present and future, have
only one set of choices; either they fulfil the
conditions set out under #1(f) or, if they do not,
this Biblical god has the power to send them all to
eternal damnation.

(e) There is also a unique Hell that receives every
human being that does not fulfil the conditions to
enter into heaven.

(f) Any human being who worships any other entity than
this Biblical god will, by virtue of that act, be sent
to Hell for eternity. Etc.


This is what I call extensions/universalization of
theology on which secular idealogy is based!

The 'enkatesu alias abrahamu' for whom the so-called
seculars, commies, congies, 'ho-ho' intellegnsia
ostensibly fighting against 'hindu devil #2(a)' feels
different from his secular counterpart, a secular
protestant in France/Italy.

For example, even though he converted to Xianity,
thanks to famines and social evils, he presumes that
"Jesus" is another kind of Rama or Krishna. He equates
'luck #1(f)'to Adrishta(na dhrista; that cant be seen;
karmic reasoning.)

so are most of the words in Indian lingos. 80% of the
words in Samskrita can be traced to 'describing the
indescribable' whether these were used by
naastikas/astikas/strippers.
-----------------------jkjkjk---------------------
secularism, communism Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3397 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
To clarify various issues: I am not a secular but a
heathen.

The audacious assumption that the opposite of
'communism, or its variant secularism' is 'capitalism'
is the communist propaganda.

The phrase 'secular Hindu' is oxymoron! First our
secular hindu friends should discern the History minus
illogical rhetoric.


It has been typical characteristic of western writings
on other cultures (including India) to characterise
the latter using terms that are only appropriate to
describe individual psychologies: X culture is stupid,
degenerate, and irrational; Y culture is childish,
immature, intuitive, feminine, etc. To simply repeat
these mantras after them is to achieve very little
understanding. This is what Indian seculars are
engaged in. The Indian seculars' main source of 'Hindu
bashing' came from Indology(an offshoot of primitive
theology[there is no 'hindu theology', nor 'vedic
theology']) and its spin off 'RISA-Religions in South
Asia.'


The anti-communist movement never believed its
purpose for the Soviet bloc was to replace communism
with "capitalism"; its concerns were democracy, human
rights, freedom of speech, first of all probably
freedom of religion(the secular morons dont know the
difference b/w religion and tradition.) The
oppositeof communism is freedom. A religion per se is
Abrahamic. A jesuit with 'secular cloths' studing
social sciences at U of Chicago, UCB etc sundry
schools will look for 'Rabbi-Mullah-Missionary',
'Qabalah-Koran-Bible', 'Synagogue-Mosque-Church' type
primitive notions in Indic culture/traditions. Hence
the main concern of anti-communist movement of the
West is to liberate people from another *atheistic
religion(communism, or atheistic offshoot of Abrahamic
junk)*

The naastikas and Charvakas of the past are totally
different from atheists of Abrahamic world. The
secular Indians missed this point.

For example, Christianity(US of A) joined with another
abrahamic cousin(mojahiddins-Wahabism) to wipe out
another Abrahamic atheistic religion, called
communism, in Afghanistan during 80's. Does this ring
a bell? Here the fight is b/w Theo(God; the word
theology came after the jealous Greek God Theo; hence
the word 'hindu theosophy' and its sunken variant
'theosophical society' of HP Blavatsky & Ann Besant
Inc are oxymoronic for Indic traditions unless one
converts to 'Secular Abrahamism' ) and Atheo(no God.)

This is palpable in NYT and WSJ if you thumb through
their columns.

In NYT, the Editorial gang bashes Christianity esp
Roman Catholic(why? Never do these Indian secular
junkies understand this. The so-called roman catholics
are descendants of 'Then roman pagans.' And Vatican
allows these catholics to practice their old pagan
customs/habits etc); whereas the moderate
conservatives of WSJ( or catholics if you peel off the
secular layer) supports
Church-Missionary-Vatican-Bible, and joins with its
secular counterpart NYT to flagellate Indic traditions
eventhough they differ wrt catholic/franscican etc vs.
secular. Why do they do, stupid?


The Communist coup d'état of October/November 1917,
overthrowing the liberal democracy installed in
February/March 1917, was financed by New York
capitalists along with the governments of Germany and
Austria, supposedly "capitalist" countries. Many
leftist non-communist ideologues claim that Soviet
communism amounted to 'state capitalism'. At any
rate, its economic system, though connected with
other dimensions of the regime, was not what was so
revolting and inhuman about it. Do these secular
lunatics know this?

In communism, the commoner esp low middle and low-low
can only dream of 'money, riches etc.'; In capitalism,
these 'money and its variants' are Tantalus to
commoners. Similarly, the top brass of capitalism and
that of communism would like to exchange their
positions/power etc.


Moreover, even at the height of the Cold War,
communist felt quite at home in American cultural and
educational institutions. Many more anti-communists
lost their jobs in the film industry than did
communists under Joseph McCarthy.

Don't forget the post-Cold-War concerns. Indian
secularists have always given verbal support to
Islamic and Christian terrorists who kill Hindus and
Indian soldiers. The American government or its
affiliates have given material support to the same.

For more on secularism:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ReddyOnline/message/2737
---------------------lklkkl=------------
Fed: Darkness under the lamp Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3395 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Forward:

giravani@J...> wrote:


Who decides what is wrong and right?
Is everything USA does right? What right alien antrops
got to judge
the
other peoples' custom?
In USA, wife sues husband after getting pregnant from
his friend. The
judge looking at the wickedness of the bitch lady and
wicked attorny
thows away his gown resigned and went home.
A girl pushes her new born baby in toilet and come to
dance in prom.
A woman kills her two children by driving them in the
lake to have a
boy
friend. Older brother's ex-wife starts dating young
brother.

Listen to Dr. Laura and you see the trash scattered
in the every
corner
of the houses of these alien antrops. Which screwed up
society has
right
to critisize the custom that in India ladies eat after
serving men
in the
house. What is wrong in it? Who are wasps and termites
to judge other
peoples' custom? If your customs are holy to you,
then my customs
are
holy to me.If Sadam's anthrax was chemical and
biological weapon,
then
what was agent orange, a milk spray?
---------------k;jlk--------------------------
Seeking a suitable Groom for my cousin. Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3393 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Any idea on naxalite movement?

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Udaya Bhaskar Reddy
wrote:
> How many so called non-secular pious followers of god
> believe and practise of this kind of secularism as
> mentioned in our Vedas, yoga etc...

If you had understood the process of secularisation, the
affix 'secular' to the people of Indic traditions irrespective of
whether they believe divinity in matter-energy ensemble or not would
be oxymoron!


I laugh at the phrases such as "I am secular atheistic/theistic/poly
theistic/mono theistic/agnostic hindu." The seculars who use these
terms should spend more time to learn 'Philosophy/origins of
secularism' rather than parrotting Abrahamic social sciences with
new garb.


Hence I wont be damned by 'naastika hindus'; Never do I bother about
others in Indic traditions as long as one is not interfering with my
freedom even if they pratice 'public orgy.'


The central question is that whether these moronic secular hindus do
understand 'secularism' first!

The same seculars ape the Western social-sciences intelligentia
writing without inquisition.

Secular Ethics: This is another form of "Christian ethics" harped by
Western Intelligentia.

For example, the so called seculars inundate the media/text books
about kaama sutra that Indians are immoral etc.

The varieties of the honorable stories of adultery and the
cunningness of the lovers in the folklore and the popular literature
of every language of India is unparalleled in the world literature
as for the sexual pleasures. The Arabian nights is a pale shadow
compared to the stories in the referred literature.

But after having this document, what is the objective ? Practice
them and experiment with it? Blame the previous generation ? Pride
that we are more civilized?

The author of `Kamashastra' mentions as to why his work
has all such details ? After a study of all the ways of the world,
and the worldly perversions , one should learn to lead the
disciplined life which helps to attain the goal of the `four fold
values (=purushartha) of life.' And if that is not done, what is the
use of this life? Why dont these abrahamic fundamentalists aka
secularists mention this?


Money and Greed:

All this relate to the basic concept of how a person, if he is true
followe of Indic traditions' lives his personal and family life ?
What is going to be his/her `bank balance of various resources of
food –clothe-money' and the like.

The concept is as follows:- If the person firmly believes that Atman
takes care of the needs ( not in a fatalistic way!)- then there is
no need to `store' a safety stock of food-clothe-money for self or
the family. The guidelines are given as follows:-

The true `devotee' will retain the resources needed for the
survival' to the limit of one day. (Ref.Shankaracharya – `kartala
bhiksha; tarutala vaasah; ;Kaupeenavantah kahlu bhagyavantah. One
who has the minimum of maintenance of even the clothe to the extent
of one + one loin clothe , hand is the `vessel', the shelter of the
tree is the house.) The next level of a `family devotee' is he /she
shall maintain for the resources of `one day' for the sake of
family members. The next level of a family devotee engaged in the
worldly activity stretches from three days to one year, for a
bramhin.;And for a King, due to his responsibility to maintain the
`kingdom', the maximum period is twelve years.

Whom do these seculars blame? They blame 'the indic traditions as a
whole', rather than the individuals, a typical missionary trick, eh!


Westerner sees the other people/culture with his worldview(abrahamic
world view whether he is Xian/Atheist/Secular/protestant.) We can
forgive these souls but not the secular hindus who enchant the
mantras revelaed by their western secular counterparts. This is what
I call mapping others' experience as your own. Naxalism, Secularism,
even democracy(mind that democratic Britain colonised the world,
introduced apartheid) are a few of them.
-------------------kjklj--------------------------------------
Seeking a suitable Groom for my cousin. Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3384 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Any idea on naxalite movement?

There are two kinds of Abrahamic expansion in this world.

1) Proselytization: We know this very well in our villages. Thanks to
famine, we saw 'rice christians.' I dont give a hoot to these things.
Never do I worry about these kind of conversions(my personal opinion.)

2) Universalization of Abrahamic thought, thanks to Protestant vs.
Catholic schism within Xianity. This 'secularism' is a child of this
ignonimous union. Our bastard putras, esp English educated Congy
leaders of the past learnt this, thanks to Macaulay, Brits rule
('Xianity' is implied.) In so called 'secular schools', we
learn 'generalization of western experiences in Social sciences' and
map these on our own experiences. Thus we see what we see. This is
perilous to entire humanity.

Mind that I am against any "interfering with others' universe of
freedom.' The intersection of 'various individual freedom spheres'
and 'various societal freedom spheres' give clues as to how various
social phenomenons are operated such as from 'jaati
bhaasha', 'jaatyantara bhaasha' to inter/intra caste tussles,
marriages etc.

The bastards in social sciences should learn the nature and
foundations first before delving into sensitive matters and
promulgating junk in secular schools.



Thanks to kaala(time), we are deeply sunk in frozen notions.




Kaala pacati bhUtaani sarvaani evatmanatmaani
Yasmims tu pacyate kaalas tam na vedeha kascana || MB 12.231.25

Tr: Time cooks all beings by itself, but no one here knows him in
whom time is cooked.

The 'moksha', 'swarga', 'aananda' exist in this life only.
Experiencing the same is up to you.

veda-s, yoga are not caste/varna specific. You can become rishi by
practising 'yoga samaadhi.' No need to learn vedaangas(vyakarana,
chandas, nirukta etc. Our seculars, reformers missed this whole point.

The secular bastards chew the same junk preached by "Missionaries, or
western intelligentia."


On naxalism:

It takes to `socialism': `Nehruvian' socialism, the socialism of
Lohia, the socialist attempts of the communist parties of India. Just
as these experiments take-off, this culture starts exploring *their
limits* even before a new generation is born: the Naxalites and the
ML movement in Bengal impact India's youth in different parts of
India and both socialisms (of Lohia and of Nehru) begin to crack
under the pressure of events even as, in the late 60's, people
elsewhere in the world begin to discover `student power'. Many
activist youth groups emerge in different parts of India, born
outside the existing left, but already radicalised. Just as these
groups appeared to run out of steam, the Indian culture paused, and
as though considering, plunges into another massive
experimentation: `Dalit' movement, `secessionist' movements, which
pits not the bourgeoisies against the proletariat but groups against
each other. Even as these impact the culture, through `reservation
policies' and contraction of the living space for some of India's
children, a new experimentation begins: it is time for *ratha yatra*
and Babri Masjid. This experimentation still continues and as it
does, this entity launches yet another with no parallels in human
history: the Indian culture sends two or more millions of its members
to America. This is no exodus, much less of an exile, even if these
members insist on speaking of the `Diaspora'.

What has Indian culture found out through all these experiments? Some
of India's children still continue with these experiments; some have
ceased doing so. This means either some answers are no answers at all
or at best, partial ones. Is India `socialist'? Or is she the
proletariat? Or, perhaps, the landless peasant? Is she the `Dalit',
or merely the `woman'? Has she always been a Sikh, a Tamil or a
Marathi, and never a single entity? Is she a `Hindu', a Muslim or
merely `secular'?


I will get back to this group about PUCL and American Academic
intelligentia along with a rejoinder to Pucl report referred by Uday.



> I am curious to know what your educational and professional
> background is... Also, what exactly is your area of expertise ?
> history ..philosophy.. anthropology..?

educational: Graduated in computing.
professional: looking for a job;-)
--------------------jhkjhjk--------------------------------------
Seeking a suitable Groom for my cousin. Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3369 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Any idea on naxalite movement?

Amen to this poster!

Adapting western notions, Mapping Secular Ideologies(liberal, cons,
neocons, neolibs) onto their experiences, a typical english educated
Indian is sinking very deeply in 'universalization of
secular/abrahamic theology, _I am holier-than-thou_, my god is the
only one for salvation.'



--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Udaya Bhaskar Reddy
wrote:
> How many of us know about the naxalite movement ?
> Aren't TV media news reports appear to be stage
> managed by the feudal landlords.
>
> A report that makes you think.....
>
> http://www.pucl.org/reports/AndhraPradesh/naxalites.htm
>
> This is about social movements in AP, India. Ignore
> this message if found irrelevant.
------------------kklkl--------------------
Check this out!!! Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3350 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Love marriage vs Arranged marriage

I credit Karl Marx for the maxim: "Human relations is economical."
----------------kjljkl-----------------------
Romila Thapar's appointment to Library of Congress opposed Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3284 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
The Western Masters have rewarded their loyal poodle.



Rediff.com
Romila Thapar's appointment to
Library of Congress opposed

April 25, 2003 05:33 IST


A petition is circulating on the Internet against the
appointment of
Professor Romila Thapar as First Holder of the Kluge
Chair in
Countries and Cultures of the South at the Library of
Congress.

The petitioners allege that she is a Marxist and
anti-Hindu and it
is a waste of US money to support a Leftist.

The Librarian of Congress, James H Billington,
appointed Thapar last
week and she has already started work, Robert
Saladini, a
spokesperson for the library, said. He said he has no
information on
the petition.

The petition can be viewed at:
http://www.petitiononline.com/108india/petition.html

The holder of the chair, which is located in the John
W Kluge Center
of the Library of Congress, pursues research on the
regions of
Africa, Latin America, West Asia, South and Southeast
Asia, or the
islands of the Pacific including Australia and New
Zealand, using
the immense foreign language collections in the
specialised reading
rooms of the Library of Congress.

Thapar will spend ten months at the John W Kluge
Center
pursuing 'Historical Consciousness in Early India' as
her area of
research.

Thapar, emeritus professor of Ancient Indian History
at Jawaharlal
Nehru University in New Delhi, who has served as
visiting professor
at Cornell University and the University of
Pennsylvania, is an
authority on Indian history.

The author of many seminal works on the history of
ancient India,
her volume of the 'Penguin History of India' has been
continuously
in print since 1966. Her latest publication is 'Early
India: From
the Origins to AD 1300'. Other recent works are
'History and Beyond'
and 'Cultural Pasts: Essays in Early Indian History'.

She has held many visiting posts in Europe, the United
States and
Japan. She is an Honorary Fellow at Lady Margaret
Hall, Oxford, and
at the School of Oriental and African Studies,
University of London.
She has honorary doctorates from the University of
Chicago, the
Institute National des Langues et Civilisations
Orientales in Paris,
the University of Oxford and the University of
Calcutta.

Through a generous endowment from John W Kluge, the
Library of
Congress established the center in 2000 to bring
together the
world's best thinkers to stimulate, energise, and
distil wisdom from
the library's rich resources and to interact with
policy makers in
Washington, DC.

The center houses five senior Kluge Chairs.

The petitioners say: "It is a great travesty that
Romila Thapar has
been appointed the first holder of the Kluge Chair.

"In regards to India, she is an avowed antagonist of
India's Hindu
civilization as a well-known Marxist. She represents a
completely
Euro-centric worldview. I fail to see how she can be
the correct
choice to represent India's ancient history and
civilization.

"She completely disavows that India ever had a
history. The ongoing
campaign by Romila Thapar and others to discredit
Hindu civilization
is a war of cultural genocide. By your unfortunate
selection of
Thapar, America is now aiding and abetting this
effort."

The petition has 133 signatures already. One of the
signatories,
Hari Singh, said: "The comments from Ms Thapar are
disgusting and
are reflection of her ignorance of Indian History."

Venkatesh, another signatory, commented, "It's a shame
to the USA &
Indian govt. that a Communist like Romila Thapar is
having a free
run."
-----------------------jhjkhjk------------------------------------------
The English Class System Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3273 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Incisive analysis of English-educated Indian elite.

Rgds, VR.


The English Class System by Sankrant Sanu ~ Apr 22,
2003

http://www.sulekha.com/column.asp?cid=305803


Excerpt:

India, like many other former colonies, suffers from a
class-system
based on knowledge of the erstwhile colonial language,
which in the
case of India is English. This class system has
manifested as a
preference and social status given to people that
spoke most like
their masters, with a hierarchy starting from the
"Queen's English,"
to "Convent educated," to "Public school education",
to fluent
but "accented English", to "broken English", to lack
of English, at
which point someone may as well belong to the
"unwashed, ignorant,
masses." Given, the strong influence of Marxist theory
in social
studies programs conducted in English in Indian
universities, one
would imagine that such an obvious English-based class
system would
be a subject of considerable discussion and study in
India. It turns
out, instead, that the English-medium academic elite
intent on
discussing European theories such as "communism" and
"post-
modernism", all with a good stiff upper lip, have
obsessed instead
with what their English master's had told them quite
early on they
must do –"Caste is class, comrade!" all the while
neglecting the
bigger issue of class right under their noses.
----------------jkljkk-------------------------
"Paavanii" 5-day residential Samskrita camp-May22-26 Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3272 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Forward:

Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 10:39:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Vasuvaj"



Namaste.
Please try to attend this camp.Do forward this message
to all your friends.

Unique opportunity to learn Samskritam in a fun-filled
camp

Samskrita Bharati
(http://www.samskrita-bharati.org)
Organizes

Paavanii
A 5-day Residential Samskritam Camp

Where? Camp Nawaka, East Otis, MA.
(http://www.nawaka.org)
(120 miles west of Boston)

When? Thu May 22 to Mon May 26, 4pm
(Reporting time Wed 21, 8:00 PM)

Faculty? Shri Krishna Shastri,
( Founder-Organizing Secretary )
And other dedicated volunteer-instructors
of Samskrita Bharati.

Levels? Beginner (NO prior knowledge of Samskritam)
Intermediate I and II
(Some familiarity with Samskritam)
Advanced (Good conversational skills &
Intermediate grammar)

Fees? $250 (1st person in the family);
$225 (2nd); $200 (3rd);
Additional person: $175/-

$600/- Special Family rate!!
(A family of 2 adults and 1 or more children)
Children below 8 years free!!

$175/- for students



Participants are encouraged to attend with family.
Special programs for kids.

Fee includes lodging, food and study-materials.
Various sessions with emphasis on Spoken Samskritam,
selected portions from Literature and Grammar.
Also activities like yoga, prANAyAma, games and
entertainment programs will be in simple and
easy-to-understand Samskritam. All in a beautiful
and a natural environ similar to our ancient
gurukulam.

A rare opportunity indeed to learn to speak in
Samskritam.

Register online:
http://www.samskrita-bharati.org/registration.html
OR
Call by April 30

Sivaram : 781-279-3295
Rajesh Rachabhattuni : 703-691-8605
Giri Bharathan : 978-362-1715
Krishna Kumar : 781-284-2431

Email: paavanii2003@...
Web:
http://www.samskrita-bharati.org/courses.html#maypaavanii


Treat yourself to a wonderful retreat this spring.
Seats are limited.
Call early to reserve yours & avoid disappointment!

Samskrita Bharati is a voluntary organization
dedicated to bring Samskritam back to daily life.

jayatu samskrtam! jayatu manukulam!
-----------------------jkljklkl-----------------------------
Fw: A Glimpse At The Seldom Discussed Son Of Nehru Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3270 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
A Glimpse At The Seldom Discussed Son Of Nehru
by: Rahul Soni


It is not only the son of Nehru that people seldom discuss, there
are many other matters concerning the Nehrus that have escaped the
attention of our people. Such lack of attention is not necessarily a
phenomenon that affects the foreigners; it is only the Indians,
primarily the Hindus of India, who suffer from such lack of
perception. It is our own people who do not know in depth their
leaders. That is a shame! We saw how the British got rid of then
Prince of Wales, Edward VIII, for reasons of an unacceptable
marriage with the twice divorced Wallis woman! A very common
question about the Nehrus, if asked, inevitably draws a wrong answer
or at best, no answer at all, from even the knowledgable literati of
the Indian media, teachers and professors, politicians and
ministers, etc.

The question is: "Who was the (paternal) grandfather of Rajiv
Roberto Gandhi, son of Indira, daughter of Jawahar Lal Nehru?" And
you will not be surprised to hear that most people, including even
the Ph.D.s of Indian Universities reply right away that it was
Pandit Jawahar Lal Nehru. People forget that Jawahar was only the
maternal grandfather and NOT the paternal grandfather! No one seems
to know that Rajiv Roberto's father was Firoz Khan (who had changed
his name by an affidavit to avoid arousing attention of the people
of India, primarily Hindus) and therefore, the (paternal)
grandfather of Rajiv was the father of Firoz. His name was Nawab
Khan, a Sunni Moslem who used to supply liquor to the Nehru family.

Having said that let us look a little closer at the marital life of
Jawahar. His wife was Kamala Nehru (née Kaul) and she was maltreated
by Jawahar's sister Nan (later named Vijay Lakshmi); the other
sister, Krishna, was much younger and therefore less aggressive
toward Kamala. Kamala had a miserable existence in the Nehru family.
She was a vegetarian and never touched alcohol in any form. Her
kitchen was quite separate from the Mohammedan cook's quarters of
Jawahar's part of the Anand Bhavan. Partition had already started in
the house (once called Ishrat Manzil) built by Mobarak Ali, the
renowned lawyer of the City of Allah or Allahabad, Moti Lal's
employer.

Kamala eventually died in Switzerland of tuberculosis after a long
bout with the disease. Daughter Indira, who had a totally un-Hindu
upbringing was left to herself. The senior aunt, Nan (later Vijaya
Lakshmi) was herself running after unhealthy company terminating in
an elopement with a Moslem man called Syud Husain. Some say Syud was
an illegitimate son of Moti Lal and that was the primary reason for
Moti Lal's refusal to agree to the marriage with Syud, for then it
would be a marriage between half siblings. There could be no other
reason for an agnostic like Moti Lal, whose most intimate friends
were all Mohammedans, to have refused his blessing to Nan's wedding
with Syud!

Be that as it may, as soon as Kamala Nehru (wife of Jawahar) died,
whatever restrictions, real or imaginary there had been, in the way
of keeping a check on Jawahar's conduct vis à vis other women,
disappeared. The prime minister of India, a widower, started
conducting himself absolutely
shamelessly. He started running after skirts and saris, gave up all
important work connected with the wellbeing of the state of India
and her people. Other than looking after the members of his own
immediate family, such as promoting Vijay Lakshmi in the UNO,
clearing the path of his own daughter to the post of the future
prime minister of India, etc. he had no other interests. Huge
territories of India were taken over by communist China, once
Nehru's good friend; Kashmir was attacked by Islamic Pakistan but he
would not care. Weren't there more interesting items to pay
attention to? There was Edwina of course but then there were also
many more to attend to!

Here we will take our reader to the pages written by M.O. Mathai, a
South Indian Catholic from Kerala, who served Nehru for many years
as his Personal Assistant. Mathai writes in his Reminiscences of the
Nehru Age in the chapter Nehru and Women (pg. 206-207):

"In the autumn of 1948 a young woman from Benares arrived in New
Delhi as a sanyasini named Shradha Mata. She was a Sanskrit scholar
and well versed in ancient Indian scriptures and mythology. People,
including MPs, thronged to her to hear her discourses. One day, S.D.
Upadhyaya, Nehru's old employee, brought a letter in Hindi from
Shradha Mata about whom he spoke very highly. Nehru gave her an
interview in the PM's house. As she departed, I noticed that she was
young, shapely and beautiful. Meetings with her became rather
frequent, mostly after Nehru finished his work at night. During one
of Nehru's visits to Lucknow, Shradha Mata turned up there, and
Upadhyaya brought a letter from her as usual. Nehru sent her the
reply; and she visited Nehru at midnight. Padmaja was hysterical...

"Suddenly Shradha Mata disappeared. In November 1949 a convent in
Bangalore sent a decent-looking person to Delhi with a bundle of
letters. He said that a young woman from northern India arrived at
the convent a few months ago and gave birth to a baby boy. She
refused to divulge her name or give any particulars about herself.
She left the convent as soon as she was well enough to move out but
left the child behind. She however forgot to take with her a small
cloth bundle in which, among other things, several letters in Hindi
were found.

"The Mother Superior, who was a foreigner, had the letters examined
and was told they were from the Prime Minister. The person who
brought the letters surrendered them. But he declined to give his
name, or the name of the Mother Superior, or the name and address of
the convent. Nehru was told of the facts. He tore off the letters
without any emotion reflected in his face. He showed no interest in
the child then or later...

Says Mathai:"I made discreet enquiries repeatedly about the boy but
failed to get a clue about his whereabouts. Convents in such matters
are extremely tightlipped and secretive. Had I succeeded in locating
the boy, I would have adopted him. He must have grown up as a
Catholic Christian blissfully ignorant of who his father was."

It is quite possible that if the bastard son of Nehru could be
located, he and not Indira would have ruled India. Elsewhere, in the
same book, Mathai writes:"Some of the great men in the past have
been 'bastards'. Confucius and Leonardo da Vinci are classic
examples. In modern times we have had Ramsay MacDonald and now Willy
Brandt."

However, for those readers who are disappointed in not having
Nehru's bastard son as India's ruler, there is nothing to lose.
Writes Mathai elsewhere in the same book (pg. 94):"For some
inexplicable reason, Nehru allowed the marriage (between Indira and
Feroze) to be performed according to Vedic rites in 1942. An inter-
religious and intercaste marriage under Vedic rites at that time was
not valid in law. To be legal, it had to be a civil marriage. So,
strictly under the law, Indira was only a 'concubine' and her
children are 'bastards'." So, Rajiv, a 'bastard' by this definition
replaced the other 'bastard', the unknown son of Jawahar. However,
this incident of secret delivery of Jawahar's bastard son at the
convent drastically limited Nehru's personal and prime ministerial
freedom. He became overly subservient to the Catholic lobby and the
GoI became absolutely powerless in matters concerning the missionary
fathers and their vile practices to convert India's poor. However,
Nehru had to pay the price too. He died of syphilis.
-----------------------kllkk----------------------
have u heard of www.germanystinks.com and more..have a look Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3269 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: have u heard of www.germanystinks.com and more..have a look

Can we distinguish crusaders(a la CROSS) from Jihadists(typical
Wahabism), cant we?

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "jithendra_p"
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> look at these websites almost after the Gulfwar 2 episode is going
to
> complete.
>
> http://www.germanystinks.com
> http://www.francestinks.com
> http://www.welovetheiraqiinformationminister.com
> http://www.bigboots.us
>
> enjoy! modern american hitler bush's country mates job was this!!!
>
> ciao
> Jithendra
------------kjjkjkkj-
Gandhi, Nazis and Bad Hindus Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3249 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Published in the India Post, April 4

Gandhi, Nazis and Bad Hindus
By Frawley, D.

It is amazing how little American journalists know
about other countries
and can be easily taken in by false reporting. This is
particularly true
relative to India which American journalists seldom
visit and rarely study
except superficially! Few know any Indian languages
apart from English. Most
take uncritically what they find in certain English
language newspapers in
India as the final truth, though these represent only
a small segment of
Indian society. If they do go to India, they hang out
mainly in expensive
bars and five star hotels in big cities, interacting
only with a certain
class of western educated Indian journalists and never
get beyond a narrow
and hostile view of the country.
As a westerner myself who, though more a Vedic
scholar than a
professional journalist, has had articles published in
many newspapers in
India, including Times of India, the Hindu, Hindusthan
Times and Indian
Express, I continue to be amazed by the amount of
inaccurate and manipulated
reporting about India that comes out in the West,
reflecting political biases
from Indian and other sources that are seldom
scrutinized.
The most common such propaganda device that
turns up in western
reporting is what I call the "Gandhi-Nazi" ploy. An
attempt is made to
discredit certain Hindu groups under the guise that
they are abandoning
Gandhi and non-violence and have Nazi sympathies and
tactics instead.
Of course everyone likes Gandhi who was a
harmless and saintly person
(and who is usually the only Indian leader that
Americans know of). And no
one likes fascists and Nazis. So it is a good
emotional trick to influence
people who probably don't want to take the time to
really study the politics
of India which are even more complex than those of the
United States.
The implication is that such Darth Vader Hindu
fascists should be
opposed at all costs and prevented from gaining power
for the sake of India's
Gandhian legacy, religious tolerance and secularism
and all other wholesome
values. To try to support or defend them, on the other
hand, is to be a
Gandhi murderer and Hitler admirer. So it is naturally
quite politically
incorrect to raise any objections in their favor or
even to try to qualify
this wholesale condemnation of them.
Such anti-Gandhian pro-fascist Hindu groups are
usually said to
include BJP, RSS and VHP, who are blamed for having
murdered Gandhi (though
no charges were ever proved in any court of law that
we in the West are
supposed to respect) and quoted as having long been
Nazi sympathizers (though
they sided with the allies in World War II). But the
purpose of such
reporting is not to engender critical thinking but to
encourage negative
emotional reactions.

Behind the Emotional Ploy

Such emotional ploys usually hide the bias or
political agenda of those
who are promoting it, which is not hard to find if one
takes a little trouble
to look. The labeling of one's enemies as fascists is
the oldest leftist and
communist propaganda ploy there is. Nor surprisingly,
we see that most such
writers, if we examine their own political
backgrounds, are usually Indian
Marxists and leftists and rarely Hindus, much less
Gandhians. Marxism still
has a strong hold in academic and journalistic circles
in India, a fact that
we in America tend to forget in the post-communist
era. Even the state of
Bengal today has a Marxist government which still
honors Stalin and Mao.
Another curious fact is that most such writers
who complain about
India abandoning non-violence, like Pakistan lamenting
India's abandoning of
Gandhian policies by testing nuclear weapons, do not
believe in non-violence
themselves. You would not find these Indian
journalists criticizing Islamic
Jihadi attacks or communist caused violence anywhere
in the world. They were
remarkably silent about the 9/11 attack on America.
Some even thought it was
justified, but as staunch leftists most are generally
anti-American in their
views anyway.
Yet it is not only certain Hindu groups they
call fascists but many
others that we Americans would never consider as such.
For example, some like
N. Ram of the Hindu, regarded as one of India's
foremost journalists
according to Sixty Minutes on which he appeared
relative to a story on IIT,
have called the Dalai Lama a fascist as well (because
he is against the
Chinese communists). This is not surprising given that
N. Ram a few years ago
proposed that the communist chief minister of Bengal,
Jyoti Basu, was the
ideal person to become the Prime Minister of the
India.
Such writers have called great Hindu leaders
from the ancient Vedantic
philosopher Shankara to the modern yogi Sri Aurobindo,
fascists and many
others on quite a long list. They similarly consider
practices like Yoga,
Ayurveda and Vedic astrology and the demand for
protection of cows to be
quite regressive (if not fascist) and even view the
Sanskrit language with
suspicion as if promoting it was another form of Hindu
communalism. For
example, JNU where many of these journalists hail from
has a large language
department, including Spanish and Arabic, but no
Sanskrit!
I have experienced this myself as a writer for
Vedic causes in India.
Though I promote vegetarianism, animal rights, Yoga
and Ayurveda, and am
active in the ecological movement (and have never
voted Republican in my
life), mainly because of my support for a Vedic nature
to ancient Indian
civilization (reflecting recent archaeological finds
in India, notably the
Sarasvati River), I have also been called a fascist by
the same group of
Indian journalists, who probably haven't read a thing
I have written. Often
they don't even get my name right, but they have no
doubt that I am a well
known fascist. One can see that their idea of fascist
includes anyone who
disagrees with them on any issue they deem
significant.
Unfortunately, the American left usually gets
taken in by such
propaganda of the Indian left; not recognizing that
the Indian left is still
the old left of the communist era and has very
different views. The Indian
left has little regard for new left issues such as
ecology and rarely has any
spiritual view of life. Most of its leaders are still
hoping for the Soviet
Union to return or for China to go back to Maoism.
Relative to the pro-Nazi charge against Hindu
groups, such journalists
routinely repeat the same quote from the nineteen
thirties of one Hindu
thinker who for a short time expressed admiration for
Germany's national
resurgence under Hitler. These remarks should be put
in their proper context.
Even many Americans like Lindberg expressed admiration
for Germany in the
pre-World War II era before the world knew what Hitler
really was. The
communists under Stalin themselves signed a peace
treaty with Hitler and
praised him then as well. Hitler was also very popular
in the Islamic world
of that time. But such passing remarks are very
different than the long term
action of these people once they saw what Hitler
really represented.
Let's take a statement about Savarkar, who was
mentioned in a recent
Wall Street Journal article as such a Nazi
sympathizer. Savarkar on the
contrary was the main Indian leader who encouraged
Indians to join the
British run Indian Army in World War II as part of the
allied war effort
against Hitler, a move which Gandhi opposed as a
violation of ahimsa. That
doesn't sound like the action of a Nazi sympathizer.
He also first raised the
call for India's independence in Europe in the early
twentieth century at a
convocation of socialists, not fascists! But few will
bother to check the
sources for such statements and see if they are
correct.

The Shadow of the Congress Party and Nehru

Most such writers have their own political
agenda that is usually to
promote the Congress Party in India, which though they
may not entirely agree
with it on all issues is closer to their more Marxist
view of the world. They
try to get Americans to think that the Congress Party
is the progressive
party that will bring the country forward and somehow
is carrying on its
Gandhian legacy.
Congress routinely brings out the Gandhi image
to gain votes and
sympathy but has otherwise long since abandoned any
Gandhian policies
relative to religion, economics, the pursuit of truth
or anything else, as
most Indians know. To think that the Congress Party is
the party of Gandhi is
like thinking that the Republican Party is the party
of Abraham Lincoln.
For example, the current head of the Congress
Party, Sonia Gandhi, has
nothing to do with the kind of austere life-style,
simple living and
spiritual practices that the Mahatma engaged in,
though she may claim to
admire him. Most westerners don't even realize that
her Gandhi name is just a
coincidence and has no real connection to the Mahatma,
but arises from Indira
Gandhi who married a Parsi whose name happened to be
Gandhi also.
Such people are usually Nehruvian, not Gandhian
in their views, a
distinction that is very important to understand.
People in the West don't
realize that Nehru himself was not a Gandhian, but a
Fabian socialist and
agnostic. While Gandhi said he was proud to be a
Hindu, Nehru never made any
such remarks. Gandhi's choice of Nehru, which many
have regarded as Gandhi's
greatest mistake, was not because Nehru shared
Gandhi's mentality or
life-style, but because Nehru represented an aspect of
Indian society that
Gandhi did not. Nehru was more of a British aristocrat
than someone who
really understood the traditions of his country.
Nehru also never followed Gandhian economic
policies but those of the
leftist London School of Economics and Soviet five
year plans. Such
economists invented the "Hindu growth rate" to try to
justify why their
policies failed in India just as they did in Eastern
Europe. In fact, it is
some of the so-called anti-Gandhi Hindu 'fascists'
like the Swadeshi Jagaran
Manch that are promoting Gandhian economics in India,
not the Congress Party.

So this emotional ploy that Gandhi and Nehru
were a team and to
criticize one is to criticize the other, is not at all
correct either. In
fact Gandhi wanted the Congress Party, which later
became the Nehru party, to
be dissolved altogether.
Yet another part of this line of thinking is to
condemn anyone who might
criticize Gandhi, as if they were committing a mortal
sin. That certain Hindu
groups have those among them those who disagree with
Gandhi on various points
is regarded as proof that these organizations are
regressive, if not fascist.
Such people ignore the fact that many great Indian
leaders and thinkers
including Sri Aurobindo, J. Krishnamurti and even
Rabindranath Tagore at
times were critical of Gandhi, who himself referred to
his own Himalayan
blunders. One can criticize Gandhi without rejecting
Gandhi's greatness
altogether, much less being sympathetic to Gandhi's
assassination or a
fascist.
We should remember that Indian leftists and
communists have often been
very critical of Gandhi, though they avoid saying this
in the West today, and
he was opposed to them as well, considering Marxism to
be a dangerous and
erroneous ideology.
Another story that has been coming out recently
is how Hindus are
becoming intolerant and obstructing Christian
missionary activity in India,
as if missionaries had never done any mischief
anywhere. This is an area
where Gandhi is ignored. Such stories would never
quote Gandhi, who himself
described missionary activity as one worst blights on
the spirit of truth and
who strongly criticized it (he even was in favor of a
ban on it in India). By
their account Gandhi would be another fascist because
of the objections he
raised to the missionaries.
This doesn't mean that Hindu groups can't be
criticized or that Hindu
extremists can't be found who might have various
prejudicial views. Nor does
it mean that all Marxists, communists and leftists are
always bad or wrong in
their views or that anyone who criticizes Hindu groups
must be a communist or
perverted in their ideas. It means that to really
understand India, one must
go much deeper than these simplistic propaganda ploys
which after over fifty
years of usage are getting a little monotonous and are
entirely predictable,
like a red flag used to enrage a bull.
Unfortunately such distortions will probably
continue unless Indians
and Indo-Americans make a greater effort to challenge
them. While other
communities in America, including the Islamic
community, have worked hard and
often successfully to counter negative reporting even
in the face of perhaps
greater challenges, the Indian community has been very
lazy and apathetic, as
if it were a mark of tolerance to let one's own
tradition be distorted and
vilified. So in the end it is not western journalists
or even Indian
journalists who are to blame for these prejudices but
the Indians who read
them and remain silent.
-------------------kklkl------------------------------------
On Yugaadi Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3175 of 36214 < Prev | Next >

"Yugaadi: What it is and What it is not" located at
http://www.sulekha.com/articledesc.asp?cid=189599

Addl notes on the same:

The definition of 'yugAdi' in above mentioned article refers
to 'amAnta mAsa' scheme. This clarification was missing in the
article. In the shuklAnta scheme, it is on the pratipadA before such
paurNami (i.e., middle of the maasa). Thus, both yugAdi events are
one and the same. We should not get confused with semantics (amAnta
mAsa vs. shuklAnta mAsa) - there are infinite points in a circle that
can be treated as its beginning. amAnta and shuklAnta are just two of
them. Both are physically observable natural lunation cycles and in
either cycle yugAdi is the same celestial event. It is nakSatramAna
(when Sun AND moon align with mEshAdi), and the yugAdi-to-yugAdi year
duration is one samvatsara (not varSa).

Also to be contrasted is the tradition mostly practiced in Gujarat -
kArtika shukla praThama is treated as yugAdi. I feel this is a mixup.
Historically, on this day king vikramAditya of Ujjaini (c. 58 BC)
returned victorious after defeating the foreign tribes on the western
frontier, and his court pandits declared commencement of vikrama era
on this day to remember this great victory. Hence we have this
"yugAdi" tradition in Gujarat.

The 4*15 = 60 samvatsara names suggest childhood, maturity (adult-
hood), tempering, and decay.

vatsara = casual mother
varSa = tropical year
samvatsara = sidereal year

Rgds,
VR
---------------------jjkjkkj-----------------------
Gandhi and Moplah-s Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3163 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Gandhi and Moplah-s


wrote:
>
> I don't see any root to this discussion kindling again... Welcome
back Shilpika and VNR...
>
> shilpi reddy wrote:
> my god- i cant believe gandhi said this. if he said so it is
atrocious. we were all taken for a ride. i know that his role after
Noakhali incident was dismal.
> regards,
> shilpi

The secular fringe condones the Abrahamic violence by opinionating
*Abrahamic violence is their birthright!*

The best punishment for Seculars is Gigantic-Baghdaad-Shredder.
----------------------------------kjljljk----------------------
A saint vs a patriot Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3158 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
FYI:


1. Problematizing God's Interventions in History by Malhotra, R. at
Sulekha.com

http://www.sulekha.com/column.asp?cid=303135

2. Prof. Balagangadhara lectured on a perennial topic with different
spin at IISC, Bangalore c.01/03

Is Indian Secularism Bankrupt? - A Cultural Analysis

Secularism is the most frequently used term in the Indian political
arena. Its use has been so rampant that variant of secular
like 'pseudo-secular' (psec in short) has been coined in the last
decade. The usage has become so shallow that anybody aligning with
the BJP, RSS and VHP is termed as communal and hence the rest
secular. In turn, the BJP, RSS and VHP have termed anybody opposing
them as pseudo-secular.

Are secular and communal antonyms?
What is the meaning & history of the word secularism?
Is being secular a virtue?
Is secularism relevant in the Indian context?

3. A saint vs a patriot by Arvind, L. at Rediff.com

If you're a Catholic, you'll want to get it banned. If you're an
atheist, you'll be titillated by it. If you're a truly objective
journalist, you'll be shamed by it. If you're an academician, you'll
want to award it a Ph D. And if you're a self-respecting Indian, you
simply must read it so as to be shocked from stupor into reality.

Yes, it's that kind of a book -- Mother Teresa, The Final Verdict
(Meteor Books, Kolkata, 2003, pages 427, price not stated) by Aroup
Chatterjee, born, bred and educated in what was once Calcutta, who
moved to Britain in 1985 and now works as a medical practitioner in
London.

The author's rationale for the book lies in the Teresa-induced image
of a 'living saint' in his native city being internationally
portrayed as one containing an endless number of 'sewers and
gutters' where an endless number of dead and dying people lay --- but
not for long as they were picked up in smart ambulances by 'roving
angels' in the form of nuns belonging to Missionaries of Charity, the
multinational body headed by Mother Teresa. (Page [i] of
Introduction). That Chatterjee is an atheist and a doctor would seem
to have fuelled this probe into one who was labeled by the West and
its Indian sycophants as the 'saint of the gutters' though 'her only
message to the world was that abortion was murder.' (Page 393).

The outcome is a virtual demolition job that devastates, to use the
writer's own words, 'the intense culture of deception surrounding
Mother Teresa' in which 'she herself was the main perpetrator of this
deception.' (Page 387) Six years of research based on his own
video/photographic work, his efforts to seek the truth and published
material cited over 15 printed pages are behind Chatterjee's claim
that 'Mother Teresa had been a publicity hungry and often
hypocritical person…she had not always been honest in her
pronouncements' -- (page 380) 'she even lied even in her Nobel Prize
Acceptance speech' (page 395) of December 1979. His disclosure
that 'the current Pope has beatified a "person" who never existed --
Juan Diego of Mexico' (page 400) and his charge that 'the Vatican is
ruthlessly following a well-defined agenda when creating saints'
(page 401) form part of the detailed narration of his own mortifying
two-year experience of venturing to be a hostile witness to the
ongoing process of canonising Mother Teresa.

Charges of Mother Teresa's 'neglect of residents, indifference to
suffering, massaging of figures, manipulation of the media and
conscious handling of millions of dollars of stolen cash' (page [iv]
of Introduction) --- are all there in the book that few Indians would
have dared to write.

In retrospect, it seems grossly self-demeaning that our country
should have awarded Mother Teresa not only the Bharat Ratna (in 1980)
but also a state funeral --- gun carriage, cortege and all, including
the substantial financial cost. That funeral of September 1997 was
attended by the nation's prime minister I K Gujral, by Bengal's
veteran Communist chief minister Jyoti Basu as well as by Sonia
Gandhi, the Congress' prime ministerial dream.

That same cocktail of political ideology had previously caused
President K R Narayanan to sit so long on the Vajpayee government's
recommendation of a Bharat Ratna for Savarkar that it was finally
forced to wither away. It's the same ideology that recently boycotted
the ceremony to install Veer Savarkar's portrait in Parliament and
even appealed to the nation's President to refrain from unveiling the
portrait.

It was perverse enough that this bunch of democratically elected
leaders should have shown total irreverence to the norms of
parliamentary democracy by daring to obstruct a decision of a
Parliamentary committee that included representatives of that
cocktail.

What is worse is that in opposing Savarkar's posthumous entry into
Parliament, this bunch of politicking creatures overlooked the
totality of the revolutionary and inspiring incandescence of freedom
that was lit by him in the early 20th century when the country's
British masters were crushing our aspirations and milking our
resources.

The life of Savarkar (1883-1966) was so uniquely variegated that it
is almost unbelievable that one individual could possess such an
intellect, such talent, such intensity as to be a firebrand freedom
fighter from childhood, a potential barrister, a writer of history,
of poetry and Sanskrit prayers, a social reformer, and a distinctive
political ideologue with a prophetic vision on the fate of Kashmir,
the formation of Pakistan along with its subsequent hostility, the
mass Muslim infiltration from East Bengal into Assam and China's
hoodwinking Nehru on his Panchsheel.

He suffered six months of solitary confinement, seven days standing
handcuffed, ten days of cross bar fetters and other tortures in the
cellular jail on the infamous Andaman islands of old where he was
sent in 1911 to serve a total of 50-year life imprisonment for his
alleged involvement in two cases: the murder of the English district
magistrate of Nashik and efforts in Bombay to 'overthrow the legally
formed government of the country.' He was in the Andaman prison till
1921, from where he was shifted first to Alipore jail and then, in
January 1924, released from prison but confined in his movements to
Ratnagiri district (in present Maharashtra) with stringent
conditions. It was in May 1937, when Jamnadas Mehta of the Tilak
Democratic Swaraj Party agreed to support the new Cooper ministry in
Bombay on the express condition of Savarkar's unconditional release,
that Savarkar was finally rid of colonial shackles. And he soon
plunged into politics, becoming the president of the Hindu Mahasabha,
even as those engaged in the freedom movement sought his views and
advice. Included in that lot was Subhas Chandra Bose whom he inspired
to make India free through military action.

No wonder there are at least two known biographies on the man: one by
Dr Bhagwan Singh Rana in Hindi and the other by Dhananjay Keer,
hailing from the 'untouchable' caste, who worked with Savarkar to
help build a temple in Ratnagiri, and who was awarded the Padma
Bhushan in 1971 by the ruling Congress government. In addition, there
is a Marathi book devoted to the social reformation which Savarkar
effected during his years in Ratnagiri.

But the Congress and Communists of 2003 are not moved by all that
Savarkar did or suffered in trying to win freedom for his beloved
country, by how Savarkar kindled the minds and hearts of millions,
including Bose and Bhagat Singh. They choose, instead, to complain
that Savarkar submitted amnesty petitions to his colonial masters for
his early release from the Andaman prison and made promises to them
of constitutional conduct instead of willing to suffer pain and all,
death included, as the price to be paid for upholding his cause. This
bunch of politicking creatures also believe Savarkar was a part of
the conspiracy which led to Nathuram Godse assassinating Mahatma
Gandhi but was let off by the court on a mere technicality. And,
finally, this bunch brands Savarkar as a Hindu fanatic, who must have
no niche whatsoever in this oh-so secular country of ours. Therefore,
they proclaim, Savarkar has no place on the walls of our august
Parliament in New Delhi.

What is concealed in the criticism of Savarkar's pleas for release is
the remark that McPherson, Britain's home secretary, put on one such
petition. As cited by Shyam Khosla in Rajasthan Patrika of February
26, 2003, that note said, 'It will be dangerous for the British
Empire to release Savarkar. His pleas are a ruse to get out the jail.
Once out he will organise an underground movement against the
British. I therefore reject the petition on the ground that it will
be a danger to public safety.' Need more be said? And if prison life
had, as alleged, transformed him into a pro-British imperialist, why
did Bose, Nehru and M N Roy welcome him to full freedom in 1937? Why
did S M Joshi and Achyut Patwardhan want him to join their political
party? Why did his Hindu Mahasabha vehemently oppose the Cripps
Mission proposals of 1942 and the Cabinet Mission's plan of 1946?

Regarding Savarkar's connection with Godse, the Special Court
appointed for the trial did not accept the evidence of Digamber Badge
who had turned approver and stated that Savarkar had blessed the
assassins in their mission. In Godse's reply to the charge sheet
against him -- reproduced fully in May it Please You Honour (Surya
Bharti Prakashan, New Delhi, 1987) -- he had categorically denied the
prosecution's stand that he was guided in his action by Savarkar and
that, but for Savarkar's complicity, he could not have acted the way
he did. What's more, Godse's reply stated 'I take the strongest
exception to this untrue and unjust charge and I further regard it as
an insult to my intelligence and judgement.' (Ibid page 45). Indeed,
Godse's reply indicated his disenchantment with Savarkar's belief
that free India having got its own government, all parties should
conduct their propaganda on constitutional lines rather through
anarchical tactics and undemocratic conduct. (Ibid page 56).

In any case, the question remains: Why didn't the prosecution under
Nehru's Congress government appeal against Savarkar's acquittal? The
answer is in the silence.

There's finally that visceral accusation of Savarkar's Hindutva and
his alleged two-nation demand.

The riposte to that is the excerpt below from Savarkar's presiding
address to the Hindu Mahasabha's Ahmedabad session of 1937 cited at
page 117 of The Tragic Story of Partition (Jagaran Prakashana,
Bangalore, 1984) by (RSS leader) H V Seshadri.

'Let the Indian State be purely Indian. Let it not recognise any
invidious distinction whatsoever as regards the franchise, public
services, offices, taxation on the grounds of religion and race. Let
no cognisance be taken whatsoever of a man being Hindu or Mohammedan,
Christian or Jew. Let all citizens of that Indian state be treated
according to their worth irrespective of their religion or racial
percentage in the general population.'

Even 66 years after Savarkar spoke the above words, have you got a
better enunciation of what secularism should mean for the Indian
nation? Silence is the answer.

In that silence lies the Indian tragedy of prejudiced and pernicious
eyes that see a jewel in a pseudo-saint and a thorn in a true patriot.
------------------------jkjkklkl------------------------------------
A brief note on REDDY community in AP Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3064 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
RE: A brief note on REDDY community in AP

FYI:

> http://netinfo.hypermart.net/reddis.htm

> In Andhra Pradesh, the Reddis are considered
> traditional village headmen. The duties of headmen
> included the collection of tax, guarding the village
> and basically representing the village in dealing
> with outsiders or even the government.

How old is the jamindaari system, or jamin-s?

During Raamaayana times c. 5000 BCE, one automatically
loose 'jaati status' if his family had not followed
'kula dharma or jaati dharma' for 7 generations. If we
were to follow this simple rule, I wont see any
'reddy', or 'kamma'.


By the time of MBh(mahaabhaarata c.3100 BCE), Bharata
varsha became urbanised. All these 'ho-ho' varna-s and
jaati-s got distorted so baadly by that time. Now
these 'secular morons' dont mention these truths.




> There are various sects/clans among the reddis. The
> ones I could get some details about are the Panta
> reddis, including the Velanadu , Paakanadu and
> Motati Reddis ( these are old geographical areas)
> i.e. the Krishna-Guntur , Nellore and Chittoor
> Reddis and upland area. In Telangana there are the
> the Keti Reddis, There are other subdivisions but I
> am still collecting information.

This classification is rendered in various historical
stories, as told by Bikshakonti reddy-s. The another
way to delineate is via gothra-shaaka way. Most of the
gothra-s named after grains. One can see this among
North Indian tribes.

> According to manu, the four varna grouping (loosely
> called caste) brahman-kshatriya-vaisya-sudra are all
> aryan.

varNa is different from jaati. Our 'english educated
brethern' read some junk in 'secular studies abt
India' and pontificate those fallacies as 'secular
truths'.

Manu smriti clealy states that arya as Noble, anaarya
as Ignoble. Arya is prakriti of ayya--vikriti recall
telugu/samskrita grammer.

The present version MS compiled/commented by a sage
called bhrigu, who lived on the banks of then
saraswati river. Of course, 'the congress seculars,
mullahs, commies, english educated hindu slaves' dates
it to chaalukya times(it is yesteryear for me).

MS predates Raamaayana. Whatever appears in MS should
be validated by shruti.


> ALL 100% arya according to manu. (the rest of you
> fallen aryans dont figure ;-)
>
> Roots of the Reddis:

> The earliest reference we have to anyone resembling
> the Reddis are the Rathis and the Maha rathis before
> 200 BC. These kings ruled over small principalities
> in
> the Deccan plateau area of Maharashtra, Karnataka
> and
> Andhra before the Satavahanas and mauryas.

Let us forget the 'word jugglery' of Indology or
'secular christology' such as raathi--reddy. I would
say that ka-cha-ta-tha-pa became ga-ja-da-dha-bha.
These are true in 'Primitive Indology linguistics'.
The secular minions, who preparing for Indian Civil
Services exams and took 'Telugu paper' as optional
pontificate many Indology fancy junk as truths, such
as Telugu is dravidian lingo.

Maurya-s c. 1500 BCE. Now christology historians and
Indian secular junkies place this magadha dynasty c.
150 BCE. What a shame!

Shaatavaahana-s are descendants of Ujjaini
Vikramaadhitya, aka vikramaarka in south India. There
is 1800 years gap b/w shaatavaahana-s and maurya-s.

> They have
> left coins in northern Andhra Pradesh, also in
> Kurnool
> district, and near Pune etc. The coins are found in
> the levels between the megalithic and satavahana
> levels in excavations. The term Rathi might refer to
> "one riding a chariot" (Ratha=horse drawn chariot in
> prakrit and old sanskrit). A grander Rathi king
> might
> be called Maha rathi.

I will say that Red-cross sprang from
'raadha-krishna', if I were to follow this primitve
Indology linguistics.


I am yet to see coherent history of Reddy-s.


Rgds,
VR
----------------------------------kjkjk-----
India's Seat on UN Security Council Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3039 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: India's Seat on UN Security Council


"By the way, it turns out that the UN once offered India a permanent
seat in the Security Council, and the omniscient and magnanimous Nehru
turned that offer down saying, "Oh no, India need have a seat only
when China has a seat in the Security Council." Now China is returning
the favour, saying, "Oh no, India need have a seat only when Pakistan
has a seat." Seems fair, doesn't it? How come the 'secular'
'progressives' never mention this as part of their Hindi-Chini spiel?"


Where is our secular primitive 'reddy_sas2000'?
Why dont he mention these 'secular truths'?


Regards, VR.





--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Arun Reddy Mothe
wrote:
>
> I am not sure how much our signature helps, but, ( I feel) there is
no loss if we sign it unless we are too busy to spend 5 minutes.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Arun
>
> INDIA'S SEAT ON THE UN SECURITY COUNCIL AS A PERMANENT MEMBER
>
> If you care about US-India relations, then please take 5 minutes to
read all the
> way to the bottom and follow the instructions below for petitioning
and passing
> this email on to your friends and family on the following:
>
> US India Political Action Committee (USINPAC www.usinpac.com) urges
you to
> support US Representative Frank Pallone's call for a permanent seat
in the
> United Nations Security Council for India. US legislators and media
are
> realizing the legitimacy, and strength, of India's claim to a
permanent seat on
> the UN Security Council, as evidenced from following:
-----------------------jgggg---------------------
On Resident Non Indians (RNI-s) and NRI-s Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3038 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
A perfect description of 'secular' Indians:-)

Regards,
VR


A provocative article by Prof. Diwan.



India Ascendant

http://www.sulekha.com/column.asp?cid=298065

An excerpt........

These highly alienated RNI fit very well Bankimchandra
Chattopadhyay's description of a 'Bengali Babu'. Bengali Babu has
typical characteristics of the colonized. His deity is the
Englishman, preceptor the Brahmo preacher, scriptures the newspapers,
and pilgrimage the National Theatre. He declares himself a Christian
to missionaries, a Brahmo to Keshabchandra, a Hindu to his father and
an atheist to the Brahman beggar. He drinks water at home, alcohol at
his friend's, receives abuse from the prostitute and kicks from his
boss. He hates oil when he bathes, his own fingers when he eats, and
his mother tongue when he speaks. [xii]

The RNI end up denying Indian heritage, rewrite Indian history, speak
a language that is not their own, and copy customs and manners that
they do not comprehend.[xiii] This behavior has earned them, until
recently, prosperity and political power. They believe that they can
maintain it by such conduct. Thus they try to talk the "queen's
language" when it has been given up in queen's country, mouth Marxian
dogma little realizing its oxy-moronic nature, pick up American slang
without understanding it, celebrate drinking when the elite in the
West are giving it up, their children get into drugs which looks cool
from a distance but leaves not only bad taste but devastated lives.
------------------jklklklklkl------------------------------------
Fwd: A Factual Response to the Hate Attack on the IDRF Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3022 of 36214 < Prev | Next >




__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/
Thu Feb 27, 2003 7:50 pm

Show Message Option
"Venkateswara A. Reddy"
venkateshwara_reddy@...
Send Email

Dear Venkateswara Reddy,

A group of independent scholars and professionals under the name of Friends of
India (FOI) today released a report titled, "A Factual Response to the Hate
Attack on the India Development and Relief Fund (IDRF)". This report clearly
establishes the impeccable credentials of IDRF as charity of choice for Indian
Americans and simultaneously exposes the forces behind the attack on IDRF.

This report is available for viewing at

- http://www.letindiadevelop.org/thereport
- http://www.idrf.org/foireport
- http://www.geocities.com/charcha_2000/essays/foi_report/index.html

We urge you to read the report and do the following:

1. Write to the corporations that have suspended corporate matching to IDRF and
urge them to restore it.
A. CISCO: Peter Tavernise, Human Resources Manager, ptaverni@...
B. ORACLE: Rosalie Gann, Director Corporate Giving, ROSALIE.GANN@...

2. Write LETTERS to the media. (Here are some of the email addresses:
editorial@..., news@..., editor@...,
editor@..., editor@..., news@...,
letters@..., editor@..., editorial@...,
info@..., editor@..., newseditors@...,
wsj.ltrs@..., letters.editor@..., feedback@...,
editor@..., etc.)


If you have any questions/suggestions, please email us at
letindiadevelop@....


Best Regards,
LetIndiaDevelop team
http://www.letindiadevelop.org


Here is the press statement issued by "Friends of India" team.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------\
---

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Friends of India (a group of individuals concerned about the attack on IDRF)
releases
"A Factual Response to the Hate Attack on the India Development and Relief Fund
(IDRF)"

Over the past several months, there has been a vicious and well-organized attack
upon the India Development and Relief Fund. Outraged by this attack, a team of
independent people came together in early December to develop a thorough
rebuttal to the hate campaign. We describe ourselves simply as "Friends of
India."

Our report is factual. We present the true nature of IDRF. We also uncover the
ideological leanings of the forces behind the campaign against IDRF. We hope
that people will read our report and inform others about the unfortunate
partisan slander by these anti-IDRF forces. We also hope that the support for
IDRF strengthens.

We find that the report titled "The Foreign Exchange of Hate" (FEH), by Sabrang
Communications and the Forum of Indian Leftists presents no evidence that IDRF
has done anything other than what it advertises. IDRF funds socio-economic
development projects, and relief and rehabilitation work. These are specific
projects with the scope and funding of each approved by the Government of India,
and only after IDRF thoroughly evaluates each proposal. There is no evidence
presented in the FEH report or elsewhere that the funding has been unaccounted
for or misspent.

The FEH report, accompanied by an orchestrated media campaign and a petition,
was a blatant political attack on a low-profile organization with a history of
helping those in desperate need. We, the authors of this rebuttal, decided that
we could not remain mute spectators to this mugging. This report is the result
of our commitment to truth and justice and our collective social conscience.
--------------------jjjj------------------------------------
Fwd: CNN Janu faced? Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3010 of 36214 < Prev | Next >

Please compare CNN's Indian and US editions of the Feb 24th 2003 news,
concerning Noah Jones winning the Grammy:

CNN India: http://www.sulekha.com/redirectnh.asp?cid=297083


CNN USA:
http://edition.cnn.com/2003/SHOWBIZ/Music/02/23/grammys/index.html


Note how Norah Jones is highlighted as Ravi Shankar's daughter in
CNN's
India edition, because that would please CNN's Indian audience. Yet,
on the
same day, the very same news item as reported on CNN's US edition is
ENTIRELY silent about her Ravi Shankar links. Is this odd?

It would be one thing if they were consistent, whether they mentioned
this
link or not. But why is there the need to pretend India friendliness
to the
Indians, and not do the same before American audiences?

Now suppose that it had been news about abused women. Would their US
edition have gone out of the way to identify it as a "Hindu" or
"Indian"
problem? Sure.

Likewise, RISA scholars wear saris, bindis, say namaste, speak Hindi,
and
even sing bhajans - before Indian audiences. That helps fund-raising
efforts
at places such as Emory University. But the question is what do they
say
behind our backs?

Most Indians fail to go into these matters, and easily get fooled by
such
displays from "India lovers." Many scholars have a standard list of
positive
things to prove their credentials to gullible Indians.

And then there are Indian American leaders, who know what is going on,
but
are too invested to blow the whistle, and go about as sepoys defending
such
scholars(for example Dr. Lalita Pandit) are "India lovers," on
ridiculous grounds and without being
able to
explain the other Janus face.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- End forwarded message ---
-------------------l;l;l;----------------------------------
A new element called women.... Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3009 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: A new element called women....


Why dont *we* share these jokes to our sister/mother(s)?
----------------klklklkl-----------------------------------
Fwd: An attempt to define secularism Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2983 of 36214 < Prev | Next >

An attempt to define Secularism

The article covers -

http://www.esamskriti.com/html/new_inside.asp?cat_name=why&cid=814&sid=145

1.. Definition of the word Secularism – by Oxford
modern dictionary, former Indian President Dr S
Radhakrishnan amongst others.
2.. Components of Secularism - as enunciated
by legal luminaries Dr Durga Das Basu and Shri P M
Bakshi in their books.

3.. Supreme Court Judgment in Ayodhya Acquisition
case 1993 - excerpts from the judgment with comments.


4.. International Benchmarking - compared components
of secularism with England, Germany and Turkey.
5.. Analysis.

A must read for all p-secs. How to ensure that all
p-secs read this?
--------------------hfghfgh-------------------------
Need I belong to only one religion Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2981 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Appended is an intersting article for those who
intersted esp Secular bigots and Abhrahamic DMZ.

The best thing is to explore on "origins of religion"
in Christology fringe. This gives new insights into
"Understanding the secular fringe"

Best Regards,
VR

_______________________________________
Need I belong to only one religion by Sankrant Sanu at
Sulekha

Religion and secularism are both hot topics of
discussion in India today. With rare exceptions,
commentators on all sides of the debate in India,
suffer from a general malady – that of using
Western[i] terms, categories and worldviews to
understand an Eastern society. We explore how adopting
Western worldviews and nomenclature has distorted the
Indian reality, to the extent that we have ceased to
understand ourselves.

The confusion starts from basic concepts such as the
difference between religion and dharma. We look at the
pluralistic nature of Indian dharmic traditions and
how they have both changed and stayed consistent
through the centuries. Understanding these constructs,
and ourselves, will allow a better framework for
approaching the situation in India today.

Is religion dharma?

Prof. Arvind Sharma is a professor of Hinduism and
Comparative Religion at McGill University in Montreal.
In a landmark essay[ii] he points out that the word
religion as used in the standard form carries three
connotations (1) That a religion is conclusive, that
is to say it is the one and only true religion; (2)
That a religion is exclusionary, that is to say, those
who don't follow it are excluded from salvation and
(3) That a religion is separative, that is to say, in
order to belong to it one must not belong to another.
In each of these three ways the notion of dharma,
which is the original Indian concept, is very
different from the notion of religion.

In the essay, Prof. Sharma, points out that these
three notions of religion are not a universal idea and
by and large do not express the reality of what are
called Eastern religions. For instance, the conclusive
and separative notion of religion implies that one can
only be a member of one religion or another. In both
Eastern and many indigenous societies, this does not
hold true. For instance the 1985 figures for religious
affiliation in Japan were 95% professing Shintoism and
76% professing Buddhism – clearly a considerable
number (over 70%) chose to suggest that they
subscribed to multiple “religions.” Similar statements
of non-exclusiveness can be made about Confucianism
and Taoism in China, again not religions in the
Western understanding of the word.

These three notions of religion – conclusive,
exclusionary and separative, give Abrahamic religions
a hard-edged identity. In Abrahamic religions there
has been a strong emphasis on the separation of
“believer” and “non-believer” and a religious
imperative to move as many people from the latter
category to the former. Truth has been conclusively
and unquestionably revealed and captured in a book,
and those that follow it are the only ones that are on
the right path. Quite literally, this means that you
are “with us or against us” – that the believers are
right and represent the good who are “with God”; and
all the others are misguided and are part of the
darkness and deprived of any direct access to what is
the ultimate good. The pagan, the heretic, the kafir,
the unconverted represent the darkness against which
the true believers are enjoined to wage war, either
literally or figuratively. In the Roman Catholic
Church this is enshrined in the doctrine of Extra
Ecclesiam Nulla Salus (“There is no salvation outside
the church”)[iii], and in Islam in the clear
distinction between mumin and kafir, and between
dar-ul-Islam and dar-ul-harb. So in the Abrahamic
world, the identity of a religion and religious group
is in fundamental opposition to those that are not
part of that group. This means that per the religious
doctrine of Abrahamic religions, there is an inherent
conflict with any other people who have not converted
to their particular conception of God. Any true
believer then must do his part to affect this
conversion, not doing so is only betraying his faith.

By contrast, the worldview of the dharmic traditions
is that while scriptures can be very helpful, Truth
cannot be found by scripture alone[iv] but by a path
of experiential realization and Self-discovery – and
in that sense religion is not conclusive. It is also
not separative and exclusive in the sense of dividing
the world into believers and non-believers. The
dharmic worldview is that there are many tribes
throughout the world, and many teachers and teachings.
Each tribe has good and bad people in a continuum;
people that have a greater degree of access to truth
and “goodness” are worthy of respect; and others less
so. Since there is a continuum of “goodness” among
individuals of each tribe, the need for converting
other tribes to a particular conception of God as a
religious imperative is not really there. A teacher
can share his or her understanding of the truth; and
means and ways for others to access this; but there is
no underlying belief that only one such way exists.
These ideas find clear expression as far back as the
Rig Veda, with its famous quotation:


"Ekam sad; vipra bahudha vadanti" (while Truth is One,
the wise describe it in different ways) I.164.46 of
the Rig Veda
So dharma itself does not create a religious identity.
One's worldly self-identity in the dharmic model
derives from one's local community, profession or
ancestry, jati or kul, but that identity is not a
religious identity, fundamentally opposed to the
existence of the identity of the “other” as a
manifestation of falsehood.
While, in my personal experience in a practice of both
a form of esoteric Christianity and Sufism, there are
dharmic truths found in higher interpretations of both
Christianity and Islam, mainstream understanding of
both these systems have a strong focus on the
uniqueness of religious identity, in a manner quite
different from dharmic ways, which do not establish
identity in the religious sense of uniqueness and
virtue in contrast with the “other”. In the discussion
below we continue to refer to religion in the
mainstream sense and dharma as the universal
conception of what is right and true, understood by
different cultures and cultural concepts in different
ways or panths.

It is also worth examining this related term – panth.
Even the idea of panth (as in “Sikh panth”) does not
equate to religion. Panth does have a sense of
identity, as in the followers of a particular teaching
or teacher, but is again quite different than the
strongly exclusive identity of Abrahamic religions.
The idea of identity in panth (or way) is an
inherently non-exclusive conception of itself as a
“way” among many and hence without the injunction to
regard those outside that particular way to be
inherently on the side of darkness and ignorance, and
thus needing to be converted to the “right side”. The
Buddhist terminology of sangha (community of the
followers of the Buddha) is quite similar to the
notion of pantha as well.

Harmony between panths: the principle of dharmic
pluralism

The recognition that multiple legitimate paths exist,
by itself, precludes the kind of religious conflicts
that have distinguished Abrahmic religions. In the
dharmic approach, conquest, conversion or continued
conflicts are not the only options in an encounter
with a new tribe or civilization. A dialogue of
understanding is also a possibility. Thus we find in
the dharmic history of India a multiplicity of
dialogues within and between different individuals and
panths.

While the panths followed different enlightened
teachers and had different favored expressions (or
“Ishta-devas”) to relate with Reality (including
agnostic and atheistic schools) these doctrinal
disputes were more often dialogues in a process of
deepening the understanding of Truth, than in the
establishment of political hegemony. To assure that
these doctrinal differences stayed within the limits
of civil discourse, the Indian sages enunciated a
vital corollary to the principle of One Truth most
clearly:

“Sarva Dharma Sambhava, Sarva Panth Samadar” (Each
one's dharma is of equal value, all paths are worthy
of equal respect)

This in a nutshell is the principle of Indian
pluralism, articulated by the Indian sages centuries
before the West had understood the need for
secularism.

Note however, that the principle of “Sarva Pantha
Samadar” can be understood both as a statement of
truth, as well as a treaty. And as a treaty it works
only if all the participants in the fray accept it as
valid. As we shall see later, this provides us at
least one of the clues to religious conflict in India.


When dharma meets religion: the creation of Hindu
identity

When we begin to understand what dharma is and that it
has been a very different concept than religion, it
follows then that the concept of a “Hindu” religious
identity, if understood in the image of Abrahamic
religions is not really an original dharmic concept.
Neither is “Hinduism” a religion in the same sense
that Christianity is a religion.

To understand how most of the Indian dharmic community
came to be called “Hinduism” it is worth recalling the
origin of the word Hindu. It is well recognized among
scholars that Hindu came from the Sanskrit word
“Sindhu.” In Old Persian the 'S' became an 'H' and the
word become Hindu, a geographical designation of the
place beyond the Indus, i.e. India. On a recent trip
to Mexico, it was interesting to find that Indian food
is called “La comida Hindu.” Even now when it is
considered archaic (and extremely politically
incorrect) to call all Indians “Hindu”, etymologically
the words are the same – Hindustan is a synonym for
India. In some ways this sense was retained all the
way up to the 20th century when Indian Muslim poet
Iqbal wrote a national song that inspired many in the
freedom movement:


“Sare jahan se acchha, Hindustan hamara…”
So how did “Hindu” become a religious designation? It
was in the encounter with the adherents of two major
proselytizing Abrahamic religions – first Islam and
then Christianity that the idea of “Hinduism”
successively took shape in the form of an Abrahamic
religion. The question of religious identity was first
posed to the dharmic community in its encounter with
Islam, which had a very clear separation of believer
and infidel, of us and them, in a way that was alien
to the dharmic way, and was not a party to the dharmic
truth treaty of “Sarva Pantha Samadar.” “Hindu”, which
started of as a geographical term, was turned into a
religious identity mainly by negation, first in
contrast to the Islamic invaders[v]; and later on by
the British.
At the same time, dharmic society's natural response
to the Abrahamic threat was to harmonize it in
accordance with the eternal dharmic principles – and
to attempt to appeal to the higher interpretation, to
“Indianize” them, or to broaden their worldview and
have them accept the treaty of “Sarva Pantha Samadar.”


It is no surprise then, that during the Islamic rule
emerged great teachers such as Guru Nanak, who again
reinforced dharmic truth and downplayed the idea of
religious identity.

“Neither Hindu nor Muslim, all our bodies breathe a
life from the same God, called Ram or Allah.”
Similarly, experiments by Akbar and Dara Shikoh in
Din-I-ilahi were attempts to bring Islamic religious
ideas into harmony with the dharmic traditions of
India.

The many Indian bhakti poets like Kabir, Rahim and
Raskhan played their part in this effort. The reign of
Aurangzeb was a setback to this to integration –
religious identity was the determining factor in
applying the “jaziya” tax, so the population needed to
again be clearly categorized as “Muslim” and
“non-Muslim” aka Hindu. Nonetheless, there is evidence
to suggest that in the absence of disuniting political
forces, Indian Muslims had been on a path towards
being integrated within the dharmic panoply of Indian
traditions.

Enter the British: Fomenting religious conflict

Even while the influence of dharmic traditions had
partially been in the process of healing from the
shock of the Islamic invasions, along came the
British. It was a time when India was in a politically
vulnerable and fragmented situation with the decaying
Mughal Empire. The British with their policies opened
up some wounds that had not yet completely healed. In
consolidating their rule over India, British employed
three techniques. The first was the policy of divide
and rule, the second was the destruction and
replacement a of well-developed native education
system with a system for educating the elite in their
own language and worldview; and the third was to
denigrate native traditions and establish their
“natural” superiority in the minds of the elite, to
make the country easier to rule.[vi]

Much of the British divide and rule between different
communities is well documented in historical accounts.
There is a fascinating book “Richer by Asia” written
by Edmund Taylor, an American intelligence agent
posted in India during World War II, which gives us
another insight into understanding religious strife in
India. Edmund Taylor was in the division for
Psychological Warfare. Being both a professional in
the field and detached from contemporary British and
Indian politics gave him a unique vantage point to
study British policies in India. He writes:


“… when the Sikhs rose up against British domination,
a young British officer, Lieutant Edwardes, won fame
'by availing himself of the hostility which he knew to
exist between different races of the Panjab' to raise
against the Sikhs a levy of Moslem Pathans … the
British during the Great Mutiny of 1857 'afterwards
armed the Sikhs against the Mussulmans and Hindus of
Delhi. …
“The British assault on the Indian psyche has
sometimes escaped the notice of Western historians…
not because it was committed in secret but because it
was committed too openly… The flames of civil strife …
were constantly being renewed by the incendiary
results of British state policy. …

“If the United States Army had the policy of balancing
every white regiment by a Negro regiment, if it
systematically employed Negro troops to quell riots or
uprising among the white population and white troops
to quell Negro disturbances, then race-relations in
America would be a good deal worse then they are. A
more effective program of psychological warfare
against the American people could hardly be devised.
Yet, for fifty years after the Great Mutiny, according
to Garratt and Thompson, this policy of racial
'counterpoise and division' governed the employment of
the Indian Army.[vii]


The creating and denigration of Hindu identity
With the native schooling system and economy
destroyed, there was a huge demand for English
education among the Indians for government jobs. In
their education system, the British trained an
intermediary ruling class from among the natives. This
ruling class learnt first to understand religion in
Western terms, including the use of the term “Hindoo”
as a religious designation to refer to a large part of
the dharmic community, and then later learnt the
antidote of secularism for this peculiar, but
apparently universal, disease of religion.

Education was largely in the hand of the missionary
schools, even though it did not always involve
explicit preaching for conversion. However, one goal
of both the missionary and the secular administrator
was to denigrate native religions and practices – the
former to convert to the one true religion and the
latter to instill in the natives the aura of Anglican
superiority.

So firstly there was the creation of a “Hindoo” label
for much of the indigenous dharmic community and then
the systematic destruction of the “brand-value” of the
label within the elite by holding “Hindoo-ism” to be
responsible for a large number of social ills. Along
with the use of the Manusmriti in the pattern of the
scripture-based interpretations of Christian law, the
idea of a homogenous religious identity with
conclusive doctrines in the image of Christianity was
perpetuated. This is not to suggest that everything
that the British did was deliberate – this would imply
more agency to them than they possessed, but that they
could not transcend their experiences and ideas of
what religion is, or the self-conceived superiority
informed by their religious beliefs. They operated
from the worldview of fixed laws handed down by
revelation and interpreted by centralized church
authorities and believed that was how religions must
operate. They were largely unable to comprehend the
dharmic system -- that shared an acceptance of diverse
worldviews with considerable flexibility of
interpretation among different social, regional and
linguistic groups.

Over time, the denigration of the “Hindu” brand
created a natural force for communities like the Sikhs
to gradually cease to self-identify as Hindus (the
notion of the Khalsa Pantha, was similarly understood
as an Abrahmic religion with a separative identity),
and a number of people from within the dharmic
communities to develop a distaste for “Hinduism” amid
considerable confusion, that continues today, about
what that term really means.

Hindu identity in Contemporary India

The forces in play during the Indian freedom struggle,
and the events leading up to and including the
partition, had a significant role in continuing to
shape religious discourse and conflict in India. That
period, ending with the partition of India, is a
testament to the cumulative failure of the political
leadership in bridging the religious divide in a
meaningful and effective way.

The politics of independent India have played a part
in the continued formation of the Hindu identity along
religious lines, largely by exclusion. After having
accepted Western categories of religion and having
just emerged from the terrible religious conflict of
the partition, the political elite of India was highly
sensitized to assuring a religiously harmonious India.
So they swore by the secularism that they had
dutifully learnt was the antidote for the disease of
religious conflict and “minority rights” the antidote
for “majoritarianism.”

Unfortunately, the constitution and, more
significantly, the politics of independent India,
served to make the situation worse rather then better.
The perception that the constitution of India has
afforded to the minorities privileges apparently
denied to the “Hindu” majority, for example the right
to run educational institutions without interference
from the state, steadily led to both a pull away from
the Hindu label, as well as a backlash against that
pull. A famous example in this regard was the case by
the Ramakrishna Mission that claimed they were not
Hindu to avoid persecution from the communist
government in West Bengal (they lost).[viii]

Finally, the entire spectrum of political forces in
contemporary India, those that exploited minority
fears to create religious “vote banks”, counting on a
caste-based division of the Hindu populace to win, and
those that opposed it by forging a pan-Hindu identity,
as well as much of the discourse in the
intelligentsia, have contributed to the rise of the
Hindu religious identity in the form of Hindutva.

The rise of Hindutva is an expression of the majority
dharmic community in pro-actively claiming a religious
identity, instead of constantly being defined by
negation. Unfortunately, this is a double-edged sword
– while it may serve to protect, if it takes the form
of an exclusivist religion, instead of a pan-Indian
shared ethos, that would itself be a defeat for the
dharmic traditions.

Thus, for our dharmic plurality, there is an anguish
in this encounter with separative, exclusivist
religions in either direction – the option of not
having a religious identity has not really been
available in the encounter, since the “other” is
insistent that they do have a clearly defined
religious identity; yet the option of taking on an
identity in the image of “religion” is equally a cause
of anguish, since it is a lie to who we are. This
anguish is the very source of the debate and
ambivalence in the Indian society towards the idea of
“Hindu identity” that is present in the rise of
“Hindutva.”

Is it necessary to belong to only one religion?

Despite all the assaults on the Indian psyche and a
pressure for conformance into the Abrahmic modes of
religious identity, deep down we remain a deeply
pluralistic people. This is surprisingly true on both
sides of the Hindutva debate. Secularism has succeeded
in India precisely because of our pluralistic dharmic
roots. But even now, when we have mentally accepted
Abrahamic religious categories and its antidote of
secularism, these categories continue to disturb our
sensibilities. We understand what they tell us what
religion is, but deep down we cannot accept it as our
way.

Let us take some examples from contemporary India that
show this ambivalence.

Kushwant Singh is widely hailed as a liberal secular
journalist. In a recent article, he writes:


“There was a time when filling up forms against the
column 'religion', I would triumphantly put down
'none'. It would be more accurate if I wrote 'khichdi'
i.e. a mixture of a few. I am by no means the only one
who is confounded by the demand that we specify the
one and only one religion we belong to. Many people
take what they believe is good from different
religions and make a tasteful pot-pourrie.
“This was brought home to me by my neighbour, Reeta
Varma, who is an Assamese Goswami Brahmin. When her
husband died, there were Hindu, Buddhist and Christian
prayers at his cremation. Last month she rang me up on
Id-ul-Fitr and asked me cheerfully, “Sir, can you
guess how I celebrated Id?” I replied: “You may have
gone to a dargah, or simply eaten sayviyaan
(vermicelli pudding) as most Muslims do on Id. “No,”
she replied triumphantly, “I went to Gurdwara Sis Ganj
in Chandni Chowk. You think I am going nuts?”

“I found it most bizarre: a Hindu celebrating a Muslim
festival in a Sikh temple. But why not? Then I got a
letter from Kulshreshtha of Faridabad. It started with
a question: “Is it a must to belong to one religion
only?” It went on to say that a neighbour who is Hindu
likes to fast during Ramzan and offer namaaz; and
another neighbour, a Muslim is a regular visitor to
the Ayyappa temple. In the first census of Gujarat in
1911, the census superintendent recorded 35,000
'Hindu-Mohammadans'. He was soundly ticked off by his
superior.[ix]

Now this kind of flexibility in religious practice and
designation is a particularly dharmic formulation,
which has largely been alien to Abrahamic society
outside of India. However, it is not unrepresentative
of the conflict that religious identity has created
within the Indian mind. Unfortunately, as we are
accepting Western categories, we are going backwards
from a dynamic dharmic pluralism in a direction where
a Hindu-Mohammadan designation will indeed seem absurd
to us and our “Abrahamization” will be complete.
Nonetheless there is hope for the dharmic worldview
from all quarters. This is what Suma Verghese, an
Indian Christian, writes in her essay “Indian
Christian: In Search of the Christ Within” about her
discovery of dharma:


"Discovering this wisdom in our own backyard awoke in
me a passion for India and the Indian way of life. I
was Indian whether or not a Christian."
Adds Raimondu Pannicker, author of A Dwelling Place
for Wisdom: "If we as Christians... could succeed in
undergoing the Advaitic experience... then Christians,
at least of Indian origin, would be automatically
enabled to live an advaitic-Christian faith, which
makes possible both a fully Hindu and a fully
Christian life—without the pain of a split
personality.[x]

Similarly many Indian Muslims are not only culturally
Indian, but have also connected in a deep way with
their dharmic roots. Of the numerous examples here, I
will choose a recent one, an article by Saeeq Naqvi in
the Indian Express, where he waxes nostalgic about the
dharmic pluralism of India:

“…In fact in this long poem, 'Lamp in a Temple',
Ghalib describes Varanasi as the 'Kaaba of Hindustan',
somewhat in the same vein as Iqbal's description of
Lord Rama as the 'Imam of Hindustan'. …
Krishn ka hun pujari/ Ali ka banda hoon/ Yagana
shaan-e-khuda/ Dekh kar raha na Gaya (I am a pujari of
Krishna and a devotee of Ali/ I cannot help myself
when I see the wonders of God).” …

Visit Ustad Alauddin Khan's house in Maihar and you
will be witness to one of the great spectacles of
composite culture. The great master said his namaaz
five times a day but his music he derived from
Saraswati, who adorns all the walls of his house.[xi]

The sad part is that we are nostalgic for pluralism --
wasn't secularism, the antidote for the disease of
religion, supposed to make us “more plural”? Why do we
then find ourselves less so after 50 years of taking
secularism pills? Or are we suffering from a
misdiagnosis instead?
In contemporary intellectual analysis, the RSS is
considered the main threat to India's pluralism. Did
this organization single-handedly change India's
pluralistic traditions? Do we need to imagine it so
powerful that it can change our very nature? We
checked the RSS website and found the following
statement as the first point in their mission
statement:

“a) The truth is one but can have plural
manifestations. This plurality need not be in conflict
with one another; it can be cooperative and
complementary. To understand, appreciate and realize
the unity in a tremendous vortex of diversities,
should be the humanity's goal of life.[xii]

Isn't this backwards from what we've been taught? In
the Western worldview and terms of discourse, it is
naturally assumed that the “Hindu Right” (another
Western category) must be doctrinally opposed to
pluralism, just as the religious right is in the West,
or the orthodoxy is in Islamic countries. But if
dharma is, by its nature, pluralistic, can any
organization that claims to be Hindu be anything other
than pluralistic?

On the other hand, if RSS is truly pluralistic as it
claims here, we need to hold it to its stated
objectives. We cannot condone violent inhumane actions
by anyone irrespective of religious or organizational
affiliation. Such action can neither uphold dharma nor
be considered dharmic. But the larger question is,
what is the conflict about? Is the conflict between
Hindutva and secularism, as we are currently led to
believe, or is the real conflict between pluralism and
the ideologies of exclusivism?

The seeds for dialogue

The surprising finding here is that the positions of
the “liberal” Khushwant Singh, the “Christian” Suma
Verghese, the “Muslim” Saeed Naqvi and the “Hindu
right-wing” RSS, at least on paper, don't seem all
that far apart – in fact they all point towards the
ethos of Indian pluralism. The hard-liners on all
sides will be shocked that these different
constituencies are even quoted together, but our hopes
for peace don't lie with the hardliners. They lie in
having truly pluralistic Indians discarding
pre-conceived labels and beginning dialogues that shed
light on current issues. Dialogue, rather than
sticking to pre-conceived ideologies and positions
about who we can or cannot talk to will lead to real
change. Not simply by the enforcement of the law, not
by writing articles about the “fascist saffron” threat
to Indian secularism in the international media, not
by labeling people as “pseudo-secular”, none of these
will help us to move towards a genuine peace. If we
desire peace, we need to learn how to talk to each
other directly and to understand ourselves. This has
been the Indian Way that we must reclaim if we are to
live together in harmony.

What is required then is for truly pluralistic Indians
to gather together and change the parameters of this
debate. The battle is not between Hindutva and
secularism. The battle is between all those who
support the dharma of a pluralistic and diverse
society vs. all those extremists who would convert us
to an exclusivist creed. Pluralism is our natural
state and pluralistic Indians are found across the
political and religious spectrum. And these
pluralistic Indians must speak up against the actions
of extremists and exclusivists of all hue whether they
be found among Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs,
Communists or any other affinity. If the pluralists
don't speak out, the extremists will control the
discourse, as has been happening so far.

Finally in pursuing this dialogue we must recognize
that we have been looking at each other through the
tinted glasses of a Western world-view which has
distorted what we see and know about ourselves. We
have been fighting with shadows without even
understanding the source of our conflict.
Understanding ourselves as truly as possible on our
own terms then becomes a crucial first step towards
sustaining this dialogue for building a harmonious
society.

References:

[i] We use the term Western here as a generalization.
One could more specifically use “Judeo-Christian” or
Western European or Occidental, denoting the general
civilizational origin of these concepts.

[ii]
http://www.infinityfoundation.com/indic_colloq/papers/paper_sharma2.pdf


[iii] Some examples of the numerous Roman Catholic
sites that explain how this works:
http://www.romancatholicism.org/
http://www.catholicism.org/


In Protestant denominations the quote from the bible
“I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one
comes to the Father, but through Me” (John 14:6) is
most typically used to justify exclusiveness. In the
book “Christ, the Yogi” Prof. Ravi Ravindra explains
why this is an erroneous understanding of Christ's
teaching.

[iv] The Bhagvad Gita itself clearly denies that Truth
can be limited to the religion of a book:
When thy mind leaves behind its dark forest of
delusion,
Thou shalt go beyond the scriptures of times past and
still to come.
When thy mind, that may be wavering in the
contradictions of many scriptures,
Shall rest unshaken in divine contemplation,
Then the goal of Yoga is thine.
Juan Mascaro, The Bhagavad Gita 2:52-53

[v] It is interesting that even after the Islamic
conquest it was more common to refer to people by
their jati, and geographical origin, as in “Turks”,
“Pathans”, “Arabs”, Rajputs, and so on, till a gradual
process of religious differentiation as a major
distinction took place.

[vi] The book, “Masks of Conquest” by Gauri
Vishwanathan is a fascinating study of the reason for
the introduction of English-medium schooling and
English literature by the British in India.

[vii] Richer by Asia, by Edmund Taylor. ©1947 and
1964. Time Life Books.

[viii] This provides a particular interesting contrast
to the case of the Ahmediyas in Pakistan that are
campaigning to be counted as Muslim. See, for
instance:
http://www.himalmag.com/98Dec/more.htm

[ix]
http://www.hindustantimes.com/news/181_135922,00300003.htm


[x]
http://www.lifepositive.com/Spirit/world-religions/christianity/belief.asp


[xi]
http://iecolumnists.expressindia.com/full_column.php?content_id=14236


[xii] http://www.rss.org
-----------------------------------kll;l;-------------------
Hitler and Islam & Seculars (was Re: Gene Bomb) Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2941 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Hey secular *primitive*,

I am answering for sake of other members in this forum
for credibility of a dialogue.

I will address your post in two parts viz a) Nazi,
hitler b)Who is casteist, my reader

Let me address the first one aka connoting
Hindu-sympathatic orgs with Nazi-s and Hitler.

A word of Caution: Hinduism is 18th century colonial
import, and the word 'hindu' itself originated in far
west of Saraswati river--I did not see any word like
'hindu' in vEdA-s. And secular *scumbags* and Indology
*shitholes* find this notion in 18th century germanic
translations. The word 'hindu' originated from
'sindhu'. Again we encounter the so-called sindhis
from Spain-to-USA-to-Brazil-to-Korea-to-Africa. For
example, let me examine a sindhi last name
*lahoraani*. You find this last name among moslems of
Pakistan and Hindu Sindhis. Does this ring a Bell?

There is another sindhi last name *kaviyaani*. I
noticed this last name among some persians/Iraanians.
The only difference is Islam and Indic traditions
with same last name.

Yet it is fashion for so-called congress-commies to
appease muslims at the cost of Indic traditions. Let
me address in that front re:Hitler and Islam.

As another member pointed thus:

"Secular media discovers a Nazi connection to
everything Sangh says or does. The series was my
humble attempt counter it by saying: 'Hey guys, wait a
minute! You don't come clean too, parivar's crimes are
imaginary, your are real'. Put in other words, I was
just trying tell them that If any one of them is
without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at
Sangh Parivar which is without sin."


HITLER and ISLAM

*Hitler raised an SS division from Bosnian MUSLIMS to
fight the Serbs and Serb nationalists. Bosnian SS had
their own share of genocide against the Serbs.

*After 1945, a number of Nazi scientists, technocrats
and other Nazis found asylum in the Egypt because
Egypt had vowed to destroy Isreal and Jews. They
worked for Egyptian military research.That was in the
50s.

*Balkan penisula(the present croatia, Yugoslavia,
Serbia etc) proved to be a human and geographical
barrier Third reich and Islam.

*Enemy's enemy is a friend, this is the oldest logic
in the world. Hitler was very pro Muslim because of
the ongoing tussle between Jews and Muslims in
Palestine.

*Palestinians, for whom oceans of tears are shed in
India, reciprocated Hitler's freindly gestures
wholeheartedly. They made no *secret* of their
admiration for Hitler.

*Grand Mufty of Jeruselam dreamed of a Grand coalition
of Nazis and Muslims to conquer Delhi(Robert Payne,
Life and death of Adolf Hitler).

*The Grand Mufti visited Auschwitz and blessed the
activity For example,

http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/recruited.html


------------------------------------------------------
The Arab/Muslim Nazi Connection Bosnian Moslems
recruited the Nazi SS by Yasser Arafat's 'Uncle'1



A picture taken in 1943 of the Grand Mufti of
Jerusalem Haj Amin el-Husseini reviewing
Bosnian-Muslim troops - a unit of the "Hanjar (Saber)
Division" of the Waffen SS which he personally
recruited for Hitler.

Arab leaders and media outlets have long been addicted
to comparing Israel to the Nazi regime, while at the
same time demeaning the extent of the Holocaust. This
obsession with defaming and antagonizing the Jewish
people and state was on full display in
recent months and reached a crescendo ?or rather
nadir ?the day before Pope John Paul II visited the
Temple Mount during his Holy Land pilgrimage. The
Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Sheikh Ekrima Sabri,
just hours before hosting the Pope, gave a series of
press interviews, first telling the AP: "The figure
of 6 million Jews killed during the Holocaust is
exaggerated and is used by the Israelis to gain
international support?It's not my
problem. Muslims didn't do anything on this issue.
It's the doing of Hitler who hated
the Jews," asserted the acid-tongued Mufti ?a figure
appointed by Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. "Six
million? It was a lot less," Sabri repeated for an
Italian newspaper. "It's not my fault if
Hitler hated the Jews. Anyway, they hate them just
about everywhere." The Mufti finished the day with
Reuters,charging, "We denounce all massacres, but I
don't see why a certain massacre should be used for
political gain and blackmail."
However, as a matter of record, there was a
well-documented, thriving relationship between the
Arab/Muslim world and Nazi Germany, with
perhaps the most significant figure linking Hitler to
the Middle East being none other Sabri's very own
predecessor, Grand Mufti of Jerusalem Haj
Amin el-Husseini. Here is a brief review of that dark,
overlooked chapter in history.

The Furer's Mufti: After World War I, the Great
Powers of Europe jockeyed for influence in the Middle
East's oil fields and trade routes, with France and
Britain holding mandates throughout most of
the region. In the 1930s, the fascist regimes that
arose in Italy and Germany sought greater stakes in
the area, and began courting Arab leaders to revolt
against their British and French custodians. Among
their many willing accomplices was Jerusalem Mufti Haj
Amin el-Husseini, who fled Palestine after agitating
against the British during the Arab Revolt of 1936-39.
He found refuge in Iraq ?another
of Her Majesty's mandates ?where he again topped the
British most wanted list after helping pull the
strings behind the Iraqi coup of 1941. The revolt in
Baghdad was orchestrated by Hitler as part of a
strategy to squeeze the region between the pincers of
Rommel's troops in North Africa, German forces in the
Caucuses and pro-Nazi forces in Iraq. However, in June
1941 British troops put down the rebellion and the
Mufti escaped via Tehran to Italy and eventually
to Berlin.

Once in Berlin, the Mufti received an enthusiastic
reception by the "Islamische Zentralinstitut" and the
whole Islamic community of Germany, which welcomed him
as the "Fuhrer of the Arabic world." In
an introductory speech, he called the Jews the "most
fierce enemies of the Muslims" and an "ever corruptive
element" in the world.
Husseini soon became an honored guest of the Nazi
leadership and met on several occasions with Hitler.
He personally lobbied the Fuhrer against the plan to
let Jews leave Hungary, fearing they would
immigrate to Palestine. He also strongly intervened
when Adolf Eichman tried to cut a deal with the
British government to exchange German POWs for 5000
Jewish children who also could have fled to
Palestine. The Mufti's protests with the SS were
successful, as the children were sent to death camps
in Poland instead.

One German officer noted in his journals that the
Mufti would liked to have seen the Jews "preferably
all killed." On a visit to Auschwitz, he reportedly
admonished the guards running the gas chambers to work
more diligently. Throughout the war, he appeared
regularly on German radio broadcasts to the Middle
East, preaching his pro-Nazi, anti-Semitic message to
the Arab masses back home.

To show gratitude towards his hosts, in 1943 the Mufti
travelled several times to Bosnia, where on orders of
the SS he recruited the notorious "Hanjar troopers," a
special Bosnian Waffen SS company
which slaugh-tered 90% of Bosnia's Jews and burned
countless Serbian churches and villages. These Bosnian
Muslim recruits rapidly found
favor with SS chief Heinrich Himmler, who established
a special Mullah Military school in Dresden.

The only condition the Mufti set for his help was that
after Hitler won the war, the entire Jewish population
in Palestine should be liquidated. After the war,
Husseini fled to Switzerland and from
there escaped via France to Cairo, were he was warmly
received. The Mufti used funds received earlier from
the Hilter regime to finance the Nazi-inspired Arab
Liberation Army that terrorized Jews in Palestine.

*The Grand Mufti visited Auschwitz and blessed the
activity


http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_grand_mufti.php

At the Nuremberg Trials, Eichmann's deputy Dieter
Wisliceny (subsequently executed as a war criminal)
testified:

The Mufti was one of the initiators of the systematic
extermination of European Jewry and had been a
collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in
the execution of this plan.
... He was one of Eichmann's best friends and had
constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination
measures. I heard him
say, accompanied by Eichmann, he had visited incognito
the gas chamber of Auschwitz.

But the main point is that while the "secular" lefist
Indian press constantly harps on the alleged fascist
tendencies of RSS and Golwalker and they conveniently
push under the rug actions taken by Palestinians to
actively colloborate with Nazis for genocide over a
period of any years.

Palestinian cause is sacred with the Indian
secularists even though they actively colloborated
with Nazis.

To continue on next thread on "Who is castiest, dear
reader?"

Let me interrogate this secular *primitive* and an
online psuedo junkie *reddy_sas2000*

1) What is your caste?

2) What are your dad and mom castes?

3) What are your grand parents' caste? Were they part
of nizaam razakaars

4) What are your siblings' caste?

5) Tell me your relatives caste?

6) Tell me your partner's caste, if you are married?

7) On what basis(akin to basis of a vector space), you
gonna marry/love/like/hate


Please get back to me with answers. So that I can
shatter your scum head based on *your answers* only.

Regarding the respect, as you bemoaned in other post:
Dont expect me to respect you. I might have given
respect, if you argued on fact-based.


Suggestio falsi, suppressio veri is the name of the
game, the secular scum bags engaged for last 60 years.
Just as the p-secs refuse to deal with the facts, and
assume that the best way of politicising even
scientific inquiries, is to attack the alleged motives
of whoever presents facts.

Regarding myself: Some members in this forum ca. 3/02
asked about myself. It is time for me reveal who am I
to clarify my position wrt many contexts.

Name: Venkateswara Reddy Annem
Age: 24 +
Location: , I am familiar with
Kurnool-Cuddapah politics.

Voting Record: I voted twice so far. It was local
panchaayat election and re-voting due to bombings. No
sign of BJP in my village. And people tend to change
parties very often.

Political affliations: There was no BJP/RSS/Parivaar
in my area. I am not member of any political
organizations. I dont ape whatever these organizations
say. Of course I defend them on the Hindu-sympathatic
grounds, when I encounter secular scum bags. In
hindu-centric lists, I banish psuedo-braahmanic
fringe, as I am shattering seculars in Indic forums.

-I have *no* interest in becoming 'ho-ho' politics

-I dont defend Reddy factionists of Kurnool, Cuddapah,
and Anantapur irrespective of their party affliations.
I dont trivialize these factionist traditions based on
'yo-yo' pAlegALLu.

For example some hindu sympathizers defend themselves
re: manusmriti that MS was a madeup book to cover
their ass. This is kinda trivialization. My argument
goes in the opposite direction that MS was distorted
due to vested interests. And I also showed that Shruti
was final when ethical quandaries arise(MS also
asserts this)
















--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "reddy_sas2000
" wrote:
>
> Do not try to justify the damage done by varNa
system. "this
> illiterate secular ....." is much more better than
the literate Neo
> Nazi, fascist , ........
>
>
------------------hdfghdfgdg---------------
Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2914 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Gene Bomb


--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "reddy_sas2000
" wrote:

Just for sake of this illiterate secular scum bag:-)

I already sent the following version to private members. Btw, I
started new egroup http://groups.yahoo.com/group/reddyuniverse

People who intersted in logical discussions, and history are very
welcome to join this unmoderated, restricted membership forum. This
new forum is not related to jobs/datings/matrimonials. Dont worry! I
welcome seculars to that forum.


On 4- varNas or so-called caste system:

brAhmaNo asya mukhamAseet | bAhoo rAjanya: kr`taH |
ooru tadasya yad vaishya | padbhyAm shoodro ajAyata ||

This samhita mantra has been asserted by Indologists(and their
secular scum bag(s), as we see in this egroup_
as being the justification for ancient India's varNa
system and present India's "caste system". Nothing can
be farther from truth, since this mantra does not
state any of it, yet this was made the basis through
erroneous or vested interpretations. Before I give my
opinion, let us note that all interpreters since
Bhr`gu of Manusmr`ti through the Max Muller tribe take
this mantra to mean that Brahmins sprang
up (i.e., were born) from PuruSa's (Cosmic Being's)
face, kSatriya-s (kings) from His shoulders, vaishya-s
from his thighs and shUdra-s from his feet.

But anyone with a grain of elimentary Samkr`tam can't
see this meaning in this mantra. Instead, we have:

(His) face is seated by brAhmaNa;
rAja is made by His shoulders;
similarly vaishya (is made) from His thighs;
shUdra is born from His feet.

Note that three different kriyApada-s are used by the
shruti: ajAyata, kr`ta, and AsIt. Their meanings are
not at all similar, not even close by any fantastic
imagination or word jugglary.

Note that there is no shruti (this or any other in the
whole of Veda-s) that states that brAhmaNa is BORN
from His face, kSatriya is BORN from His shoulders,
and vaishya is BORN from His thighs. Yet, this is
exactly how the above mantra was and is interpreted by
most. Therein was and is the seed
of all social problems, I feel.

There are other shruti statements that suggest
"janmanA yAyetE jantuH, karmaNA jAyatE dvijaH". This
is recited during upanayana samskAra. Also in the same
puruSa sUktam it is stated that the manifest universe
sprang from His feet/quarter (pAdO-sya vishvA BhUtAni,
tripAdasyAmr`tam
divi). Thus, "padBhyAm shUdrO ajAyata" only re-states
this: all that are born (i.e., this whole manifest
universe and all beings) are providers of service to
Him (i.e., shUdra-s). The vaishya-s and rAja-s, who
are also shUdra-s by birth, are made (by their own
self-effort, hence kr`taH). The brAhmaNa-s, who reach
to sit on His face, who are also nonetheless shUdra-s
when born, become so by their own self-effort, hence
AsIt. Be it among humans or among stones,
this is the process of growth from a creature to
becoming one with the puruSa. Anything and everything
in this creation falls within this process of growth.
There is no exception.

Even today, boys in so-called Brahmin families if die
before their upanayana, their antyESTi is done as is
done for shUdra varNa. Similar is the case for
unmarried girls, since marriage for girls is
considered as dIkSA for brahmatva. The
dvija-hood is considered reached upon taking to the
spiritual path of searching for Brahman within (and
without), although, technically, he/she is only
beginning the journey into dvija-hood, and hopefully
he/she will reach there in this life itself. This is
the spirit and intent of the samskAra-s. Sure,
distortions have come in. But it is self-suicidal,
stupid, and foolish to throw out the whole process
instead of these distortions.

Apart from this,
Br.U.1.4.15 which makes it a personal responsibility
for every one including a chandala to know brahman
before death "If, however anybody departs from this
world without realizing his own world (the Self), It,
being unknown, does not protect him - as the vedas not
studied, or any other work not undertaken (do not)".

I clarified my position re: varNa-s.
-----------------------ghjgjgj---------------------------
Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2881 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Gene Bomb

Idiot! Your dad is SECULAR fundamentalist!


You really dont know me. There are two kinds of colonized thugs

1. Secular scum bags like you, who chew the shit of their Colonial
masters.

2. There is another extremum exist in present Hindus, who argue that
Manu Smriti Sanctioned Varnas by Birth

Esp in 2nd case, I debunked such type of colonized scumbags..
Mind that I dont ape whatever one hindu schoalr says, nor do I
reject Indologists arguments. After all, these first type of scum
bags helped to reform the second type of colonized! Now there is
thread a going in a egroup re: shruti vs. smriti & varnas. I
debunked both types of colonials..None mince a word. Thats why this
kinda hindu fringe dont like me either. But you dont find 'real
pandita-s' in this 2nd fringe of lunatics.

Colonized = denying one's own experience(Thanks to SN Balagangadhara)

Mind it..We dont need your emotional crack-potty responses(aka
Secular substance abuse). Pls come outta self-masturbatory mode.


Again re: abrahamics(muslims and xians):- Fortunately I have had
many meaningful conversations with these groups. They are far better
than your-type-scum-bags who recite the shit of 18th century
primitive colonials.

Coming to my life: One Indo-Iraqi muslim female(her dad is from
Iraq, her mom is from India-Hyderabad), repeat once again MUSLIM,
proposed me to marry her. Dont construe that I had some secular(sex
etc..again read 18th century colonial writings, which say that the
so-called progressive Indians succumbed to WEST because of this
sexual freedom) relation with her.

I am open to debate on logical and epistemological basis. Get outta
your fucking emotions and argue rationally. If I cant argue certain
things, I will bring scholars to argue(even Top IDRF officials for
sake of your secular dads)


Bring your secular dads Rev. Biju Mathew and Rev. Vijay Prasad..We
can have fun in this egroup, repeat again, in this egroup!



--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "reddy_sas2000
" wrote:
> Hi Hindu Fundamentalists,
>
> Why do not you people work on a Gene Bomb , which can kill all
> muslims by origin, so that all Hindus can live happily in India???
>
>
>
> --- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "venkateshwara_reddy
> " wrote:
> > FYI: linking the following:-
> >
> >
> > In the chapter, "Missionary Methods," of the book "The Hindu",
by
> Rev.
> > George Carstairs, he writes on Christianity's influence on
Gandhi
> >
> > "...just as the Western philosophic and political ideas, without
> > replacing those of the East, have profoundly modified them, so
> > Christianity has profoundly modified Hindu religious thought.
> > Christianity is abundantly common, but it is usually criticised
as
> not
> > being Christian enough. Mr. Gandhi once remarked in conversation
> with
> > an English friend, that all he was trying to do was to apply
> Christian
> > principles to political life. The latter replied that European
> nations
> > had been trying that for centuries, but found it none too
easy. 'Is
> it
> > possible,' said Mr. Gandhi, with a twinkle in his eye, 'that I
am a
> > better Christian than the Europeans?' Christ and His teaching
have
> won
> > at least the respect and esteem of most educated Hindus, even
where
> > Christianity as they see it exemplified in European life has
not.
> That
> > this is so is very largely due to the work done in the Christian
> > colleges. With India in the throes of political adolescence,
that
> work
> > is more urgent than ever..."
> >
> > Now lets see what this love of Jesus Christ and his teachings
led
> too.
> >
> > http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/apr/16arvind.htm
> >
> > But Gandhi was sold on his brand of communal harmony and on his
> > Mussalmans, whatever they said about him in the Islamic context.
> Thus,
> > in his post-prayer speech at Birla Mandir, New Delhi, on April 6,
> > 1947, Gandhi said, "Hindus should never be angry against the
Muslims
> > even if the latter might make up their minds to undo even their
> > existence." In another post-prayer speech asking the
> > Partition-inflicted Hindus not to seek refuge in India, he
> said, "They
> > should not be afraid of death. After all, the killers will be
none
> > other than our Muslim brothers."
> >
> > I read on Malhotra's site, one of Yvette Rossers articles, where
it
> > talks about how one of Hindu parents great fears when sending
their
> > kids off to get European education was that their kids would
convert
> > to Christianity.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "aumprakashreddy
> > " wrote:
> > > -hi all
> > > lemme quote gandhi from his own word. if u still consider him
as
> > > father of india , i leave it to u.
> > >
> > > 1..Gandhi wrote, "My own experience but confirms the opinion
that
> the
> > > Mussalman as a rule is a bully, and the Hindu as a rule is a
> coward.
> > > Need the Hindus blame the Mussalman for his cowardice?"
> > >
> > > 2.Thus, in his post-prayer speech at Birla Mandir, New Delhi,
on
> > > April 6, 1947, Gandhi said, "Hindus should never be angry
against
> the
> > > Muslims even if the latter might make up their minds to undo
even
> > > their existence." In another post-prayer speech asking the
> Partition-
> > > inflicted Hindus not to seek refuge in India, he said, "They
> should
> > > not be afraid of death. After all, the killers will be none
other
> > > than our Muslim brothers."
> > > iam not a coward, if its u i leave it to it .
> > >
> > > u can find more details in the following link
> > >
> > > http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/apr/16arvind.htm
> > >
> > >
> > > y should hindus get killed and not retaliate only gandhi
know
> > > answer for this question.
------------------gdfgd------------------------
Fw:Magic of John Dobson Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2863 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Friends, you would love to read the marvellous Advaita
Vedanta and Modern Physics by John Dobson. The book is
freely available on the Web:

http://www.trueweb.ee/roland/HTML/tekstid/advaita/

Subhash
-----------------------ghfhfgh-------------------------
Girl Shortage in India Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2862 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
It is very easy for $ hindus/Indians to find brides.
How about rural India. Are we going to expect
'Kanyaashulkam'[for more, pls. read Gurajaada
Apparao's Kanyaashulkam] traditions. Yes, says the
below.

Rgds,
VR



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/2723513.stm

Tuesday, 4 February, 2003, 10:51 GMT
India's lost girls

Jill McGivering
BBC South Asia correspondent in Punjab


A marriage crisis is hitting thousands of men in parts
of rural India which are running out of potential
brides. The traditional preference for boys instead of
girls has led to widespread abuse of modern pre-natal
scans.

The technology should protect the health of mother and
baby.

But, wrongly used, it is a death sentence for unwanted
girls.

The practice of determining the sex of a foetus and
aborting girls is illegal, but widespread.

The worst affected states, such as Haryana and Punjab,
now have some of the most skewed sex ratios in the
world - and the proportion of baby girls is still
falling.

Buying brides

A whole generation of young men is failing to find
brides.

Many are now resorting to "buying" girls from poor
communities outside the region to bear their children.


Government officials raid clinics to make sure doctors
are not abusing modern technology by tipping off
parents they were carrying girls.

In many clinics, the illegal and systematic abortion
of girls is common practice.

In Punjab, special prayers of thanks greet the birth
of a boy. Prejudice runs deep. Girls are born into
silence.

"People say, you have two girl children, you have done
some sins in your past life," said office manager
Surinder Saini.

"With a boy child, people say your generation will
propagate, your older age will be safer. This is the
concept of our society."

Combating prejudice

Mr Saini is a fierce campaigner against female
foeticide. He and his wife have two daughters.

But even they aborted their third child after tests
showed it was a girl.

All those years of prejudice against girls are finally
coming back to haunt this society.

There is such an acute gender imbalance here that it
is causing real social problems.

Young men are coming of marriageable age, only to
discover there is no-one left for them to marry.

The young girls who would have been their brides never
had the chance to be born.

The villages are full of frustrated bachelors. In
Haryana, a quarter of the female population has simply
disappeared.

Many now see buying wives from outside as their only
option.

Foreign imports

"I couldn't find a local girl," said Chandram, who
purchased a wife last year from Bangladesh. "So I had
to go outside to get married.
But it wasn't cheap."

His bride looked about 15. Now she is thousands of
miles from home.

They have just had their first child - a baby girl.
She looked sickly, struggling to survive.

The ghosts of missing babies are closing in.

If newly-weds continue with this brutal practice of
eliminating girls, this whole region is on course for
catastrophe.
-----------------------jjj----------------------------
Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2847 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: reason to kill gandhi..u have it

FYI: linking the following:-


In the chapter, "Missionary Methods," of the book "The Hindu", by Rev.
George Carstairs, he writes on Christianity's influence on Gandhi

"...just as the Western philosophic and political ideas, without
replacing those of the East, have profoundly modified them, so
Christianity has profoundly modified Hindu religious thought.
Christianity is abundantly common, but it is usually criticised as not
being Christian enough. Mr. Gandhi once remarked in conversation with
an English friend, that all he was trying to do was to apply Christian
principles to political life. The latter replied that European nations
had been trying that for centuries, but found it none too easy. 'Is it
possible,' said Mr. Gandhi, with a twinkle in his eye, 'that I am a
better Christian than the Europeans?' Christ and His teaching have won
at least the respect and esteem of most educated Hindus, even where
Christianity as they see it exemplified in European life has not. That
this is so is very largely due to the work done in the Christian
colleges. With India in the throes of political adolescence, that work
is more urgent than ever..."

Now lets see what this love of Jesus Christ and his teachings led too.

http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/apr/16arvind.htm

But Gandhi was sold on his brand of communal harmony and on his
Mussalmans, whatever they said about him in the Islamic context. Thus,
in his post-prayer speech at Birla Mandir, New Delhi, on April 6,
1947, Gandhi said, "Hindus should never be angry against the Muslims
even if the latter might make up their minds to undo even their
existence." In another post-prayer speech asking the
Partition-inflicted Hindus not to seek refuge in India, he said, "They
should not be afraid of death. After all, the killers will be none
other than our Muslim brothers."

I read on Malhotra's site, one of Yvette Rossers articles, where it
talks about how one of Hindu parents great fears when sending their
kids off to get European education was that their kids would convert
to Christianity.



--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "aumprakashreddy
" wrote:
> -hi all
> lemme quote gandhi from his own word. if u still consider him as
> father of india , i leave it to u.
>
> 1..Gandhi wrote, "My own experience but confirms the opinion that the
> Mussalman as a rule is a bully, and the Hindu as a rule is a coward.
> Need the Hindus blame the Mussalman for his cowardice?"
>
> 2.Thus, in his post-prayer speech at Birla Mandir, New Delhi, on
> April 6, 1947, Gandhi said, "Hindus should never be angry against the
> Muslims even if the latter might make up their minds to undo even
> their existence." In another post-prayer speech asking the Partition-
> inflicted Hindus not to seek refuge in India, he said, "They should
> not be afraid of death. After all, the killers will be none other
> than our Muslim brothers."
> iam not a coward, if its u i leave it to it .
>
> u can find more details in the following link
>
> http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/apr/16arvind.htm
>
>
> y should hindus get killed and not retaliate only gandhi know
> answer for this question.
------------------------hjkhkhk--------------------------------------
Fwd: Four major conferences in December, 2003, sponsored by Infini Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2845 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
A new framework is going to be launched by Infinity Foundation, called
WESTOLOGY, which deals with Secular mindset(Secular hindus in Xian DMZ).

For those who are interested in the following Indic conferences, Pls.
read the appended note.

Rgds,
VR


--- In INDOLOGY, "rajivmalhotra2001 "
wrote:
Four Major Conferences in December, 2003, Sponsored by Infinity
Foundation


In 2002, much of our Foundation's organizational energy was
concentrated on the Indic Colloquium in Woodstock, NY. It was a
unique and watershed event, and received excellent reviews by the
attendees. See:
http://www.infinityfoundation.com/indic_colloq/colloq_home.htm

This year, the plan is different in several ways: First, we plan to
hold our major events in India. Second, rather than one large event
involving many disciplines, it shall be a separate set of
seminars/conferences, each addressing a different specialty. This is
the result of having progress beyond general studies and inquiries
into a stage of implementing specific strategies where we could make
an impact.

Of these four events, #1 is already formalized. This is the Indic
Religions Conference that the International Association of the
History of Religions (IAHR) is having in collaboration with the
Center for the Study of Developing Societies (CSDS), at the India
International Center, Delhi. Dates: December 18 – 21 (revised).
Madhu
Kishwar is convening it, along with Ashis Nandy and Robert Thurman.
See:
http://www.infinityfoundation.com/mandala/s_pr/s_pr_IAHR_frameset.htm

The other three events are at various stages of planning, as they are
more `informal' than #1, and require less lead time. Ideas,
participants and volunteers are welcome.


#2 is a seminar on The History of Indian Science and Technology, to
be held on December 10 – 13, 2003. This will be the third in the
series on this topic organized by Infinity in recent months. We had
the first one in Binsar last summer, and the second one in Delhi in
January, 2003. The goal is as follows: A multi-volume series on
indigenous Indian Science and Technology has been planned, and the
first six volumes have been commissioned already. Two more volumes
are expected to be commissioned this year, and a total of around 20
volumes are planned over several years. Joseph Needham's 40+
volumes
on China are the role-model we are following. These meetings are
primarily for the team of scholars who are involved in these volumes,
either as authors or as reviewers/editors. See:
http://www.infinityfoundation.com/mandala/tks_projects_frameset.htm


#3 is a meeting to kick-off the development of college level textbook
(s) on Indian Psychology. Just a few years ago, when this term was
first mentioned by us, scholars wondered what it meant, and, when
explained that it was about Indian theories and schools of
psychology, the reactions ranged from doubt to condescending
approval. But after five successful conferences sponsored by us in
India, the term has considerable currency amongst academic
psychologists in India. Now there is demand for a college course on
this in India. The project team has been almost finalized, and the
event in December would consist of discussing each scholar's role
and
summary/outline of work planned. The tentative dates are: December 7-
8, 2003. Location in India to be finalized.


#4 is our newest initiative. WESTOLOGY is the name we are coining to
describe a new discipline that would study the West, in the same
manner as Indology has been the study of India. While post-colonial
studies would claim to be already doing this, there is one major
difference: post-colonial scholars tend to be deficient in an
understanding of Indic categories, because typically they are from
India's elite liberal arts colleges where Sanskrit Literature and
Indian Classics were banished as a conspiracy of Evil Brahmins.
Therefore, post-colonialists tend to use Eurocentric categories –
religion, nation-state, caste, ethics, and secularism, to name a few

when Indic equivalents could be richer and more relevant in many
instances. Therefore, their deconstruction of the West is in terms of
Western categories, and they inadvertently perpetuate the very
Eurocentrism they seek to challenge. Consequently, the gold standard
of legitimacy for such scholarship lies in the West, implemented
through awards, degrees, travel and other grants, etc. Many such
scholars are heavily invested in Western academe. Indian NGOs are
often dependent upon Western funding. Many Christian, Western
Feminism and human rights movements that are similarly grounded in
Westernism. Our hope is to examine the West from a fresh perspective
that is less burdened by these limitations. We are in the early
stages of planning a meeting on December 15-16, 2003, to discuss
papers by interested scholars, and to set up an association or a
center to systematically launch this area of study. Location in India
is to be finalized. Interested scholars are invited to send their
proposals to: Rajiv Malhotra, Infinity Foundation, 53 White Oak
Drive, Princeton, NJ 08540 USA. Or by email to:
Rajiv.Malhotra@A...



Rajiv Malhotra
FOUNDATION: http://www.infinityfoundation.com
MANDALA: http://www.infinityfoundation.com/mandala/
--- End forwarded message ---
-------------------gdfgdfg--------------------------
'Secularism', Colonial Hegemony and Hindu 'Fanaticism' Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2837 of 36214 < Prev | Next >

An eye opener for Indian seculars and the Hindus as well.
I request the people, who followed my discussion re: seculars etc to
read and digest the following

Regards,
VR


Secularism', Colonial Hegemony and Hindu 'Fanaticism' By Bhagat, A.
at Sulekha.com

In the late '80s and early '90s, Japan was crushing the United
States in business and trade. We saw a plethora of 'voluntary'
quotas being applied to articles as disparate as automobiles, steel
and electronics in trade between the two countries.
*Today, with competitive advantage guaranteeing the complete
annihilation of the Western world's textile industry, there are
similar 'voluntary' restrictions on textile exports from developing
countries such as India, Thailand, Mauritius etc. Steel dumping
charges by the United States are being used as coercive tools to
limit the supply of competitive product from countries as diverse as
Brazil, South Korea, India and Russia.

*When ISKON – a complete anomaly within the fold of Hinduism, in
that it actively proselytized and converted – started to
successfully propagate and grow rapidly in the '70s, it quickly got
labeled as a 'cult'. In the West, it was vilified, discredited and
attacked at virtually all levels; the State, legal, popular media
(print, TV, movies) and at the level of ordinary individual
discourse.

*Even today, many Western European countries have 'state' churches.
What this means is that the state officially supports that
particular church, legally, monetarily and politically. (A telling
factoid; when a Belgian or a German begins to work and earn, there
is an automatic tax deduction from his paycheck that is money
collected for the State Church.) Interestingly, these are also the
countries that are quickest to label 'different' religious
organizations as cults, especially if they are a) fundamentally
alien to Christian thoughts and values and b) aggressive
proselytizers. Witness the treatment being meted out to the "Church
of Scientology" in Germany for example.

*In most Islamic countries, where their religion is so fundamental
to their very existence, proselytizing by – and sometimes, even the
practice of – other faiths is banned, and can lead to severe
retribution.

*Whenever there has been a large, relatively sudden – and therefore
socially traumatic – inflow of 'foreigners' into a particular
society, there has, almost invariably, been a strong backlash.
Witness again, the Turks entry into Germany, the 'Pakis' entry into
England, the Irish into Boston, the Italian into the New York area,
or the Indian into New Jersey.

What all these examples illustrate is a very fundamental truth of
human – and therefore societal – nature. If human beings feel that
their way of life is truly being threatened, no matter what the
rules and laws state – they will react strongly to get rid of that
perceived threat.

Now, if one were to use the above observation to explain the
phenomenon of 'Hindu fanaticism' as defined and articulated by the
Indian and Western media, one would get some – but only a partial –
understanding of the issue. Because there is a far more profound
explanation for this phenomenon. To understand the true significance
of the issue, one needs to look at not just 'Hindu fanaticism' but
equally, the vitriolic attacks Hindutvaadis face at the hands of the
media, both the Indian secular as well as the Western.

Why, in a world where proselytizing is banned by virtually every
Islamic country, where Hindus have been virtually 'cleansed' out of
Pakistan, Bangladesh and the Kashmir valley, are Hindutvaadis
singularly such a key target of the world press? Why, in a world
where the Pope – the official head of the largest Christian
denomination of the world – talks about "harvesting Indian souls" is
it that there is such a concerted effort by the popular media
worldwide to demonize aggressive Hindus – and only Hindus –
as 'fundamentalists'?

That the effort by the media to taint the emerging 'vocal'
and 'public' Hindu as a fanatic is a concerted one hits one smack in
the face every time one reads anything on this issue. By the choice
of words (Gujarat 'pogroms')[i]; by the selective focus on victims
(Dalits, Muslims, missionaries, but never a Kashmiri pandit or Hindu
worshipper); by the number and prominence of articles focused
on 'Hindu fanaticism' (front page news) versus 'other fanaticism'
('40 pilgrims gunned down" blurb half way down on page 26 of your
local newpaper).

It is only when we understand that the creators, definers and
propagators of the 'rabid Hindu fanatic' image worldwide – the
secular intelligentsia and media – is but the other face of the same
coin, will we understand the true dimension of the battle being
waged.

For a battle it is. A battle at the most fundamental level of man's
worldview on human rights and religious freedom. In its essence, the
battle is between the relative morality versus immorality associated
with religious conversions. On one side, we have the Abrahamic
juggernaut, draped in a pristine white secular garb, using as its
awesome cudgel the worldwide media; on the other, we have the
dharmic perspective, its 'high profile' defenders consisting of
street fighters filled with more brutishness and temper than
intellect, long term vision and wisdom.

No wonder then, what should have been a true intellectual battle of
two moral – but completely incompatible – worldviews has become a
rout. Leave alone those that have grown up in Abrahamic cultures,
even the average open minded Indian intellectual, though having
grown up in a dharmic culture, sees the battle as between the
secular good versus evil Hindu fanaticism.

A good way to contextualize this battle is to look at the Universal
Declaration of Human Rights[ii] which was first adopted by the U.N
in 1948 and is to this day a standard bearer of what should
constitute genuine humanistic principles. Though the document covers
virtually every facet of individual and societal space – economic,
cultural, religious, physical, intellectual and political – for
purposes of this discussion, we will focus on only a few sentences:

Article 2: Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set
forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as
race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion,
national or social origin, property, birth or other status. …

Article 12: No one shall be subjected to arbitrary interference with
his privacy, family, home or correspondence, nor to attacks upon his
honour and reputation. Everyone has the right to the protection of
the law against such interference or attacks.

Article 18: Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience
and religion; this right includes freedom to change his religion or
belief, and freedom, either alone or in community with others and in
public or private, to manifest his religion or belief in teaching,
practice, worship and observance.

The Christian worldview, with its predilection to proselytize and
convert others into its fold has chosen to focus on only one element
amongst all those present in the three articles listed above; namely
the freedom to change one's religion or belief and made that the
cornerstone of their 'religious freedom index'. In other words,
those cultures and societies that allow active proselytizing and
conversion are considered more 'religiously tolerant' and open
societies.

With their fundamental belief in the absolute uniqueness of Christ
as compared to the rest of us mortals and sinners, and thus the path
to salvation, a believing Christian has no choice but to consider
all other spiritual paths and religions as being confused at best
and minions of the devil at worst. This worldview creates a
proselytizing juggernaut that can be broken down into three
different tiers.


1. The most 'benign' group of Christians would be the 'modern,
enlightened' group. People in this group would probably never even
consider directly proselytizing to a 'non-believer' themselves.
However, by virtue of their numbers and wealth, they are a big
source of funds, and hence the engine that empowers the next two
groups.
2. The second group consists of the 'legitimate' proselytizers.
Using funds received from the first group, these people use standard
business practices in order to increase Christianity's market share.
That is their overriding goal and singular focus. Towards that end,
they carry out fund-raisers, competitor analysis, marketing and
advertising, create incentive schemes, build hierarchical
organizations, look at return on investment etc. In this category,
you can lump all of the mainstream missionaries – Catholic,
Protestant, Evangelical – and churches. From the Pope down to the
local Indian missionary working in a Tripura or a Kerala, they use
words like 'planting' (ministries/churches) and 'harvesting'
(Souls). The more forthright ones are openly religious while some of
the more insidious ones pose as secular humanists. However, their
agenda of bringing more souls into the Christian fold is clear and
focused.[iii]

3. The last group, consisting of Christian fundamentalists see the
whole believer / non-believer schism in far starker terms. Their
language is liberally sprinkled with words such as pagan, devil
worshippers, idolaters etc. Interestingly, if their language were
used in terms of differentiating peoples or races rather than
religion, it would clearly qualify as hate speech, with potential
societal, political as well as legal censure![iv]

Looking at what both group 2 and 3 say, do and preach, and
juxtaposing that against the very humanist principles outlined in
the above three articles from the Charter of Human Rights, it is
clear that they are in violation of both the spirit as well as the
letter of all three articles, when dealing with 'pagans' such as us
Hindus. Yet, they carry the halo of religious enlightenment within
the world's 'secular' media.

To summarize: The western-secular – and therefore dominant –
worldview would have us believe that the most enlightened form of
religious tolerance and freedom a society can create is one where
everyone is freely available for conversion. How this conversion
occurs, what methods are used (assuming it does not entail coercion;
subterfuge and inducements are acceptable) or the consequences to
the culture and society are all of little consequence.

On the positive side, their worldview allows for the least restraint
on free speech, and the theoretical benefits that accrue from
allowing contesting ideas to battle each other in the marketplace of
the individual's mind. However, such an advantage can only be had if
ALL the competing players are interested and willing players in an
arena where aggression and subterfuge is rewarded, and the law of
the jungle which favors the strong is considered moral and just.

However, there is an opposing dharmic worldview, which, in its
essence is far more pluralistic, non-dogmatic and accepting of
different points of view. The spiritual traditions of Buddhism,
Sikhism, Jainism and Hinduism see little good or morality in
uprooting people from their own traditions and culture and
replanting them in to an alien one. For, when all the different
paths lead to the same spiritual goal, what possible purpose can be
served by severing somebody from his own roots?

The essence of this dharmic perspective is probably best captured in
the Bhagavad Gita, 4:24 – 4:32. Here Lord Krishna in essence
explains to Arjuna that though there are many different
methodologies as well as objects of worship (only some of which are
listed) they all lead to the same goal of enlightenment.[v]

As in so many other instances, this dharmic principle of religious
enlightenment is taken to its loftiest heights by none other than
Mahatma Gandhi. "I came to the conclusion long ago ... that all
religions were true and also that all had some error in them, and
that whilst I hold by my own, I should hold others as dear as
Hinduism. So we can only pray, if we are Hindus, not that a
Christian should become a Hindu ... But our innermost prayer should
be that a Hindu should be a better Hindu, a Muslim a better Muslim,
a Christian a better Christian."[vi]

Here then, is the dharmic perspective on what constitutes a
religiously enlightened society. Compare that to the Christian
perspective. Now, lay them both side by side with the Universal
Declaration of Human Rights and decide for yourself which of the two
worldviews occupies the higher moral, spiritual and dharmic plane.

Over the last two hundred years, the U.S. has done an outstanding
job of leading the world in the area of racism and race relations.
It has led the world from an era when espousing theories of races
being at different stages of evolution was considered legitimate and
acceptable[vii] to a point where any kind of denigration of a
particular race invites swift opprobrium and retribution. For this,
humanity in general, but 'minorities' such as ourselves in
particular should be grateful to the Americans. I do believe the
world would have been a far more hostile place if the center of
gravity had remained in Europe, or shifted to Japan for instance.

However, what we see today is a 'religionism' not that different
from the racism of fifty years ago. For obvious reasons, this is not
a battle that we can expect America, steeped in its Judeo-Christian
culture, to fight. This is a battle that India, the cradle as well
as the last remaining significant bastion of dharmic civilization in
the world, needs to fight. It is India's opportunity to do for the
world in religion what America did for races. As a society which has
a dharmic based majority, it needs to work on creating laws and
codes of conduct that are enlightened but disallows the denigration
of other's religions and spiritual traditions. It needs to use the
UN charter as the basis for creating its legal framework. To do this
effectively, it needs to take the moral and intellectual high
ground, which is its rightful place.

If freedom of speech no longer provides protection to racial hate
mongers in the U.S.; if in that bastion of economic freedom that is
America, a private landlord can go to jail for discriminating
against potential tenants based on race, why is it so difficult for
India to create a dharmic based set of laws that ban 'religionism'?
For, if India can get it right, I foresee such an enlightened
perspective on religious freedom spreading rapidly across the Far
East, from Thailand to Japan. After all, these cultures still have
the dharmic DNA embedded in their cultural genes.

There is no reason why, fifty years hence, the current denigration
of other religions by Christians (and Muslims) is not frowned upon
by the world the way denigrating other races is frowned upon today.
The question is, do the torchbearers of dharma in India have the
intellectual prowess and media skills required to succeed? For
humanity's sake, I fervently hope so.

References:

[i]A good example is that of someone like Rajiv Malhotra being
defined as a 'Hindu Taliban' in reaction to his Risa Lila
(http://www.sulekha.com/column.asp?cid=239156) 'attack' on American
academics by both Indians as well as Americans. This is a man whose
only 'weapon' are his pen and his intellect.

[ii]http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

[iii]The number of organizations/individuals that fall into this
group is diverse, vast and consists of a multiplicity that is
sometimes cooperative and at other times competitive with each
other. In order to provide a flavor of what this group consists of,
I am attaching a few web-sites' URLs.

http://www.agniministries.com/ministry.htm (an interesting example
of using Hindu concepts to 'reach across' to the pagans as smoothly
as possible)
http://www.harvestmission.org/
http://www.bethelthehouseofgod.net/africaandindia.html
http://www.isidelhi.org/ (this one does a fine job of projecting
itself as a secular outfit)
http://www.harvest-india.org/Preaching.htm
http://www.geocities.com/mariaandrick/burdenforsouls.htm (the "White
man's burden" updated for the 21st century?)

To understand the business/market-share approach of this group, the
strategy, as espoused at the Consultation of World Evangelization in
their meeting in Thailand in 1980 is still a fundamental road-map,
in use even today, with only minor variations:

"God longs for the whole Hindu people to know Jesus Christ and live
under His Lordship", they wrote. The "Thailand Report on Hindus"
delivered appropriate missionary know-how for the harvest. The Hindu
belief system was introduced with special attention to those of its
elements, which could be used in the conversion process. "Miraculous
healing", for example was recommended as successful
technique. "Demonstrating social concern, for example for scheduled
castes and tribes or other `untouchables' of the Hindu community
(lepers, prostitutes etc.) was another proposed technique.

"The oppressed and the poor have always been receptive for the
Gospel down the centuries in India and elsewhere… The poor have a
natural capacity to put their trust on almost anything. They are not
dogmatic. This has always been the 'entry point' in the structure on
any society, through which we can easily enter."

It was warned, however, to avoid "premature reaping": "If, as
frequently occurs, the first converts are those who are socially
isolated for one reason or another reason from the community,
premature reaping may create serious barriers to the establishment
of the Body of Christ in that area. We must exercise patience as we
sow the seed, create a hunger, and work for the conversion of the
opinion leaders of the community…" -Rationalist International,
Bulletin #83.

[iv]http://www.manassaschurch.org/india_6.htm
"It is a war to free those who have been taken captive by the devil
and his followers. Who are these warriors in the Lord's Army? They
are the Christians who proclaim the freedom found in Jesus Christ.
Among the Lord's many dedicated warriors, two Missionaries to India,
Jerris and Juanita Bullard, are surely worthy of the Lord's
Distinguished Medal of Honor. They continue to attack the strong
holds of Satan in India seeking to free captives." – Excerpt from
the web-site.

"When I said during my presidential bid that I would only bring
Christians and Jews into the government, I hit a firestorm. `What do
you mean?' the media challenged me. `You're not going to bring
atheists into the government? How dare you maintain that those who
believe in the Judeo-Christian values are better qualified to govern
America than Hindus and Muslims?' My simple answer is, `Yes, they
are.'"
-from Pat Robertson's "The New World Order," page 218

"Hinduism and many of the occult activities that come out of the
Orient are inspired by demons and demon worship...There's this
concept that all religions are the same and all are good. That is
not true. The worship of the Devil is not good." 700 Club, 9-11-89:

"They have thousands and thousands of earth stations picking up
satellites. It's a window of opportunity [for Christian TV
programs]. Of all of India's problems, one stands out from the rest.
That problem is idol worship. It is said there are hundreds of
millions of Hindu deities. All this has put a nation in bondage to
spiritual forces that have deceived many for thousands of years."
Pat Robertson: March 23rd, 1995 broadcast of "The 700 Club."

An interesting exercise is to read Martin Luther King's words, as
well as the definition of Racism, and change their context from RACE
to RELIGION and then contextualize the quotes above.

RACISM - prejudice, apartheid, anti-Semitism, sexism, colonialism,
homophobia, ageism, discrimination against differently abled,
stereotypes... "Racism is a philosophy based on a contempt for life.
It is the arrogant assertion that one race is the center of value
and object of devotion, before which other races must kneel in
submission. It is the absurd dogma that one race is responsible for
all the progress of history and alone can assure the progress of the
future. Racism is total estrangement. It separates not only bodies,
but minds and spirits. Inevitably it descends to inflicting
spiritual and physical homicide upon the out-group." *

Source: "Where Do We Go From Here: Chaos or Community?" by Dr.
Martin Luther King, Jr. Boston: Beacon Press, 1967.

[v]Chapter 4, Verse 24.
A person who is fully absorbed in Brahman is sure to attain the
spiritual kingdom because of his full contribution to spiritual
activities, in which the consummation is absolute and that which is
offered is of the same spiritual nature.

Chapter 4, Verse 25.
Some yogis perfectly worship the devas by offering different
sacrifices to them, and some of them offer sacrifices in the fire of
the Supreme Brahman.

Chapter 4, Verse 26.
Some of them sacrifice the hearing process and the senses in the
fire of the controlled mind, and others sacrifice the objects of the
senses, such as sound, in the fire of sacrifice.

Chapter 4, Verse 27.
Those who are interested in self-realization, in terms of mind and
sense control, offer the functions of all the senses, as well as the
vital force [breath], as oblations into the fire of the controlled
mind.

Chapter 4, Verse 28.
There are others who, enlightened by sacrificing their material
possessions in severe austerities, take strict vows and practice the
yoga of eightfold mysticism, and others study the Vedas for the
advancement of transcendental knowledge.

Chapter 4, Verse 29.
And there are even others who are inclined to the process of breath
restraint to remain in trance, and they practice stopping the
movement of the outgoing breath into the incoming, and incoming
breath into the outgoing, and thus at last remain in trance,
stopping all breathing. Some of them, curtailing the eating process,
offer the outgoing breath into itself, as a sacrifice.

Chapter 4, Verse 30.
All these performers who know the meaning of sacrifice become
cleansed of sinful reaction, and, having tasted the nectar of the
remnants of such sacrifice, they go to the supreme eternal
atmosphere.

Chapter 4, Verse 31.
O best of the Kuru dynasty, without sacrifice one can never live
happily on this planet or in this life: what then of the next?

Chapter 4, Verse 32.
All these different types of sacrifice are approved by the Vedas,
and all of them are born of different types of work. Knowing them as
such, you will become liberated.

[vi]Young India: January 19, 1928

[vii]Many eminent academics, politicians and public leaders openly
defined 'Negroes' as being sub-human. The most extreme manifestation
of this racial stratification occurred on the island of Tasmania,
where the entire aboriginal population was decimated. White settlers
would go on weekend hunting trips to kill these 'animals' and the
practice did not stop until the whole population was wiped out.
---------------------------hdfhfh----------------------------------
Ireland's Dirty Laundry Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2838 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Where were these sunken human rights activists and supporters, when
Catholic Church enslaved thousands of young females. In USA prisons,
inmates usually kill those inmates, who were convicted for child
molestations. I knew this thru a white friend, whose relative(was
convicted for child molestation charges) was killed in prison by
fellow inmates.

What happened to the bastard commie govt in Kerala, where Rev. Sam
involved in Child molestation. Probably, our psec friend in this
ReddyOnline group may help these Revs:-)


Regards,
VR
-----------------------

Ireland's Dirty Laundry

Wounds Still Fresh For Thousands of Women Enslaved by the Catholic
Church

C O R K, Ireland, Jan. 26 - A sudden spate of TV exposés, docudramas
and a major motion picture have brought to light one of the most
shocking episodes in the history of the Catholic Church in Ireland -
the existence of the now-notorious "Magdalene laundries," a
sanctified form of slavery.

Operated by the Sisters of the Magdalene Order, the laundries were
virtual slave labor camps for generations of young girls thought to
be unfit to live in Irish society.

Girls who had become pregnant, even from rape, girls who were
illegitimate, or orphaned, or just plain simple-minded, girls who
were too pretty and therefore in "moral danger" all ran the risk of
being locked up and put to work, without pay, in profit-making,
convent laundries, to "wash away their sins."
They were completely cut off from their families, and many lost
touch with them forever.

Stripped of their identities, the girls were given numbers instead
of names. They were forbidden to speak, except to pray. If they
broke any rule or tried to escape, the nuns beat them over the head
with heavy iron keys, put them into solitary confinement or shipped
them off to a mental hospital.
Over a period of 150 years, an estimated 30,000 women were forced
into this brutal penance, carried out in secret, behind high convent
walls.

Towards the end of the 20th century, the laundries began to close,
as the power of the Church in Ireland diminished and as social
attitudes became less puritanical. Incredibly, the last Magdalene
laundry to shut down was in 1996.

`We Were the Living Dead'

Mary Norris, 69, was committed to a convent laundry in Cork for two
years. An articulate, intelligent woman, she was transferred from an
orphanage at age 15 because she was "disobedient." Her number was
30.

On one occasion, she said, the nuns actually ordered the girls to
pray for those held in Soviet prison camps, a bitter irony, as she
considers the convent laundries "an Irish gulag."
Though it was clearly very painful for her, she took us around the
convent - now abandoned - where she had suffered so much.
"In the winter, it was freezing cold, and in the summer, it was like
the desert, it was so hot with the steam," she said. "We were the
living dead. We weren't treated as human beings, as individuals. We
were just part of the workforce. Nothing more, nothing less."

Guilt by Illegitimacy

Sadie Williams, 64, spent a total of four years in two different
convent laundries. She was 14 when she was virtually kidnapped by
two women who had determined that she was "in moral danger."
Williams liked to take a walk in the evenings, after working all day
at a bed and breakfast in Dublin. She said the women considered her
much too attractive to stay out of trouble.

She was only 14 when she ended up in a convent laundry outside town
as "Number 100," and locked into a cell each night. She says she
almost never saw daylight.

"Oh, it was dreadful," she said. "I cried and cried all the time,
and kept asking why, why wasn't I getting out. And I would write
begging letters to my mother. When I finally got out, she was
already dead and buried three years. But I was never told, even
though I was writing, still writing letters to her."
She has since learned that the nuns stopped all her mail. Her mother
wasn't married, so Sadie was considered to be guilty of the sin of
illegitimacy.

No Apology

There have been no direct reparations from the Irish Catholic Church
to the tens of thousands of women it used as slave labor. Nor has
there been a formal apology. It's not even known how many victims of
the Magdalene laundries are still alive: they are not organized, and
many don't want to talk about this terrible part of their past.
Very few Churchmen in Ireland will comment on the scandal. An
exception is Willie Walsh, the Bishop of Killaloe. Over a cup of tea
in his residence, he said that it is "a source of pain and shame."
"These girls were rejected by society, and the Church in some way
thought it was giving refuge to these girls," he says. "I suppose ...
the Magdalene laundries was in some instances a form of slavery."
The Rev. Patrick O'Donovan is more outspoken.

"It's an appalling scandal," he says. "You could compare them to
concentration camps. ... The nuns thought they were doing good. ...
They
didn't realize the damage they were doing."
Mary Norris has campaigned to have a simple memorial built in the
convent where she was held. Thirty names are engraved on a simple
headstone; dating from 1876 to 1973. Some women spent their entire
lives in these institutions. Having been cut off from their
families, they had nowhere to go.

Norris says she no longer hates the nuns who oppressed her. "If I
hated them," she says, "they'd still be winning. They'd still have
control over me."


http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/DailyNews/Ireland_abuse030126.html
--- End forwarded message ---
----------------------gfhgfh---------------------------------------
Fwd: NASA's ancient pictures of mysterious bridge between India and Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2821 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Fwd: NASA's ancient pictures of mysterious bridge between India and srilanka(see clearly in bottom of the messages ok)

This is due to continental drifts.
For clarification from NASA itself, have a look at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jetusa/message/1492


Note on Rama's dating: Panchanga traditions aka
shaastrakaara(scientific) traditions got frozen ca. 500 BCE. For a
quick proof, current traditional panchangams place makara sankranti
and uttaraayanarambha on same day. Uttaryaanarambha is actually Winter
Solstice. Presently, uttaraayanaarambha is off by 26 days, due to
equinoctial precession. Thus we can conclude that these traditions
were frozen 26*71 = 1500 years ago. What we see today is what we see.

Well, Great Maha Bhaarata war took Place in 3067 BCE. Thus Raama date
should be around 5000 BCE. Of course, pauranikas(story tellers) say
that Rama ruled ayodhya for 60,000 years. It is a pauranika way of
exaggerating(adding sahasra to each number)

Parnashaala(near to Bhadrachalam, Godavari river) and Shabari(a river
between Chintoor and Bhadrachalam) are indeed historical places, where
Rama was present during his aranyavaasa ca. 5000 BCE. Unfortunately,
Archeological Survey of India does not sufficient funds to dig these
places.

And Babari Masjid is Raamayala(our secular scum bags say that Rama and
Krishna are mythical figures aka characters in soc.fi.* to getaway
from truths)


And Indian Secular(abrahamic) history starts with "Missing Noah
Descendants problem of 18th century PRIMITIVE christology", that
eastern habitants were missing noah descendants of their madeup
Gospel(Gospel Fraud during Roman empire time--tons of literature
available on this subject is available in stinky corners in reputed
Univ libraries.) And these people were Aryans(Missing Noah
Descendants). HAHA, and the secular scum bags like Romila Thapar, R.S
Sharma, son of reason Michael Witzel of Harvard ape this shit. No
Proof, No traces of such invasions in their european history.

And these scumbags place Maha Bharata war in 500 BC, and 2000 BC in
stone age(again secular[linear] time plays game here). Haha! These
bastards should understand that Great Mahabharata war was the last
episode of Great civilization, continued for alomost 5 million years.

For example, Sagara, Maandhaata, Bhagiratha, Ranthi Deva, Shibi
chakravarti, parashu raama(there is a link to Kerala), Satya
Harischandra etc are not mythical charactors, as told by
secular(abrahamic) fringe. There were indeed historical stories with
exaggerations(such as sahasra insetions etc)
-------------------gfgf---------------------------------
Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2819 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: RE:Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, RamNarayanReddy wrote:

> To put in simple words, "HAD THERE BEEN NO HINDUISM THERE WOULD NOT
>HAVE BEEN SO MANY RELIGIONS IN INDIA TODAY.

Well Said!

One can easily notice a paradox, when encounter with Abrahamic
religions. That paradox is TOLERANCE OF INTOLERANCE.

What the heck happened to Indian Justice System, when they(abrahamics)
preach intolerance, for example:

1. Practioners of Indic Traditions are DEVIL WORSHIPPERS. Which
Secular Bastard gave this right to these abrahamic religions.

2. Hindu deva, devata-s are DEVILS, as per these Abrahamic thugs.
Thats why one can see portrayal of Greeco-Roman Gods as Devils,
because they(greeco-romans) are pagans.

Why dont the Justice system ban these abrahamic religions? We knew
that answer too. The so called Indian Justice system is borrowed from
Christian Theology via Secularization(For more on this, Read S. N.,
Balagangadhara's "Who is Secular, My reader, Who religious")
-----------------------------------klklkl----------------------------
Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2815 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: RE:Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "reddy_sas2000
" wrote:


Hello V. V. Mathew, or agent of Biju Mathew, Why the heck are you
hanging with reddy postfix. It is called SECULAR chauvinism, aka
Abrahamic chauvinism.


The rural agriculture system got screwed up your Congress sunken
policies. They put billions of dollars on shitty major irrigation
projections. Thank (abrahamic) Lord, Congress leaders become filthy
rich due to these projects( for example, T. Subba Raami Reddy, anyway
Nellore Reddies are not anti-hindu, irrespective of their party
affliations)


Seems that you are a by-product of Nizam Rajakars. This is the very
reason, Hindus are getting united in Nizam/Telangana region.

Let me put Shilpa's views in different way:

POINTING HATREDNESS IS NOT HATREDNESS, Stupid. Of course, Secular
bastards see it as hatredness.

Pointing Muhemmadian barbaric acts is not barbaric.

Who were Kanishka, Hushka, and Jushka in Kashmir History. Read kalhana
Rajataringini samskrita original. These were Turushkas(of Turkey
Origin), who ruled Kashmir ca. 1400 BCE, before the birth of your
prophets Mohammad and Jesus. These rulers built ashramas for Vadidika
munis(There was no hinduism at that time: Hinduism itself is colonial
import), and chaityas for Bauddha Bikshus.


Idiot, your way of thinking shows that rural agricultural landlords as
Rich.


How many of Reddy Landlords in Anantapur killed themselves.

We should pontificate economically oppressed people as DALITs. Not for
sake of 'Vote for HAND':-)



> In what way the demolishion of Babri Masjid is useful for people of
> India? Does it create employement for many unemployed people ? In
> what way Hindu communal chavunism is going to useful for many rural
> agricultural labour?
>
>
--------------kkkl-
Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2801 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: RE:Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition

Let me give a logical analogue, rather than self-masturbatory mode,
the way psecs adapt:


There is Mr X. Reddy in Nalgonda. He was associated with Congress(I)
for a while. He is subjugating minorities in that area.

Does it mean that ReddyOnline is responsible for his chauvanism.

YES, as per YOUR SECULAR Gospel. This clearly shows your Bigotry.

NO on logical grounds. It is high time for psecs to take some logic
course.

When immorality increases in the West, people do not say
the "west is an immoral culture" because it *encourages* immorality.
They bemoan this fact and say that the `fundamental' western values
(or Christian values) need to be revived.

When immorality (say corruption etc) increases in India, people do
not say the same and call for a revival of Indian values.

No, they say that the Indian culture and society are corrupt. Why?
Because the values that the Indian society embody are not considered
moral. This concept promoted by Nehruvian-Marxist Brigade.

Again, your case is dismissed on bigotic, and Logical Grounds.




--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "reddy_sas2000
" wrote:
> Mr.Venkateswara Reddy,
>
> I read all your emails. What was the reason for Mr. Ghadse to
kill M
> K Gandhi? He was a Hindu chavunist.
>
> I can easily understand the state of thinking of the people who
are
> supporting the demolishion of Babri Masjid . They are perverted
> scoundrels.
>
> By using the words like "Bastards, Whores" you can not prove your
> any kind of hypothesis any where in the world . You should
remember
> other party also has same options what you have .
>
> V V Reddy
----kkk----------------------------------------------
Fwd: Rewriting history is not 'saffronisation' Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2798 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Rewriting history is not 'saffronisation'
N S RAJARAM

The history and historiography of India still
carry the colonial imprint. The task before us is to
place Indian history on a sound basis.

Philosopher George Santayana once said:
'History is always written wrong; it needs always to
be re-written.' This is particularly the case with
India, which has been the victim of invasions and
colonisation over several centuries. After India
became free in 1947, there were hopes that a
nationalist school of history might come into
existence and correct the distortions introduced by
colonial rulers. This was not to be. The history
establishment fell into the hands of a Westernized
elite hostile to Indian traditions and aspirations.
Recent attempts to rewrite history books, correcting
colonial and other distortions are meeting with fierce

resistance from vested interests. Instead of engaging
in debate, they seek to avoid change with cries of
'saffronisation.'

A basic prejudice about Indians that was
introduced by European scholars and repeated by their
Indian followers is that 'the ancients were
not at all concerned with keeping records for
posterity as we do today.' The very fact that
generations of Vedic priests took extraordinary pains
to preserve the Vedas is proof enough that they DID
want to preserve them for posterity. It was Karl Marx,
not any ancient Indian sage who insisted that
India had no history, and what is called history is
simply a record of successive intruders. This has now
become the central dogma of the Marxist school as
indeed it has for the inheritors of the Eurocentric
colonial thinking like Michael Witzel, who has now
become the main spokesman of anti-Hindu propaganda
masquerading as scholarship. This is what brings
together the Indian Marxists and some Western
Indologists on the issue of the Aryan invasion (or
migration).

Factual errors

History books written by such scholars are
riddled with factual errors and gross
misinterpretations. For example, there is ample
evidence to show that the Vedic civilization evolved
in India and was not brought by any invading Aryans
from Central Asia as claimed by European scholars and
their Marxist followers. The Rigveda for instance is
full of oceanic descriptions, with prayers for the
safety of ships and navigators. This shows that
the poets of the Rigveda could not have come from the
landlocked Central Asia. When presented with this
evidence, these scholars insist that Vedic
oceanic references are strictly celestial myths used
by poets who had never seen the ocean. While such
symbolism does exist in the Rigveda, the very fact
that the Vedic poets mythologized in terms of the sea
and ships shows they were intimately familiar with
them. Myths and legends associated with the
elephant-headed God Ganesha were not created by people
who had never seen the elephant. But oceanic
references in the Rigveda cannot so easily be
brushed aside just because they are inconvenient to
the upholders of the Aryan invasion theory.

What is really at issue is the teaching of
history and creating suitable historiographic
methodology for the study of ancient India.
The Vedas are part of Indian history and this history
cannot be perverted to suit the careers and
reputation of a few scholars. In order to derive
meaningful results, it is important to focus on
fundamentals-both facts and methodology. The last few
decades have thrown up a lot of new data from
diverse sources that pose a major challenge to
historians. These include the Vedic Sarasvati River
and the decipherment of the Indus (Harappan)
script.

All this cannot be ignored simply to save the
reputations of a few scholars with outdated ideas. We
expect the latest findings in physics, mathematics
and computer science to be taught in our schools and
colleges. History cannot be an exception. Our
children deserve nothing less.

History or colonial theology?

The current debate, ranging from Vedic
interpretations to Scientific contradictions, brings
an important point to light: it is not enough to
correct or remove distortions like the Aryan invasion;
nothing less than a fundamental re-examination of the
underlying historiography is called for.Otherwise,
more speculations and conjectures that contradict
empirical data are inevitable. When we do take a close
look at colonial historiography, two facts stand out.
First, the use of education, including history
education,as a political tool to sustain European
rule. Secondly, the application of a theological
approach to history by scholars more familiar with
Christian beliefs than science. This included such
luminaries as F. Max Muller who rejected Darwin's
Theory of Evolution in favor of the Biblical Creation
Theory, which holds that the world was created with
all its life forms at 9:00 AM, 23 October 4004 BC.
Lord Macaulay, who sponsored Max Muller, made
no secret of his plan to use education as a tool in
colonial administration.

In his own words: 'We must at present do our best to
form a class who may be interpreters between us and
the millions whom we govern; a class of persons,
Indian in blood and colour, but English in taste, in
opinions, in morals and in intellect.' This was an
integral part of the British divide and rule
strategy, for it created a privileged elite that had a
stake in colonial rule. As Lord Elphinstone, Governor
of Bombay observed, 'Divide and rule was Roman policy,
and it should be ours.'

But Macaulay and other educators went further.
They wanted Christianity to replace Hinduism, which
they felt would cement the rulers and the Indian elite
further. In a letter to his father, a Protestant
minister, Macaulay wrote: 'Our English schools are
flourishing wonderfully. The effect of this education
on the Hindus is prodigious. ...It is my belief
that if our plans of education are followed up, there
will not be a single idolator among the respectable
classes in Bengal thirty years hence.' Macaulay's
protégé Max Muller happily concurred in a letter to
his wife: 'It the Rigveda is the root of their
religion and to show them what the root is, I feel
sure, is the only way of uprooting all that has sprung
from it during the last three thousand years.' Two
years later he also wrote to the Duke of Argyle, then
acting Secretary of State for India: 'The ancient
religion of India is doomed. And if Christianity does
not take its place,whose fault will it be?' Reverend W
W Hunter was still more blunt when he said:
'Scholarship is warmed by the holy flame of Christian
zeal.'

It was this zeal for making Indian sources
conform to a Eurocentric belief system that is
responsible for the present unhappy state of
Indian history and historiography. There were
supplementary causes like German nationalism and
crackpot race theories that played a role but have
moved tothe fringes though race occasionally raises
its head in Indo-European studies. After independence,
Marxism, another Eurocentric doctrine, moved to
fill the vacuum left by the retreat of
Euro-colonialism.

While some scholars continue to use linguistic
arguments in support of their claims, linguistics has
shown itself to be of limited value while cosmology
gives rise to fiction and fantasy. Swami Vivekananda,
who possessed both deep scholarship and true
spirituality said more than a century ago: 'Study
Sanskrit, but along with it study Western sciences
as well. Learn accuracy, study and labour so that the
time will come when you can put our history on a
scientific basis. Now it is for us to strike
out an independent path of historical research for
ourselves, to study the Vedas and Puranas and the
ancient annals (Itihasas) of India, and from them
make it your sadhana (disciplined endeavor) to write
accurate, sympathetic and soul-inspiring history of
India. It is for Indians to write Indian history
you never cease to labor until you have revived the
glorious past of India in the consciousness of the
people. That will be the true national education, and
with its advancement, a true national spirit will be
awakened.'

More than a century later, this is yet to
happen though a few tentative steps are being taken.
We certainly cannot allow vested interests
to block progress with cries of 'saffronisation.'

(N S Rajaram is a mathematician, linguist and
historian. His books include Vedic Aryans and the
Origins of Civilization with David Frawley
and The Deciphered Indus Script with Natwar Jha)
-------------------------dfdfdf-----------------------------------
Do we need the Personal Laws by Religion ?????? Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2788 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Do we need the Personal Laws by Religion ??????

> From: "reddy_sas2000 "
> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 2003 18:20:08 -0000

> Secular India = Abrahamic India ?????????????

Yes for Second time. I already showed this in
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ReddyOnline/message/2737

Unless you are Blind Bigot, it is better to ban this
soul from this egroup for sake of peace.

> How can a social conscious person support Manu
> Dharma ???? Manu Dharma has segregated the society
>on caste lines .

Thats your version, inherited from Secular missionary
fathers' translations in the form of Indology
Scumbags. Read the Same Manu Dharma Verse 2.13
and
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ReddyOnline/message/2594



> Manu Dharma tells brownish black colored persons
>are untouchbles ???

Yo Secular Scumbag, Read the Samskr`ta originals,
rather than missionary english translation and get
back to me. I would love to debate with these silly
creatures and their missionary agents. Is it fun to
see such creatures. Yes, eh:-) There is a special name
given to this tribe, called ASURA.

An individual is asuric by his own past actions; we
must convert his heart or, failing which, we must
relieve him from his misery by ending his life. That
is the lesson we see in the story of Jaya -- Vijaya
(Hiranyaksha -- Hiranyakashipu). Our ancestors, who
are like the present-day social thinkers and
Constitution-abiding judges, have left ample examples
for us to take guide: wicked king Venu's dethroning by
the Rishis, Rishi Vishwamithra directing Rama and
Lakshmana to decimate troubling asuras around the
aashrams, Rishi Agasthya eliminating Vaathapi,
Chanakya masterminding the destruction of
selfish Nanda kings and the establishment of the
Maurya political structure, Aadi Shankara converting
the Buddhists back to the fold of Veda and thus
preserving the nation's strength by defeating
pacifism, etc.

Of course, for our learned Macaulay minds, this is all
a myth because the British told us so. We the
so-called intelligentia have lost all originality and
inquisitiveness even to question this Euro-centric
view of our nationhood. Then, why did we under
Gandhiji's leadership kick the British out?

We should have been secular and open-minded enough to
keep serving the British! We would not have any of
this "IDRF, RSS, or any Hindu Sympathitic
organization". We would all be the meek sheep singing
glory to Macaulay or Max Mueller, sending or giving up
OUR SISTERS to harems to foster Hindu-Muslim unity and
ridiculing our forefathers who lived in the "dark
ages" as told to us by Euro-centric historians, and
thus getting accolades and knighthood from our British
masters. What a shame!

As told in the Ithihasa of Uttanapada and Dhruva, even
from very ancient times (more than 7,500 years ago),
our ancestors taught their children to evolve into the
Supreme Oneness whose part we and all of Nature are.
Those mighty souls had traveled all over earth long
long time ago to ennoble humanity -- to humanise the
"two-legged beasts". They had deeply analysed the
nature of man's mind: slavery to one's own mind leads
to the asuri lifestyle, full of greed, corruption,
hatred, jealousy, amoralism, anger, or arrogance;
submitting the mind to the Oneness in Nature (be it
through work, worship or thought) leads to the divine
lifestyle full of nobility, unselfishness, moral
strength and virtue. True and lasting happiness,
well-being, and presence of an individual, family,
community, or nation is possible only with the latter
lifestyle and never with the former.

We simply have to recollect the many vanished cultures
and the only surving culture of ours to prove this
point. Codes for such healthy lifestyles were revealed
by scores of our ancient Rishis and passed on to us in
the form of Veda and Upanishads. King Rama of Ayodhya
personified this lifestyle to the fullest -- from
individual to nation. Hence, Sri Rama always
represents an important ideal to us and our nation.
Mahatma Gandhiji sought nothing but Rama Rajya. He did
not seek Babar-rajya nor British Rajya.

Case dismiTzed!
----------------------dfgdfg--------------------------------
Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2783 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
RE:Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition

"reddy_sas2000 " wrote:

> Then why RSS did not condemn Godse ???? Gandhi was
> for harijan uplift, but "so is RSS" is a big joke.

So you are adapting notorious Goebbels ‘doctrine’:
Repeat a lie hundred times, and it becomes truth.
Good! Keep it up, Missionary Brother!

Your case inherited from your missionary parents.
Bravo, I undestand your plight to save humanity.
Alright, your email is not worth to answer it. The
best answer to your future queries is to reroute 'em
to Sonia's Toilet:-)

[A note to members: I agree that most of the reddys
are part of so called COngress I party for various
political reasons. But that does not mean that
COngress I is good, nor salvation of humanity. The
reasons for reddy association with Congress I is MERE
POLITICAL. Thus whatever comments I gonna make abt
congress herein should not construe as denigration of
reddys. If you construe that my comments for
denigrating reddys, just you are showing ILLOGICAL
reasoning]

I am answering again for sake of other members.

Golwalker of RSS condemns the assasination of Gandhi.
For more info, go to Sonia Ashram.

"Sardar Patel, the Deputy Prime Minister, tonight
appealed to all sections of the people to keep calm.
He said that he was distressed to learn that in some
places in Bombay and Madras misguided members of the
public had indulged in acts of violence against
members of the Hindu Mahasabha and the RSS. “We
shall prove ourselves unworthy of Mahatma Gandhi’s
teachings and his trust in us if we yield to
feelings of revenge’ he said. - API.” Indian
Express, Feb 2, 1948

The Hindu’ of Madras, dated January 7, 1948.

“Sardar Patel realised that they (RSS) were not
actuated by selfish motives. The situation demanded
they should strengthen the hands of the Government
and assist in maintaining peace"

He also had a word of warning ‘to those who were in
power in the Congress’. He said, ‘In the Congress
those who are in power feel that by virtue, of their
authority they will be able to crush the RSS. You
cannot crush an Organisation by using the danda’.
The danda is meant for thieves and dacoits. After
all the RSS men are not thieves and, dacoits. They
are patriots who love their country.”

Walter Anderson, writing in his third analytical
article on RSS in ‘Economic and Political Weekly’
published from Bombay, dated March 25, 1972, says-:
The (Congress) Working Committee decision (dated
October 7, 1949) permitting RSS members to join
Congress, immediately set off a controversy.

“A. G. Kher, Minister of Local-Self Government in
Uttar Pradesh and a staunch follower of Patel,
responded to the criticism by asking why certain
Congressmen opposed the RSS when members of Arya
Samaj or the Jamat-ul-Ulema were eligible.

“It cannot be that they were involved in Gandhi’s
murder for they were EXONERATED of that charge in
Court of Law... (emphasis ours)

“He continued by saying, I Calling them Fascists,
abusing and insulting them, and again and again
repeating old charges does not serve any purpose,
nor is it a Gandhian method......."

After a lapse of over two decades, the Government
again instituted another enquiry into Gandhiji’s
murder. A Commission was set up in 1966 under T. L.
Kapur, a retired Judge of the Supreme Court, to make a
fresh and thorough enquiry into the plot to murder
Mahatma Gandhi. The Commission sat at different
places, - examined no less than 101 witnesses and 407
documents before it published its Report, in 1969. It
was an extensive -and searching enquiry. One of the
important witnesses was Sri R. N. Bannerjee, I.C.S.
(Witness 19) who was the Home Secretary of the Central
Government at the time of the murder.

"It has not been proved that they (the accused) were
members of the RSS which shows that they (the accused)
were believers in a more violent form of activities
than mere parades, rallies, physical exercises, and
even shooting practices." (Kapur Commission Report,
Vol. 1, Page 165)

Again, the learned Commission comments that even if
the RSS had been banned earlier, it would not have
affected the conspirators or the course of events,
‘because they (the accused) have not been proved to
have been members of the RSS nor has that organization
been shown to have had a hand in the murder.” (ibid,
Vol. I, page 186)

It is true that the RSS, was banned soon after the
murder of Mahatma Gandhi. But can a ban on RSS by an
executive authority prove the charge of murder? Let
Shri R. N. Bannerjee himself answer:

"Although RSS was banned it should not be taken to be
an acceptance by the Government of the allegation that
the murder of Mahatma Gandhi was by the members of RSS
as such." (ibid, Vol. 11, page 62)

The Commission further comments:

"In Delhi also there is no evidence that the RSS as
such was indulging in violent activities as against
Mahatma Gandhi or the top Congress leaders." (Ibid,
page 66)

Having made a searching enquiry into the conspiracy to
murder Mahatma Gandhi, the Kapur Commission
categorically declared:

"An experienced administrator like Mr. R. N. Bannerjee
has stated that the RSS as such were not responsible
for the murder of Mahatma Gandhi, meaning 'thereby
that one could not name the organisation as such as
being responsible for that most Diabolical crime', the
murder of the apostle of peace, the like of whom the
world, does not see excepting after centuries." (Ibid,
page 76) (Emphasis ours)

A Challenge Not Accepted
------------------------

Even a casual perusal of the historic correspondence
between Golwalkar and the Government of India, during
the days following Gandhiji’s murder till the lifting
of the ban (See the book ‘Justice on Trial’ published
from Bangalore) will show that the Government was
thoroughly aware of the innocence of the RSS and that
therefore they never dared to face an impartial
enquiry. To Pt. Nehru’s assertion that they have a
mass of information’ against RSS, Golwalkar had
challenged him to prove the charges to which no answer
was forthcoming. Golwalkar, in his letter of November
12, 1948, asks Pt. Nehru bluntly,

"If a Magistrate convicts a person for an offence,
however, small, without disclosing to him any
evidence, merely stating that there is a ‘lot of
information’ against him, the Magistrate’s conduct
stands self condemned. And when such grave charges are
made without bringing forward one iota of proof, what
‘shall we say? Have we retrogressed into the dark
ages, when the feelings, opinions and will of some one
individual or group were alone just and rational and
any person or group of persons could be awarded even
capital punishment just for the fun of it?’(Ibid : pp.
18, 19) To which also there was no reply.

Till this day, the same challenge is there before the
Government and till this day they have not accepted
it.


By 1948, Gandhi had become totally discredited for
muslim appeasement

Gandhi was asking the sikhs and hindus of west punjab
to go back and be killed by muslims. Gandhi's
assasination allowed Nehru to crush the Sardar Patel
faction using the hindutva bogey

Nehru also spread the big lie that majority
communalism was more dangerous than minority
communalism, despite minority communalism causing
partition by rioting


IT IS THE QUALITY OF BITCHY, BIGOTIC SECULAR CONGRESS,
Stupid! I will deal with Nehru Dynasty, Bastards, and
Whores(including our PV Narasimha Rao's plight for
Indira's LOVE(secular love)), when Time permits.

Regarding Harijan Upliftment:

Your scummy congress calls harijans as DALITs. Do you
know the reason, why this LUNATIC fringe call 'em as
Dalits.

1. Dalit = oppressed
2. Harijana = Devil worshipper, as per your Secular
missionary Brethern.

Thus, this secular congress, and their
mullah-marxist-missionary SCUMBAGS dont call 'em as
harijans. Wake up, Idiot.

Ekal Foundation by IDRF: www.ekalvidya.org:

The Ekal Vidyalaya Foundation of India and Ekal
Vidyalaya Foundation of USA are committed to the
eradication of illiteracy from remote and tribal
regions of India.

THIS Organization MADE your SECULAR MISSIONARY
BRETHERN so hard to convert tribes into Christianity.
Hey, are you getting any secular bribe per head for
converting into Christianity. I would request to
change your secular cloths to missionary cloths
hereby. It is a good business. You can get Honarary
Docterates from Secular Universities in USA to UK.

Here are the development projects in Andhra by IDRF:
http://www.idrf.org/seva_proj1/IDRF_PAG/ANDHRA/Andhrind.htm

yogabhaarati: http://www.yogabharati.org/

Bharata Vikas Parishad: The organization has
undertaken different projects like VANVASI KALYAN
YOJANA (the project to educate most illiterate tribes
in the country by adopting their children for
education). The other project is VIKALANG PUNARVAS
CENTER (Rehabilitation center for physically disabled
people). Bharat Vikas Parishad organizes camps in
different parts of the country and provides artificial
limbs, artificial hands, calipers, crunches, etc free
of cost. For net site,
http://members.tripod.com/~bvppaldi/

For sister orgs of IDRF:
http://www.idrf.org/frontpage/OtherOrgs.html


> How can Manu Dharma propagandists support harijan
>upliftment??

Probably your dad and grand parents are propagating
this shit chewed by Congy and their bastard colonial
masters. I refuted this shit at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ReddyOnline/message/2710

Idiot, go ahead and read that post and compare with
your secular(missionary) version. How come these
scumbags are allowed to shit in these egroups.


>
> Remember on thing because of Congress under the
> leadership of M K Gandhi at least India was formed
>otherwise we should have still under the rule of
>Queen victoria .

Your honor, we agree that, your grand parents and
Sonia grand parents WERE ONLY fought for Secular
India:-) All others are anti-Indian.


>
> Manu Vadi's (RSS, Hindu Mahasabha) never supported
> shudra's and muslims to enter into provincial
>governments in British India .

Dude, go to JNU, Delhi. There are great thinktanks of
Secular missionary propagandists. Preach your shit to
'em. They are very happy to chew this shit along with
you.

At Last, Your Case is dismissed on Bigotry grounds. I
would be happy to debate your secular gospel on
LOGICAL and EPISTEMOLOGICAL grounds, but not on
scumbag/hit and run level, the way Indologists,
Missionaries and Commies/Congies debate.
---------jk-------------------------------------------
Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2749 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition

Regarding RSS, Godse Issue:

I aint member of RSS.


*Nathuram Godse was first a member of congress, then left it due to
muslim appeasement
*Then he was in RSS for a few years, and left RSS in 1939, because he
felt it was too soft on muslims
*Then he joined hindu mahasabha led by Veer Savarkar, which was more
militantly anti-muslim
*In 1945, Savarkar fell sick and was replaced by Syama Prasad
Mukerji, who Godse felt was too soft on muslims
*Godse then started his own group and finally in 1948, fed up with
Gandhis muslim appeasement, assassinated Gandhi
*In the murder trial, apart from Godse's group, Savarkar of the Hindu
Mahasabha was also charged
*Savarkar was acquited
*No RSS member was charged with Gandhi's assasination I can point you
to a letter by Sardar Patel exonerating the RSS for the Gandhi
assassination

*In 1998, Noorani the islamist psec charged RSS with murdering Gandhi
and RSS took him to court wherein he tendered an apology

*Lets compare Gandhi to RSS Gandhi was against xtian missionaries ,
so is the RSS Gandhi was against cow slaughter, so is RSS
Gandhi was for reclamation of demolished temples, so is RSS
Gandhi was for harijan uplift, so is RSS

The key point was that RSS was opposed to Gandhi's muslim appeasement
Gandhi's muslim appeasement failed and pakistan was formed

http://www.hvk.org/specialrepo/tat/tat.html



--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "reddy_sas2000"
wrote:
> Dear Members,
>
> The organisers of IDRF are the supporters of "Hindu fanatic
Nathuram
> Godsey" and they are using "Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi" for
> their 'Let India Develop Campaign'. It is shame on their part and
> they are ideologically defeated by "www.stopfundinghate.org" .
>
> Thanks for the work done by the Biju Mathew and his associates to
> make aware of this IDRF to the people of India.
>
> V V Reddy
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In ReddyOnline@y..., Venkateswara Reddy wrote:
> > Dear members,
> > Pls. check the appended email to check the hate
> > compaign against a non-profit org IDRF, by so called
> > p-secs in India, and their association with 9-11
> > lunatics.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > VR
> >
> > Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:06:55 -0500
> > From: ank@r...
> > To: ank@r...
> > Subject: Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition
> >
> > Dear friend:
> >
> > You may be aware that a virulent hate campaign has
> > been launched by lunatic fringe of Marxists based in
> > USA. It is in the form of a campaign called "The
> > Campaign to Stop Funding Hate" and is aimed at a
> > volunteer-based charity India Development & Relief
> > Fund (IDRF). This campaign seeks to mislead, deceive,
> > and/or intimidate the well-meaning Indians, inspired
> > by Swami Vivekananda and Mahatma Gandhi, who want to
> > serve the poor and underprivileged of India. The
> > campaign aims to stop fundraising of IDRF in USA and
> > the biggest casualty of this senseless campaign would
> > be those who need our support the most - the poorest
> > of the poor downtrodden of India.
> >
> > We would like you to visit the petition's website at
> >
> > http://www.letindiadevelop.org
> >
> > and sign the petition. Let your voice be heard. If we
> > fail to act at this critical juncture, the people who
> > repeatedly invoke Mahatma Gandhi's name to perpetuate
> > their hatred for anything Indian, will succeed in
> > their sinister plans.
> >
> > We urge you to act proactively and support the
> > petition.
> >
> > Jai Bharat & Jai USA!
> >
> > PS: My investigations point to a handful of
> > Paki/Muslim shenanigans who are active supporters of
> > 9/11 type Osama terrorists + the asuri Taliban as
> > being the incubators of this and similar "Hate India"
> > campaigns in USA. One of them circulated the below
> > email that throws light on their "Hate India" campaign
> > in the guise of secularism. You may kindly read it
> > too, and use your own common sense to figure out the
> > real nature of this "Hate India" and "damn India"
> > terrorist club. Almost all of Islamic charities in USA
> > funnelled funds to Osama's terror networks, and hence
> > have been shut down by US Government. The war of this
> > pro-Taliban club against IDRF is thus understandable.
> >
> > Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:10:43 -0500
> > To: secular-publicity@M...
> > From: "A. Sur"
> > Subject: campaign to stop funding hate
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > This is a call for help.
> >
> > As you might already know, some of us have been
> > working on launching the "Campaign to Stop Funding
> > Hate" in order to staunch the flow of NRI money to the
> > Sangh Parivar. A report detailing the links between
> > IDRF (an organization that collects money here
> > ostensibly for relief and charity) and the Sangh
> > Parivar was released to the press today both here and
> > in India. The text of the report is available at
> > http://www.mnet.fr/aiindex/2002/FEH (Harsh Kapoor's
> > site), http://www.sabrang.com/hnfund/sacw/index.html
> > (the Communalism Combat site),
> > http://www.outlookindia.com and on the webpage of the
> > campaign itself: http://www.stopfundinghate.org
> >
> > The response from the press has been great so far.
> > Many Indian papers and magazines have already carried
> > the story and our own Biju Mathew was on Star News TV
> > debating VHP President Vishnu Hari Dalmiya (and
> > according to early reports "made mincemeat out of
> > him").
> >
> > But this is only the beginning. We could use a LOT of
> > help. At this time, what we need you to do is to visit
> > the campaign's web-site and sign the petition that you
> > will find there. We are hoping to generate at least
> > 1,000 signatures by the end of the week. Please
> > (please, please) add your signature and forward this
> > call to as many as possible.
> >
> > Visit the campaign website
> > http://www.stopfundinghate.org or go directly to the
> > petition at
> > http://www.stopfundinghate.org/cgi-bin/WhyStopIt.pl as
> > soon as you get a chance and help us out. Many thanks.
> >
> > We will be calling on you for more as the campaign
> > progresses.
> >
> > In solidarity and struggle,
> > Ali
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
-------------------------------dfgdfgdf-------------------------------------
Do we need the Personal Laws by Religion ?????? Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2738 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Do we need the Personal Laws by Religion ??????

1. Indic traditions (analogous to roman 'traditio') are not religion-
s.

2. It took 800 years to wipe out pagans in Roman world. Then, our
Xian brethern appropriated then majority pagans' history as theirs.
How many of our humanities' scum bags preach this truth. They dont.
Because, they are the same missionary brothers in secular guise.

3.Roman 'religiones' is plural of 'religio' = 'traditio'

4 Now, christianity become religion. In otherwords, it appropriated
their counterparts, and wiped out the 'others'

5 The so-called Indian Secular Law written by Rev. Macaulay. How
come these 'secular scum bags' adapted christian theological frame
work in India, at the same time, accepting Christian Theology as TRUE.
Thus, Secular India = Abrahamic India. This is implicit expansion of
Christianity, which is dangerous than Proselytization. These sons of
maccaulay(from Nehru to present crop of politicians) screwed up India
very badly.

6 These abrahamic legal systems are based on "Normative Ethics" ( Set
of Norms--They never change wrt space-time). Thus, Justice system
become Blind.

7.Ancient Bharata legal system is not NORMative. For example, read
the historical stories in puraaNa-s, you never notice any universal
law-s, codes. Probably, everybody might have read Maryaada raamanna
stories and its variants. These stories never reflect Normative
Ethics.

\Regards,
VR


--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "reddy_sas2000
" wrote:
>
> Hindu Marriage Act
> http://www.indianlegaleagle.com/laws/personal/hmarriage/
> Hindu Succession Act
> http://www.indianlegaleagle.com/laws/personal/hsuccession/
> Hindu Minority & Guardianship Act
> http://www.indianlegaleagle.com/laws/personal/hmg/
> Hindu Adoption & Maintenance Act
> http://www.indianlegaleagle.com/laws/personal/adoption/
> Muslim Laws
> http://www.indianlegaleagle.com/laws/personal/muslim/
> Wakf Act
> http://www.indianlegaleagle.com/laws/personal/wakf/
> Special Marriage Act
> http://www.indianlegaleagle.com/laws/personal/spmarriage/
> Law Wills
> http://www.indianlegaleagle.com/laws/personal/wills/
------------------------------jkjkjkkj-----------------------
The tirade against NCERT - A Conspiracy Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2660 of 36214 < Prev | Next >


Forwarded Message:

The tirade against NCERT – A Conspiracy, Author: D. Sinha,

The National Curriculum Framework for School Education (NCFSE-2000)
was formulated and released by the National Council for Education
Research & Training (NCERT) in November, 2000. Following its
release, the 'pseudo-secularists', 'Marxists' and 'Macaulayists'
were tip in arms. They saw the NCFSE-2000 as a threat to their dream
of diluting the intensity of Indian Nationalism. A tirade, based on
falsehood, untruths and half-truths was launched against the NCFSE-
2000 as well as NCERT. Concerted attempts were made to spread
misinformation to cloud the truth. The National Press was used as a
tool in this misinformation campaign. The Supreme Court was
approached by these conspirators with the hope that they would be
able to get its stamp of authority, to further their ulterior
motives. Distorted facts and motivated objections were projected
before the Court. But that was not proved. A hullabaloo was created
by these anti-national elements and which had clouded the truth but
ended with a whimper with the Supreme Court finally settling the
issue in favour of NCERT with its Judgement delivered on 12th
September.'2002. The Judgement has cleared the dust raised by the so-
called national press and the entire issue can now be seen in its
true perspective. But first the facts.

THE FACTS

NCERT is an apex resource organization, established by the Govt. of
India in 1962, with the objective to assist and advise the Central
and State Govt. on academic matters related to school education.
Besides promoting unity in standards of education throughout the
country and publishing books for both the teachers and the taught
and undertaken similar related activities, the development and
formulation of a curriculum framework for school education has been
an important activity of NCERT. The first Curriculum Framework was
developed by NCERT in 1975. Thereafter, based on the recommendations
made in the National Policy on Education, 1986 (formulated by the
Rajiv Gandhi Govt.), the 'National Curriculum for Elementary and
Secondary Education: A Framework', was developed in 1988, by NCERT.
The Programme of Action, formulated in 1992 to implement the
National Policy on Education, 1986, clearly spelt out a need for the
modernization of the curriculum framework, keeping in view the
increased emphasis on some issues of major concern, advances in
knowledge and pedagogical considerations. It further advised NCERT
to initiate the necessary changes before the end of the 8th Plan
Period. This was re-emphasized in the 9th Five Year Plan document,
out of concern that the curriculum had not been reviewed and
modernized.

NCERT undertook the curriculum renewal work from 1997. The work was
expedited from 1999 onwards. After widespread consultation, with
practically everybody, everywhere, connected with education,
including educationists, teachers, research institutions,
international bodies, and the State Govt., the National Curriculum
Framework for School Education' (NCFSE-2000) was released by NCERT,
in November, 2000.

As soon as the NCFSE-2000 was published, the Marxists, Macaulayists
and the National press orchestrated a campaign of allegations and
calumny -'education is being saffronised', 'it is violative of
constitutional commitment to secularism'. 'Sanskrit language. 'Vedic
Math's' and 'Vedic Astrology', as part of Hindutya agenda are being
imposed etc. Newspapers were flooded with articles highlighting the
alleged perfidy of BJP Govt.; so were the prime time chat shows on
TV channels. The explanations given by NCERT were drowned in the din
of protests, allegations and apprehensions. The pseudo-secularists
finally joined together and filed a PIL in Supreme Court to stall
the implementation of NCFSE2000.

THE PIL IN SUPREME COURT

Tire issues raised in the Writ Petition filed in the Supreme Court
against the NCFSE-2000 by the group of Marxists and their fellow
travelers were:-

1. The NCERT and the Govt. have not sought the approval of the
Central Advisory Board of Education (CABE) to the NCFSE-2000 and
without obtaining the approval of CABE, the NCFSE cannot be
implemented.
2.The NCFSE and Syllabus, framed there under are unconstitutional as
the same are violative of the rubric of secularism, which is part of
the basic structure of our constitution. And that the NCFSE
pertaining to education for value development is violative of
Article 28 of the Constitution.
3.The NCFSE imposes Sanskrit language in an unjustified manner;
4.The NCFSE imposes Vedic Astrology;
5.The Vedic Mathematics has been imposed by NCFSE;
6.The NCFSE treats Hindu Festivals as National Festivals;
7.The NCFSE distorts history, when it uses the words "Mughal invaded
the country" as against "Britisher conquered the Country".
The matter was heard by the Bench consisting of Mr. Justice M. B.
Shah, Mr. Justice D. M. Dharmadhikari and Mr. Justice H.K. Sema. The
Bench dismissed the Writ Petition (Civil) No.98 of 2002 and in the
Judgement delivered on Sept. 12, 2002, all the three Hon'ble Judges
are largely unanimous in their findings although they have given
separate judgements with minor divergence in approach. The findings
and observations on the major contentions of the petitioner are
given below: -

1.On non-consultation with CABE on NCFSE-2002 Mr. Justice Shah held
that "The contention of learned Senior Counsel for the petitioner
that as CABE is not consulted on it and its approval was not sought
by Govt. before framing the NCFSE-2000, the said policy requires to
be set aside, cannot be accepted".

2.That NCFSE and the value based syllabus framed there under, which
prescribes religious education, violates the Article-28 of the
Indian Constitution and its secular character. While dismissing the
petition, Justice Shah observed 'This National Curriculum is
prepared on the basis of report submitted to the Parliament on 22nd
Jan., 1999 by the S. B. Chavan Committee which was appointed by the
Parliament in 1996. The Report of the Committee is based on earlier
reports submitted by various Committees, namely, the Radha Krishanan
Commission (1948-49), Kothari Commission (1964-66), National Policy
of Education (1986), Ramamurthi Commission (1990), CABE Committee on
Policy (1992), Planning Commission Core Group on Value Orientation
of Education on (1992), which have highlighted the urgent need for
making the educational system value-based". He further held "it
appears to be wrong presumption and contention that knowledge of
different religions would bring disharmony in the society. On the
contrary, knowledge of various religious philosophies is material
for bringing communal harmony as ignorance breeds hatred, because of
wrong notions, assumption preaching and propaganda by misguided
interested persons. " He further held "in our view, the
word 'religion' should not be misunderstood, nor contention could be
raised that as it is in the national policy of education, secularism
would be at peril."

3.On the contention that Sanskrit language is imposed in an
unjustified manner, the judgement held that the allegation is wholly
wrong. It observed that "We entertain no doubt in our mind that
teaching of Sanskrit alone as an elective subject can in no way be
regarded as against secularism." It further held "We, therefore,
conclude by saying that in view of importance of Sanskrit for
nurturing our cultural heritage, because of which even the
educational policy has high lighted the need of study of Sanskrit;
making alone, as an elective subject, while not conceding this
status to Arabic/ or Persian would not in any way militate against
the basic tenet of secularism. There is thus not merit in the
objection...."

4.The contention regarding inclusion of Vedic Astrology in NCFSE, to
say the least, is baseless. There is no mention of Vedic Astrology
in the Curriculum Framework. This is like looking for a non-existent
black cat, in a dark room. The submissions in this regard by the
Petitioners were summarily dismissed by the Hon'ble Court.

5.The allegation regarding imposition of Vedic Mathematics is
equally wild and baseless. The 128 page NCFSE document mentions just
one line about Vedic Mathematics "The students may, be encouraged to
enhance their computational skill by the use of Vedic Mathematics".
It does not in any way suggest imposition of Vedic Mathematics. The
biased and prejudiced minds who had distorted facts for ulterior
political motives, now stand rejected by the Supreme Court.

6.It had been contended by the Petitioners that Hindu Festivals have
been treated as National Festival. But the Court found it to be a
distortion' as the curriculum book nowhere says so'.

7.The petitioners also contended that there is also distortion of
version of history by using the words 'Mughals invaded the country'
as against 'Britishers conquered the country'. This argument was so
frivolous that the Hon'ble Court just did not consider it. It held
that "the aforesaid submission does not deserve any consideration
hence rejected".

With the Supreme Court judgement, all objections, which were
primarily motivated, stand rejected; all hurdles in the way of
making education a vehicle of taking this ancient nation to greater
heights and glory have been cleared. But the question still remains:
Why was a non-issue spun into a controversy? Who are the people
behind it and what do they stand to gain?

MACAULAYISTS, MISSIONARIES, MADARSAS AND MARXISTS COMBINE

In the early decades of the 19th Century, the Marathas had been
decidedly defeated, and most of India now lay under British control.
The Rajas and Nawabs were defeated, but not the people. They had
their natural pride and were decidedly hostile to foreigners who had
usurped their land. Britishers knew that a handful of white men
cannot rule the vast sea of humanity, which nursed anger against
them. What could be done to safeguard their interests? Two officers
of the East India Company - Thomas Babbington Macaulay and his
brother-in-law Sir Charles Travelyan had seen how the English
education had the effect of de-Indianising natives. Traveleyan has
noted in one of his works "Educated in the same way, interested in
the same objects, English than Hindus.... The young men brought up
in our seminaries, turn with contempt from barbarous disposition
under which their ancestors groaned... instead of regarding us with
dislike, they court our society ... the summit of their ambition is,
to resemble us...(Quoted from Nationalism and Distortions in Indian
History by N.S. Rajaram, Namishaa Research Foundation, Bangalore;
page 71) Macaulay also realized that Indians with English education,
whose "summit of their ambition is to resemble like Englishmen"
could never be a threat to English rule in the country. With this
formulation, he came up with his famous minutes in which he pleaded
for imparting English education to all Indians to safeguard the
empire. He wrote "we must at present do our best to form a class who
may be interpreters between us and the millions whom we govern; a
class a persons, Indian in blood and colour, but English in taste,
in opinion, in morals and in intellect. "The colonial masters heeded
the advise to set up schools imparting English education all through
the empire. Thus generations of servile colonial servants devoid of
national pride were created. Today's largely denationalized western
educated Indian elite is a living testimony of Maculay's and
thriving in India.

Nationhood among Indians is also a stumbling block to the evangelist
designs of the Christian missionaries. The type of Madarsas,
(Islamic schools) that produced Talibans (students), the radical
Islamists in Pakistan, are also thriving in India. It is the
Indianness of the Indians that is in their way of converting India
into Darulul-Islam (Land of Islam),

Last, but not the least, Marxists, though uprooted in their own
fatherland, are thriving in India, and still harbouring the dream of
world domination of International Communism. Nationalism of the
Indian masses is the biggest spanner in the realization of their
dreams.

Thus, for the Macaulayists-Marxists Missionaries-Madarsas, the
Indian nationhood with pride in its culture and heritage is their
biggest enemy. They have been trying all these years to dilute the
intensity of Indian nationalism. They tried to divide the Indian
society on the basis of religion, language, and caste in a bid to
weaken national solidarity. For them every divisive idea is a weapon
to disintegrate Indianness. Only in a fragmented, weakened society,
can they hope to advance their agenda. All efforts and programmes
that strengthen Indian nationhood and create a sense of pride in
India's heritage is an anathema to them.

The National Curriculum Framework -2000, evolved by NCERT, seeks to
impart Value Oriented Education, with pride in national heritage. It
could not be swallowed by the Macaulayists Missionaries-Madarsas-
Marxists combine, and so a conspiracy was hatched and a tirade was
launched against NCERT and the NCFSE-2000. All sorts of untruths and
half-truths were hurled. The din of false propaganda became
deafening. But all the sound and fury has ended with the Supreme
Court judgement. Satyamev Jayate (The truth prevails).
------------------kjkjj------------------------------------------
Is Congress Party truely secular ???? Message List
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--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, shilpi reddy
wrote:


>required)- Personally I am happy to find so many progressive and
>constructive voices among us.

It is common for us to use English language as secular language. I am
not faulting for this. Somehow, these things got ingrained in our
daily life. Let me delineate the the secular meaning of
progressivism, how the primitive 18th century europeans defined.

Prior to the nineteenth century, it was piously believed in western
civilization that the earth was created in seven days at around five
thousand years ago. The Biblical version of creation was challenged
by the dual developments of Darwinism and the discovery of dinosaur
fossils. Even though the gradual acceptance of these new ideas forced
a revision of geological time scales, a corresponding revision within
archeological studies lagged. Part of this may have been due to
another emerging ideology of the nineteenth century called
progressivism. Progressivism is the idea that human beings are in a
progressive march towards a goal of better living and greater
knowledge. This seductive ideology had its roots in earlier centuries
but had its greatest impact in the second half of the nineteenth
century where it influenced the thinking of such great men as Darwin
and Marx. Although it is easy to accept and defend this way of
thinking as logical and sound, it does have some devious
implications. In a simplistic way it implies that we as a species are
infinitely more cleaver than our ancestors. Since it is possible to
measure our advancement in linear terms, there must be a point beyond
which in the past human beings were infinitely stupid and not clever.
Such human beings were incapable of civilization and they must have
lived just prior to six thousand years ago.

Besides this, the second law of thermodynamics is believed to be
correct at THIS EPOCH ONLY(ref: recent Scientific American monthly-I
forgot the maganize month details). This is linear vs. cyclical issue.
-----------------------------------------------------jjjjj---
V S Naipaul: Casteist. Communalist. Racist. And Now, A Nobel Laurea Message List
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Re: V S Naipaul: Casteist. Communalist. Racist. And Now, A Nobel Laureate

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "reddy_sas2000
" wrote:

Hmm. VS Nailpaul is married to a muslim(a muslim reformer)

A note on the URL, you supplied:-

A hindu hate mongering moslem in the guise of "Hindu historian", as
your 18th century primitive missionaries in the guise of historian,
wrote the following article.

http://65.107.211.208/india/religion/hindu/hinduov.html



> Dear All,
> http://65.107.211.208/caribbean/naipaul/meena.html
------------------------------------------gjgj------
Is Congress Party truely secular ???? Message List
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--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "reddy_sas2000 wrote:


> fascist, irrational qualities and belivers of Manu Dharma.

Same remark, as his colonial masters made in the form of Secularism
to uproot Hindu dharma.

Regarding Manu, etc. these MacCaulay-putras conveniently hide what
every smrithikarta had stated: "These are prevelant conditions and
social, religious customs of various communities and countries all
over Bharatvarsha". These MacCaulay-putras also hide the fact that
several sentences of these "non-scriptures" were erased and
distortions were re-written by their mentors and hired Hindu slaves in
Asiatic Society of Bengal and Asiatic Society of London during the
18th century. Even a new Samskritha dictionary "Vaachaspathyam", with
careful distortions of many Vedic words, was compiled to trash "Amara
Kosha", debase Vedas and smrithigranthas, and uproot Hindu dharma.
Now this crop of colonial slavery in the guise christian secularial
theology(for more, I will post from 18th century European writes, if
time permits) is continuing this holy job now.


For example:-

Case #1:

"This is from Manusr`ti ch.1, verse 83:

arOgAH sarvasidDhArThAschaturvarSashatAyuSaH
kr`tatrEtAdiSu hYESAmAyurhrasati pAdashaH ||

Meaning: In kr`tayuga people don't suffer from disease. They enjoy
everything and live 400 varSa-s. In trEtA, etc. yuga-s, their
lifespan decreases by one quarter (from the previous yuga) - i.e., it
decreases by 100 varSa-s.

Translations and commentaries of this verse are seen to be
same in all such works to date (kallUka Bhatta, mEDhAtiThi,
Beuler, SheSa Navaratna, etc.).

Vaidika-s quote Shruti,

"shatamAnam Bhavati shatAyuH puruSaH" etc., which says that human
lifespan is 100 years on earth. So, the above verse of Manusmr`ti
shaastra too stands INCORRECT as per Shruti. This shruti declaration
sheds light on Dating Raamayana, thus:

Prof. Bankim Chattopadhyaya (Bharatiya History from Bharatiya
viewpoint, Itihasa sankalana samiti, Kalkotta) has quoted that purANa-
s state Shree Raama ruled for 60,000 years (he lived in trEtAyuga
when lifespan was 10,000 years according to ISKCON version of
Bhagavata etc), and that it is the style of the purANa-s to
add "sahasra" as in story telling. This way he was able to fit the
chronologies of chandra and sUrya vamsha kings of the very purANa-s.

Case #2:

Manusmr`ti says BraahmaNas are "born" from Brahma's head, etc. but
SHRUTI DOES NOT say so. Shruti (in Purushasooktam) says: From (His)
feet are born shudra-s. Before this shruti also says everything, the
whole universe was born from His feet. So, the two tegether means:
all are born shudra-s. Then by support "thighs", a vaishya s "made";
from work of "power shoulders", a king is "made" (kr`tah is the word
used); one who "sits" (aaseet is the verb used) on His face (becomes)
BraahmaNa. So, the real imoprt of shruti (all born are shudra-s, by
support, work or wisdom the born becomes one of the varna-s) got
distorted in the shaastra. This was beginning of humanities' ownfall,
Satyayuga had ended by then!

The supposed inequality of Manu stands incorrect per SHRUTI.


In such matters we need to check what the Veda-s say. Due to pedagogy
and various paatakrama rules, Veda mantra-s have remained the same.
It is impossible to distort their words. That was the genius of the
Rishi-s. Westerners opine our sages did not know writing, so they
resorted to memory, therefore it is called 'shruti', etc. all big
rubbish. Person-to-person teaching and carrying down by memory is the
best failsafe gaurd against mutilations. Writing alone would have
distorted and wiped out the Veda-s long time ago, certainly the
British burnt every ancient book they got hold of that went against
their biblical theories. But the Veda-s were inside the head of
countless pandita-s they could not wipe out, so they tried the next
best by distorting Samskr`ta word and Veda mantra meanings. Anyway,
it is another sorry subject.
-------------------hjgj------------------------------------------
Is Congress Party truely secular ???? Message List
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Xian missionaries sponsor Naxalites

They switched over from socio-religious activities to politico-
religious mode and even joined hands with the forces of Left
extremists. Christian missionaries always treated the Communists as
untouchables. However, when western lobby pampered the Left
extremists for their anti Russian stand, Christian institutions also
gave them shelter in Church sponsored voluntary organisations. The
move was to fight against the growing influence of the Hindu
revivalists among the tribals.

http://www.saag.org/papers6/paper511.html

Regards,
VR


--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, shilpi reddy
wrote:
>
> i think the problem is with naxals,communists and collateral
>islamic supremacists in india- communists are successfully making
>our community enemy of dalits etc. by spreading rumours in media-
> "that way they are killing two birds for one shot- divide us and
>get their own vote banks"- we had to be cautious and work unitedly
>to kick out the vestiges of communists,islamists and colonialists.
> regards,
> shilpi
--------------------------------------jgjgjg--------------
Is Congress Party truely secular ???? Message List
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Re: Is Congress Party truely secular ????

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, shilpi reddy
wrote:


> i read a reference in a colloqial of historical book "madhura
>vijayam" writeen by ganga devi that muslim invaders butchered the
>later reddy and yadav dynasties without leaving a trace. this
>happened when vijayanagar empire fell to the barbarians. "the psuedo
>academicians conveniently forget what happened hampi, kashmir.."

Heard of Kunti Malla Reddy Story told by bikshakonti reddys in rayala
seema region. Of course, the curret lunatic fringe of psecs say that
these stories are myths. They are rather historical facts. How these
muslim fanatics subjugated reddys. This is the very reason for
migration of reddys.
------------hhgj------------------------
Is Congress Party truely secular ???? Message List
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Pseudo secularism Vs. Fascim


I whole-heartedly agree with VNR post. It clearly show the prejudice
of intellectual asura-s in India, and these egroups.

1. Marxists and Indira Congress can court for muslim and christian
(abrahamic) voters by whatever means they like, such as being anti-
hindu--This is PSEUDO secular.

2. These intellectual asura-s(Romila Thapar, S. Chandra, RS Sharma,
Vijay Prashad, Biju Mathews, Michael Witzel, Steve Farmer, Sid Harth
et al) show hatredness toward BJP/any party who courting for hindu
voters and labeling this as "facism" by this fringe of lunatics. Of
course, I agree that BJP is not secular either. Why dont these
sadists show the same fairness towards rotten parties and their
courting for Muslims/Xians Voters. For example, Andhra Govt take
money outta TTD(Tirupati-Tirumala Devastanam) and funnel this money
to other religious activities(Mosques and Churches).


Stick to Point, Sid Harth.






--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "vnr1995 "
wrote:
>
> This does not mean "Congress is meant for Reddy(s) salvation".
>
> It is high time for us(esp. neo-colonised people and psecs) to
learn
> logic, rather than being proud of computer logic.
>
> Appended is an example by Prof. SN Balagangadhara:-
>
> /START
>
> (A) Consider the following sequence of sentences:
>
> 1. All Indians are perfectly and fully moral.
> 2. All westerners are perfectly fully moral.
> 3. All Indians are immoral.
> 4. All westerners are immoral.
>
> For sentences (1) and (2), all it takes is one instance of
immorality
> to be proven wrong. Our proverbial municipal clerk would be
immoral,
> and it would disprove the sentence (1). The same example could also
> confirm sentence (3); an instance of a moral act would also be a
> counter-example.
>
> Now, when the municipal clerk is brought out as an instance, what
> exactly is its status? Is it intended as an example of (3) or as a
> counter example to (1)? Probably neither, because no one on this
> board believes either (1) or (3). Consequently, it can illustrate
> another claim:
>
> 5. Some Indians are immoral.
>
> This is undisputed; and we all take (5) to be true. In fact, we all
> believe
>
> 6. Some westerners are immoral.
>
> Or, more generically,
>
> 7. There are immoral people in both the west and India.
>
> So, the municipal clerk (and something analogous in the west) would
> be seen as a confirmation of the sentence (7). Since nobody is
> disputing this, and yet there is a dispute about the municipal
clerk,
> the sentence (7) is not at issue either.
>
> (B) Let us see whether the issue is about corruption. To begin
with,
> let us simply say that "immorality=corruption". But this time, let
us
> begin with the following sentence:
>
> 8. Some Indians are corrupt.
>
> No argument from any one. (To me, this is true as much as the
claim:
> some westerners are corrupt, some Africans are corrupt, some Asians
> are corrupt and some American-Indians are corrupt.) The dispute
about
> the municipal clerk cannot be with respect to the above either. How
> about
>
> 9. All Indians are corrupt.
>
> Most of us disagree with this; most of us do not believe it to be
> true either. In any case, those with whom I am arguing (Kannan,
Arun,
> Arjun, Tapori, Cynical, to name just a few) do not definitely
> subscribe to this. Therefore, the municipal clerk example is not
seen
> by any of us as an example of sentence (9).
>
> So, if the example of the municipal clerk, or the building
> contractor, is not an example of either (8) or (9), what else is it
> an example of or counter example to? Logically, there is only one
> option left:
>
> 10. No Indian is corrupt.
>
> But every one of us, including me, believe sentence (8) to be true.
> From this it follows that (10) is false. To make it clear, I do not
> subscribe to sentence (10) at all.
>
> So, we are left with a problem. If there is consensus among us
about
> which of the above sentences are true, and which are false, why are
> we still disputing? Why do people feel obliged to come with
instances
> like the municipal clerk or the building contractor? *What is it an
> example of, what is it a counter-example to*? What precisely are we
> disputing?
>
> (C) There is also another common agreement because of the
> definitional equivalence. All acts of corruption and ethics are
> *individual* acts, i.e., individuals are either corrupt (immoral)
or
> not corrupt (moral). So, we cannot be disagreeing about this
either.
> So, why do people feel the urge to come with some or another
> instance, some argument or the other, and have a dispute with me?
> Where do we disagree?
>
> (D) The next step is to break the definitional equivalence. Two of
> the issues about which there could be a dispute (of the possible
> four):
>
> 11. Some corrupt acts are moral.
> 12. Some non-corrupt acts are not immoral.
>
> There has been some discussion about the sentence (11), but at a
very
> late stage in the argument. (Especially in my post to Arun, where I
> invite him to think of scenario's where 11 could be true, using the
> Indian psychology). But whatever it may be, the clerk and the
> building contractor could not be about this: I kept insisting that
> one is *not* defending that corruption is either morally good or
bad,
> and that one needed to understand what it was before making a moral
> judgement either way.
>
> So, what have we been discussing all along, and where is the
dispute
> to be located?
>
> (E) Here is my hypothesis. The discussion has been about the
> sentence "corruption is a social phenomenon" and what we understand
> this sentence means. We are at loggerheads about the scope of this
> sentence. I believe you do not quite appreciate the consequences of
> your interpretation. Let me approach my hypothesis by steps as
well.
> (F) Consider the following sentences:
>
> 13 There are more corrupt Indians than there are corrupt
westerners.
> 14 There are more corrupt persons in India than elsewhere.
> 15 In terms of the percentage of corrupt to non-corrupt people,
India
> ranks 73rd in the list of nations.
>
> These are some possible ways of interpreting the claim that "India
is
> a corrupt nation". None of these are acceptable because no research
> has been done by anyone, anywhere in the world, at anytime that can
> provide us with any semblance of evidence that can justify such a
> statement.
>
> Quite obviously, that claim that India is a corrupt nation (or that
> corruption is rampant in India) cannot refer to statements like
> above. Let us bring in the organisation to which the municipal
clerk
> belongs, in order to see whether it makes sense.
>
> 16 The Indian bureaucracy is corrupt.
> 17 In 72 other nations, bureaucracy is less corrupt.
> 18 The bureaucracy in some countries is more corrupt than
bureaucracy
> elsewhere.
> 19 The manner in which the bureaucracy, the police, the justice
> system is corrupt in India is different from the way similar
> organisations are corrupt in the USA.
>
> The sentence is (16) is true, but no implications follow from this.
> May be, that is because all bureaucracies are corrupt: because of
> Nehruvian Socialism in India, Fascism in Germany, Democracy in the
> US, etc. etc. In other words, the claim could be about the
> organisation that the bureaucracy is. But, of course, it is not: no
> one means that only `the Indian bureaucracy is corrupt', when they
> say that India is corrupt. Besides, no one has done a comparative
> research. So, we have no clue about what 17 through 19 say or do
not
> say. Our dispute on this board, consequently, cannot be about any
of
> the above sentences.
>
> Suppose we add government to this list. Consider the following:
>
> 20 The Indian bureaucracy and the Indian government are corrupt.
> 21 The existence of corrupt organisations makes a culture or a
nation
> corrupt.
> 22 If the society feeds corruption, such a society is corrupt.
>
> Now, I have a feeling we are getting somewhere in the process of
> making sense of the statement that India is a corrupt country. But,
> let us take small steps here. Regarding (21) and (22) the following
> could be said: the existence of organised crime in all societies
> would make all societies corrupt. But no one says that America is a
> corrupt nation because the organised crime exists and grows in
> America. So, let us leave aside these two sentences for the time
> being and focus on (20).
>
> 23 The present incumbents in bureaucracy and government are
corrupt.
>
> This is not what is meant when one says that India is a corrupt
> country or that corruption is eating into the innards of the
country.
> What one means is something stronger, more like,
>
> 24 The Indian *regime* is corrupt: not merely the present
incumbents
> but the Indian *system* of bureaucracy and politics.
>
> But (24) does not imply that the rule of law and democracy are
> corrupt. These institutions are not corrupt.
>
> 25 The *way* the Indians *use* these modern institutions is
corrupt.
> Or, The Indian way is corrupt.
>
> What is this Indian way? Some kinds of examples.
>
> 26 Such is the nature of corruption in India that anyone who has to
> do business in India is forced to play the same game.
> 27 One cannot do business in India without paying bribes.
>
> In other words, such is the *Indian way* that even those who want
to
> play fair and square are *forced* into playing the game of
> corruption. These business people themselves get corrupted because,
> much like the building contractor, they are forced to pay bribes in
> order to stay alive.
>
> 28 This means, that such is the pattern of interactions within the
> Indian society that anyone who wants to interact with them is
forced
> to become corrupt himself. Or, pithily formulated,
> 29 One is taught to relate in a corrupt way to other people.
>
> Both (29) and (30) imply the following:
>
> 30 One is not only corrupt; one corrupts the other as well. That
> is, `their' (i.e. the Indian) way of interacting breeds corruption.
>
> From this, it is a child's play (almost) to go to the following
> conclusions:
>
> 31 Corruption continues to grow in India because more and more
people
> are taught to become corrupt.
> 32 That is, more of more aspects of cultural life come under the
> scope of corruption.
> 33 The process of learning to be corrupt is part of the Indian
> culture and society.
> 34 A society or a culture teaches its members some ways of
> interacting with each other. If these ways are themselves corrupt,
> the society or nation is corrupt.
>
> In other words, the *commonsense* claims (and the scholarly
> treatises) about `corruption in India' involve the above
statements.
> This is what I think most of you are defending *without* knowing it
> (or even explicitly rejecting it). Why do I say so?
> (G) Because, now the examples of the clerk and the contractor begin
> to make sense. They are examples of the fact that India is corrupt.
> It does not mean the sentence (8) [i.e., some Indians are corrupt]
> but sentences 30 through 35. You feel that I am saying something
> else, something different from the commonsense claims you are
putting
> forward. Therefore, you keep coming with examples and arguments
that
> make no sense, have no point or purpose, *at first sight*. But they
> do make sense. If you realise that a `simple' statement like that
of
> the Transparency International has its own logic and takes you
> irresistibly towards one goal, you will also realise that your
> examples and arguments have but one purpose: to `show' that India
is
> corrupt in the sense we have just seen.
>
> (H) When immorality increases in the West, people do not say
> the `west is an immoral culture' because it *encourages*
immorality.
> They bemoan this fact and say that the `fundamental' western values
> (or Christian values) need to be revived. When immorality (say
> corruption) increases in India, people do not say the same and call
> for a revival of Indian values. No, they say that the Indian
culture
> and society are corrupt. Why? Because the values that the Indian
> society embody are not considered moral.
>
> (I) In other words, the discussions on this board illustrate the
> colonial consciousness I refer to in the article. Even when we
*want
> to*, it is not that simple to break out of this consciousness. Even
> when we talk about our own experiences in India, we remain within
the
> ambit of colonised consciousness. Because, "Colonialism", as I have
> repeated a number of times already, "is about denying the colonised
> peoples and cultures their own experiences; of making them aliens
to
> themselves; of actively preventing any description of their own
> experiences except in terms defined by the colonisers."
>
> (J) I am, of course, aware that I have sketched out but a path in
the
> above paragraphs. This is not the only path, but one I found to be
> the simplest to show the logic involved in the statement that
`India
> is corrupt'. I say your discussions suggest that you are merely
> following the logic of this statement. By saying this, I might
> alienate some of you. If that comes to pass, so be it. As I have
said
> in another post, I can only help you think, I cannot convert you.
You
> need to put in the effort and all I can provide are some tips.
>
>
> Friendly greetings
>
> Balu
> /END
------------------------jgjgj----
Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2164 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition


It is high time for some p-sec gangs to study history, rather than
ranting, following eurocentric junkies such as Romila Thaper et al.

I am not supporter of any political party, as you peeps portraying
Congress(I) as the party of Reddies.


Indian Muslims - Who are they: KS Lal.

Rgds, VR

PS: Vague questions extract vague answers.




--- In ReddyOnline@y..., "reddy_sas2000" wrote:
> Dear Members,
>
> The organisers of IDRF are the supporters of "Hindu fanatic
Nathuram
> Godsey" and they are using "Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi" for
> their 'Let India Develop Campaign'. It is shame on their part and
> they are ideologically defeated by "www.stopfundinghate.org" .
>
> Thanks for the work done by the Biju Mathew and his associates to
> make aware of this IDRF to the people of India.
>
> V V Reddy
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In ReddyOnline@y..., Venkateswara Reddy wrote:
> > Dear members,
> > Pls. check the appended email to check the hate
> > compaign against a non-profit org IDRF, by so called
> > p-secs in India, and their association with 9-11
> > lunatics.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > VR
> >
> > Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:06:55 -0500
> > From: ank@r...
> > To: ank@r...
> > Subject: Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition
> >
> > Dear friend:
> >
> > You may be aware that a virulent hate campaign has
> > been launched by lunatic fringe of Marxists based in
> > USA. It is in the form of a campaign called "The
> > Campaign to Stop Funding Hate" and is aimed at a
> > volunteer-based charity India Development & Relief
> > Fund (IDRF). This campaign seeks to mislead, deceive,
> > and/or intimidate the well-meaning Indians, inspired
> > by Swami Vivekananda and Mahatma Gandhi, who want to
> > serve the poor and underprivileged of India. The
> > campaign aims to stop fundraising of IDRF in USA and
> > the biggest casualty of this senseless campaign would
> > be those who need our support the most - the poorest
> > of the poor downtrodden of India.
> >
> > We would like you to visit the petition's website at
> >
> > http://www.letindiadevelop.org
> >
> > and sign the petition. Let your voice be heard. If we
> > fail to act at this critical juncture, the people who
> > repeatedly invoke Mahatma Gandhi's name to perpetuate
> > their hatred for anything Indian, will succeed in
> > their sinister plans.
> >
> > We urge you to act proactively and support the
> > petition.
> >
> > Jai Bharat & Jai USA!
> >
> > PS: My investigations point to a handful of
> > Paki/Muslim shenanigans who are active supporters of
> > 9/11 type Osama terrorists + the asuri Taliban as
> > being the incubators of this and similar "Hate India"
> > campaigns in USA. One of them circulated the below
> > email that throws light on their "Hate India" campaign
> > in the guise of secularism. You may kindly read it
> > too, and use your own common sense to figure out the
> > real nature of this "Hate India" and "damn India"
> > terrorist club. Almost all of Islamic charities in USA
> > funnelled funds to Osama's terror networks, and hence
> > have been shut down by US Government. The war of this
> > pro-Taliban club against IDRF is thus understandable.
> >
> > Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:10:43 -0500
> > To: secular-publicity@M...
> > From: "A. Sur"
> > Subject: campaign to stop funding hate
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > This is a call for help.
> >
> > As you might already know, some of us have been
> > working on launching the "Campaign to Stop Funding
> > Hate" in order to staunch the flow of NRI money to the
> > Sangh Parivar. A report detailing the links between
> > IDRF (an organization that collects money here
> > ostensibly for relief and charity) and the Sangh
> > Parivar was released to the press today both here and
> > in India. The text of the report is available at
> > http://www.mnet.fr/aiindex/2002/FEH (Harsh Kapoor's
> > site), http://www.sabrang.com/hnfund/sacw/index.html
> > (the Communalism Combat site),
> > http://www.outlookindia.com and on the webpage of the
> > campaign itself: http://www.stopfundinghate.org
> >
> > The response from the press has been great so far.
> > Many Indian papers and magazines have already carried
> > the story and our own Biju Mathew was on Star News TV
> > debating VHP President Vishnu Hari Dalmiya (and
> > according to early reports "made mincemeat out of
> > him").
> >
> > But this is only the beginning. We could use a LOT of
> > help. At this time, what we need you to do is to visit
> > the campaign's web-site and sign the petition that you
> > will find there. We are hoping to generate at least
> > 1,000 signatures by the end of the week. Please
> > (please, please) add your signature and forward this
> > call to as many as possible.
> >
> > Visit the campaign website
> > http://www.stopfundinghate.org or go directly to the
> > petition at
> > http://www.stopfundinghate.org/cgi-bin/WhyStopIt.pl as
> > soon as you get a chance and help us out. Many thanks.
> >
> > We will be calling on you for more as the campaign
> > progresses.
> >
> > In solidarity and struggle,
> > Ali
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> > http://mailplus.yahoo.com
------------------------jkjkklkllk---------------------------
Congress(INC) need to do more Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2030 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Congress(INC) need to do more


Why Congress(I), Why dont you cast your ballot based on individual
capabilities, rather than psuedo-secularism(kuhana laukikavadam).



--- In ReddyOnline@y..., "reddy_sas2000" wrote:
> Percentage of valid votes secured by major political parties in the
> three regions of the State in the Panchayat elections, 2001.
>
> Party/
> Region TDP Cong BJP CPI CPI(M) TRS Others
Ind.
> Cost AP 49.46 45.97 1.04 0.74 0.61 -- 0.48 1.68
> R.seema 49.50 45.33 1.63 0.57 0.68 -- 0.37
1.91
> Telenga 35.36 32.52 4.22 1.84 3.53 20.44 0.13 1.95
> AP 44.09 40.72 2.36 1.13 1.74 7.80 0.33 1.82
>
> Source: AP State Election Commission, Elections to Panchayati raj
> Bodies, 2001, Hyderabad, 2001.
--------------------------hhhhh---------------------
Hyderabad Telecom directory-Queries Message List
Reply | Forward Message #1956 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Members,
Do anybody have any contact number of Customer service of Hyderabad
Telecom District regarding current telephone number corresponding to
an old telephone number in 2001.


tia, VR
----------------------hh-------------------
Beware of Fake Shankaracharya in USA Message List
Reply | Forward Message #1834 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Item 1: Muslims sponsor fake Shankaracharya to
Conference on "Communal harmony in India" in USA

Date: Wednesday, 23rd October 2002.
From: Gopalakrishnan Subramaniam gsubrec@...
Courtesy: shakti-l@...

X-Sender: okhalidi@...
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 08:55:48 -0400
To: Abha
From: Omar Khalidi
Subject: JagadGuruShankarAcharya in Boston

Dear Abha,
The JagadGuru ShankarAcharya of Puri math is visiting
US in late October. I had emailed Trichur Venkataraman
of Sri Laxmi temple to invite him there. But I have
not heard from him nor has he returned my phone calls.
Do you know of anyone who can be approached to host
his talk on communal harmony in India. He is fiercely
opposed to VHP (Read all Hindus). Having him speak at
MIT or any other college is an alternative, but the
VHP (Read Hindus) are in the suburbs as you may know.

Let me know what you think,

Omar.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Item 2: Self-styled Sadhu calls himself Jagatguru
Shankaracharya of Govardhan Peeth of Puri and wants to
hold Conference on "Communal harmony in India" in USA

Courtesy: bhailal@...

Date: Wednesday, 23rd October 2002.

The real recognized Shankaracharya of Govardhan Peeth,
Puri is Swami Nischalananda Saraswati who is more than
60 years old and is well-respected. A young person
about 30 years old named Adhokshajananda claims to be
Shankaracharya of Govardhan Peeth, Puri and is being
supported by Muslims, and perhaps by Christians also,
in USA to be the Shankaracharya of Govardhan Peeth,
Puri. This young person of about 30 years appears to
be an adept in hitting at RSS and VHP in his public
utterances.

Regarding Adhokshajananda's claim of being Jagatguru
Shankaracharya of Puri, Hinduvoice.net has received
the following two quotations from Indian Express,
Wednesday, July 19, 2000 and The Pioneer, October 6,
2002: -

i) Orrisa Law Minister Biswabhushan Harichandan today
announced in the Assembly that the Endowment
Department has recognized Swami Neeschalananda
Saraswati as the Shankaracharya of the Puri Govardhan
Peetha and does not recognize any rival claim to the
seat. Making a statement in the House during zero
hour, the minister said there is no second
Shankaracharya of Puri.(Indian Express, Wednseday,
July 19, 2000.)

ii) The Orissa High Court also debarred
Adhokshajananda from using the title of Jagadguru
Shankarcharya of Govardhan Peetha, apart from
probibiting him from going within the radius of 1,000
meters of the (Puri) temple.
(Publication: The Pioneer, October 6, 2002.)

This fake Shankaracharya is being sponsored to become
Chairman/Chief Guest at the "Communal harmony in
India" conference at Boston in USA towards the end of
this month of October 2002. What do you say about
this Conference in USA?

For details see:

http://www.hinduvoice.net/SelfstyledSadhu25thOct02.html
----------------kkkjk----------------------
ATTN: Denigation of hindu-s by WESTERN academia and their funding f Message List
Reply | Forward Message #1567 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Dear Members,
Lots of people in these egroups with varying garbs
rant a lot saying "all religions are equal,
Christianity sees God in every form(a joke!),
East+West = Great(I am a vedic and western
astrologer)"

One guy in Vedic-astrology complains that I am
banishing Westerners. In reality, I am banishing this
so called eurocentric supremacy. Not the race. Lots of
whites are also againt "Colonization". Please
differentiate MINDSET(such as eurocentricism, which is
a epidimic among Aristotlian Education system) from
RACE(where one is born, interstingly you can see lots
of eurocentric garbage from indian origin).


The fast growing field in US academic universities is
"Dept of Religious studies", sponsored by Church, CIA
et al. These thugs publish books saying "Ramakrisna
paramahamsa and Vivekananda were homosexuals". Who is
the publisher of this Book: THE GREAT UNIVERSITY OF
CHICAGO. See the following 40 page article(see
printable version) by Sri Rajeev Malhotra of
Infininity foundation at

"RISA Lila - 1: Wendy's child Syndrome," posted at:
http://www.sulekha.com/column.asp?cid=239156


RISA = Religions IN South ASIA--An Academic body in
West.


One reader response to the above article is follows:

"Forgive me, Rajiv: I have not been able to finish
your article in its entirety...for health reasons.
Reading your well written dissection/refutation
of RISA scholar's "analysis" of Hinduism,
unfortunately also involves reading their filthy
nonsense, and I would need large doses of antiemetics
before I could get thru that. It is the epitomy of
irony that RISA scholars sought to boycott WAVES.
WAVES
and its sponsors, as well as Hindu organizations in
India and abroad ought to boycott RISA: deny them
access to source material, and boycott the products of
their pathology, which they pass off for scholarship.
American and Indian Hindus are entitled to know where
RISA's funding comes from. It is quite disgusting that
such pompous, hateful bigots find a way to earn money
and prestige via such deconstructive bigotry. Thanks
for laying their sickness bare. Judging from the
reaction on Sulekha, many people would like to know
how to help your efforts at Infinity Foundation. Could
you give us an idea of how we can help? For instance,
what kind of fundraising assistance does Infinity need
and how can the community help? Many of us would like
to see to it that the threats that you will never
being
able to get funding are proven idle ones.
Sincerely,
Satya"



PS: forward this masterpiece to those, who intersted
to seek truth.
-----------------------jjkhkhk-------------------
Who borrowed theday names Message List
Reply | Forward Message #1527 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Dear Friends,
Post-Aristotlen western minded thugs with Indian
names in these egroups talk nonsense(such as Aryans
invaded India with no scientific evidence and the day
names borrowed from greeks). We would all be the meek
sheep singing glory to Macaulay or Max Mueller thus,
sending or giving up our sisters to harems to foster
Hindu-Muslim unity and ridiculing our forefathers who
lived in the "dark ages" as told to us by Euro-centric
historians(via sacred textbooks in so called secular
schools in INDIA), and thus getting accolades and
knighthood from our British masters. What a shame!

Appended is the response to a lunatic in another
egroup regarding the day names:

Banish these lunatics with punching proofs.



From: Venkateswara Reddy
[mailto:venkateshwara_reddy@y...]
To: indiancivilization@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [IndianCivilization] Days of week



somasushnma wrote:

> We borrowed the day names from the Greco-roman
>world. Before that we only labeled days by tithis.


Is there scientific evidence for these two claims?
Were not these first proclaimed with no evidence by
18th century Europeans who knew zero on jyOtiSa or
hOma practices?

An unbiased examination of jyOtiSa texts, practices,
and hOma ritual practices suggests the contrary.

jyOtiSa had and still has the naming scheme for 24
hOrA-s. It is based on the "observed speeds" of
motions of the 7 visible graha-s wrt nakSatra
reference (this sequence in increasing speed is:
shani, guru, kuja, ravi, shukra, buDha, chandra).

The vAra names ASSIGNED in jyOtiSa come from this hOrA
naming scheme (first hOrA of the day is the name for
the day). It is geospecific. It can't be the
other way around, since the hOrA names are sequential
to observed speeds of the graha-s, while the vAra
names are not. If vAra names pre-date hOrA names, what
is the basis? Hence hOrA naming must have come first
in some very ancient (most likely pre-Greek,
pre-Sumer) society.

Also, one 7-day cycle is one full cycle of the hOrA
names (2x3x4x7) wrt sunrise/ sunset, etc. at any given
location. 2x3x5x7 is the similar scheme of 30
muhUrta names cycling in 7 vAra-s - all elimentary
stuff in jyOtiSa as well as in today's maths of
relative prime numbers. Thus, the hOrA (or muhUrta)
name at sunrise specifies our location wrt solar orb.
In jyOtiSa, hOrA or muhUrta is geospecific. Our
notion of "hour" or Greek "hora" is not geospecific,
so one has to be careful not to mix up.

The word "graha" means: it stands for something whose
observed shape changes cyclically - hence ravi,
chandra, kuja, buDha, guru, shukra, and shani
are graha-s - all visibly going through cycles of
phase changes - ritually represented in hOma-s by
cups that get filled and emptied. But such cups
(drONa-s) are not graha-s - they are symbolic.

Note: "planet" is not translation for the word
"graha". Does any Vedic text have a
word that speficically means "planet", i.e., that goes
around Sun or any star? Any specific word for "moon",
i.e., that goes around any planet?

Connection between hOrA and ahOrAtra as per jyOtiSa:

It is in the word a-hOrA-tra itself; "a" is the
beginning, "tra" is the end in shabda or varNamAlA;
"atra" means here, i.e., back to the starting point.
ahOrAtra is the beginning-to-ending linking process, a
cycle, with hOrA between "a" and
"tra". This is so explained by sage Parashara in his
works. Most village jyOtiSa-s know this in
jyOtiSa 101 lesson.

How does this compare with the Greeco-Roman notion of
"hora" or hour?

Why was the ahOrAtra divided into 24 divisions in
jyOtiSa? Why was the day-night cycle divided into 24
divisions in the Greeco-Roman world?

How and on what basis were the 24 hora-s named by the
Greeks if they ever did? Is there any Greek text or
ritual that throws light on this?

Correct and scientific answers to these questions may
reveal as to where the vAra idea originally developed,
and I am sure most of us can figure the truth
out. Rest may be baseless claims and rival doctrines
fooling the unscientific masses as in the past.

VR
-------------------------jk-
Dear Friends,
A must read article to digest the mindset of psec-s,
angrez-wannabe-s et al.

Regards,
VR


Rajiv Malhotra wrote:

> Please see my latest essay, titled "The Axis of
> neocolonialism," posted on Sulekha at:
>
> http://www.sulekha.com/column.asp?cid=218625
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Rajiv Malhotra
---------------jkjk-
“Save your country from criminal politicians” Message List
Reply | Forward Message #1031 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: “Save your country from criminal politicians”

Namasthe Vasundara,
Vote for Reddy's despite corruption and Crimes, et al, as per some
friends' opinion in This News Group. Is "being reddy" sufficient to
support?. Yes, "We should" is the answer from post-Aristotle minds

I dont advise any such necessary/sufficient conditions.


Regards,
VR

> Dear friends,
> You are requested to study the enclosed letter from loksatta,
> Do kindly send messages to the Chief Election Commissioner of India
> at jmlyngdoh@e... in support of the Supreme Court judgment of
> 2nd May 2002, seeking its full and effective implementation and
full
> disclosure to the public.
> "Save your country from
criminal
> politicians"
> Warm regards
> D.D. Vasundhara Reddy.
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -----------------------------------------------------------
> Dear friends,
> The efforts of Lok Satta and its colleagues to cleanse India polity
> of criminal elements has received a big boost with the Supreme
Court
> Judgement of May 2nd, directing the Election Commission of India to
> ask candidates contesting parliamentary or assembly elections to
> compulsorily furnish details of their criminal antecedents, if any,
> to allow voters to think before they make their choice. The court
> said candidates would have to give details on five counts:
>
> 1.. Whether the candidate has been convicted or acquitted or
> discharged of any criminal offence in the past. If convicted,
whether
> he or she was punished with imprisonment or fine;
> 2.. Whether the candidate was accused, anytime within six months
> prior to filing his nomination, in any pending case of any offence
> punishable with imprisonment for two years or more, and in which
> charges were framed or cognizance was taken by a court of law, and
if
> so, details thereof;
> 3.. The assets (immovable, movable, bank balances, etc) of a
> candidate and of his/her spouse and that of his/her dependents;
> 4.. Liabilities, if any, particularly whether there are any dues
to
> any public financial institution or government body.
> 5.. The candidate's educational qualifications.
> The bench passed the order while disposing of an appeal filed by
the
> Centre challenging the sweeping directions given by the Delhi high
> court on a petition filed by the Association for Democratic Reforms
> (ADR).
>
> This issue has arisen largely as a result of Lok Satta's Election
> Watch movement and screening of candidates for criminal antecedents
> in the 1999 Lok Sabha and legislative Assembly elections. A list of
> 45 candidates with criminal record was released by Lok Satta, and
it
> evoked tremendous response all over the country. In AP, over the
past
> three years, overt criminalization of politics has come down to
some
> extent due to the public pressure generated by Lok Satta's
campaign.
>
> ADR filed a writ petition in Delhi Court seeking such a directive
to
> the EC. This petition extensively cited Lok Satta's efforts in 98,
99
> and 2000 elections. The Delhi High Court ruled in favor of the
> petitioners, upon which the union government appealed to the
supreme
> court citing intrusion of privacy! The congress party was co-
> petitioner in this appeal. Both the union government and congress
> party agreed against such disclosure of candidates' record!
>
> Lok Satta and colleagues in ADR are now taking up this issue with
the
> Election Commission to ensure effective implementation of the
Supreme
> Court Judgement, and full disclosure of criminal antecedents,
assets
> and liabilities and educational qualifications.
>
> We need active involvement of all concerned citizens in support of
> this cause. Do kindly send messages to the Chief Election
> Commissioner of India at jmlyngdoh@e... in support of the
> Supreme Court judgement, seeking its full and effective
> implementation and full disclosure to the public.
> Jayaprakash Narayan
> Natioanl Coordinator
>
> Lok Satta
> 401/408, Nirmal Towers
> Dwarakapuri Colony, Punjagutta
> Hyderabad - 500 082
> Tel:91-040-3350778/3350790
> Fax: 91-040-3350783
> E-mail: loksatta@s...
> url: www.loksatta.org
---------------------kkllkkjkkj-------------------
FW: reality about USA jobs Message List
Reply | Forward Message #991 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: FW: reality about USA jobs

> IT/Software is down and out in USA. Unless you are a
> CS/Information System grad, you can never hope to "even compete in
> applying" for a software job. Your resume will simply not be
> accepted. I attended the career fairs here and the software
> situation is bleak.

Career fairs are utterly bogus. These companies usually come to these
shows to say that they are STILL alive. I went with a friend, who was
a grad of Stanford in Late 80's and currently a executive headhunter
to a career fair to see the companies' hiring situation. Most of the
hiring manangers, whom he know told him directly that, they dont have
budget to allocate. They just came to the show to show off.

These Government funded organization sucks for non-US citizens, esp
non-white. This is my experience with Stanford research centre, Menlo
Park in May 2001, where the beurocrats are republican and the HR
manager is rather key person to intiate the process, even though,
Senior VP, Director to push your resume through. This is the reason,
the most of the people go for INCs, LLPs, LLCs.

> Just yesterday one of my seniors from IIT was
> given the pink slip. There is a glut in the software/systems
> market now. There are more professionals than jobs. And no new
> radical technology is foreseen for the next few months at least

Innovation does not matter in this post-Aristotle Westernized(not
WEST) world. The key lies in the profits, scandals, aggressive
accounting practices, Stock Options, reciprocal transactions, IPO-s.
Even most of the Venture Capital firms are cutting off the resources
et al.

Warren Buffet is good at simplising the complex matter: Here he goes
again regarding Options:
- If options are not a form of compensation. What are they?
- If Compensation is not expense, What is It?
- And what if expenses should not go into the calculations of earnings
where in the world should they go?

Losers: Engineers/ Middle Class families, who lost their money in
20th century gambling aka Stocks

Winners: Insiders/Executives/Directors/Venture Capital firms


> which can shore up demand for workers (I am saying that there is
> nothing radically new like Java, etc which can generate
> demand requiring a new skill set)

Right. It is right time for INDIANs to start 711-s, Stop n Save, Gas
stations, et al, which are economically healthy in THE long run.

> Next, because of the recent terrorist attacks, there is a marked
> animosity towards foreigners in general. Employers are reluctant
> to recruit or even take foreigners for practical training. For
> example, I met the recruiters of Booz-Allen and Hamilton and IBM
> today and they confessed that they would double check before
> recruiting international students (because you are not an American)

Well, I have seen White Stanford Grad-s, who spent almost 4 years for
BS degree in CS are out of Job. I already pointed out one of such
case in this list.

> Quite a few of my friends from Texas, Austin and other places are
> contemplating returning home to India because of the job crunch.

Sardarji-s, Patel-s are winners, eh? :)


> The situation in traditional engineering is also no good. Nobody
> respects just a Masters anymore (Note: I have talked in detail
> about this to many people all over USA here and these are NOT just
> my observations) unless you are a PhD (doesn't matter which univ,
> you just need a doctorate) technical jobs will be hard to come by.

Generally, This is hard time for most of the new immigrants of
Internet era. Still, you are a looser, having IT job in a reputed
company. Why?. Answer is real estate, you will end up by paying
mortagages through out your life, if you like to own a house.

> If you have a PhD, employers would take you but then getting a PhD
> in life is a BIG decision and a commitment for minimum four years

Bag and stones story perfectly fit into the westernised secular
education system, aka post-Aristotle formal system of duality.

> (I have seen guys literally cursing their PhD advisors here.) Take

Cursing is TRANSITIVE, Thus they are facing.

> my word. Doing a PhD changes you as a person. Also, since a PhD is
> a long time frame, lots of changes in economy will take place by

Atleast, non-tenure track position at some State University with 80K
per annum, if the branch holds reputation by that time.


> then. Nobody can predict what can happen a year down the line.
>
> But it seems clear that WORK IS MOVING OUT OF USA, especially in
> software where they are outsourcing all the work to developing
> countries.

Not only software, But the manufacturing industries in Mexico are
moving outta mexico due to *comparatively* cheap labour in China.

Where do these people in US gonna Head?
- Either hi-techised job or some service sector job aka McDonalds,
711, Stop n save, sales person in some dept stores. This is the
production of Avidya(in-sincereity) aka secular westernised system.

> Not only that. Any cheap goods which you come across in USA, from
> scissors to watches to shoes to microwave etc., every such item is
> manufactured in china. You will see Made in China labels in almost
> all common products. I went to buy a pillow in the supermarket. It
> said "Made in India; Packaged proudly in New Jersey, USA" I felt
> like banging my head in desperation.

These companies are running by greedy corporate American people for
sake of their own profits, rather than looking economic health of
America. Hence the recession. For example, HP Vs. Hewlett, Deutshe
Bank conflicts of interset, and most of the firms on Wall street, who
are experts in this "so-called" gambling.

Outsourcing might be good in the Short Term, but kills the BUYING
power of an average American consumer, who is the key for this
ECONOMY. This cyclical effect may felt in the long run.

> market condition. What I say is that you should get a job because
> you are well qualified and you will be an asset to the company in
> the long term, not because the company has a need for skills in
> the short term and they want to fill it up as soon as possible.

Thats why one has to rob these companies in the short run in terms of
contracting labour to have good economic health in the long run for
an individual. This is not possible for Most of the h1-b workers. And
these spinless indian brethern in West, who started consulting firms
made filthy money outta selling the flesh of their brethern.

> tough, as it has happened now. The software industry is a prime
> example. Note the difference between the words "knowledge" and
> "skill". Knowing 'fracture analysis' is knowledge but being
> conversant with Database Administration in SQL is just a
> skill.

This is the mere product of the system.

> Most Indian students in USA live a desperate life (new
> comers to USA will contest this statement of mine, but leave them
> aside; they are yet to gain experience!)

Another sorry subject.

> There are two categories of IITians in USA.
>
> 1) The "Muggu" kind, who is intent on doing his PhD and research,
> cares a damn about jobs and is finally looking at a teaching
> position in a university. He is introvert and keeps to himself

I would rather pity at these souls, who are slaves in the spinless
system.

> 2) The second one is the freaku kind, who does just enough work
> to please his guide, is actively looking around for a job (and
> does not get any in this present situation) Having squandered his
> paycheck in buying a car and travel trips within USA, this is a
> 'panchi' who realizes that he is sticking to his univ because he
> does not have any choice in life.

What is the goal? Is it to stay and live in US?. Ways are many( I
usually call Wise-Ramani ), if so.


> The future promises to be VERY difficult, at least for the next one
> full year. Despite all talk of economic recovery, the stock market
> is going down everyday.

On other day, I saw the Verisign(VRSN) shrinkage on the street, which
lost almost $2 billion market cap in a single day. But these bitchy
indian asses in this company security software division are quite
racists about south/northism.


> Even if the recovery starts tomorrow, it
> will be many months before the situation is felt in the recruiting
> process.

cf: UCLA Anderson school of mgmt recent report: The gist of this
report goes like this

IT is Profit Killer.

> With war seemingly imminent in the near future, all money
> is being channelised into war efforts. This country has surely
> gone into recession, a period of negative economic growth.

And recent GDP growth 5.8% is due to the adjustment of inventories,
cf: recall the dictum, minimising losses. This is not going to lead a
long run rally.

> Also, the student community has been invaded by Chinese. We
> Indians have built up a bad reputation for NOT doing our PhDs
> in spite of promising the professors that we would when we join.

Good Point!

> But the Chinese work hard and a majority of them go on to complete
> their PhDs even if it takes 5 or more years. I was talking to a
> Chinese who did his PhD for 6 long years and then joined here as a
> post-doc.

Chinese are good at helping fellow chinese brethern in General real
life. But the Indians are good at ditching fellow indian brethern at
work place.

> Most Indians don't have that kind of commitment to research.
> In short, all that I am trying to say is this.
> Take a deep look at your life. Ask yourself whether you really
> want to spend the next 2 to 5 years of your life in an university
> with little or no freedom (I will write in detail about this
> freedom aspect later)

Thats why Prof. Moshe Vardi of CSD,Rice Univ, Houston conducts a
class on Ethics in Research.


> Ask yourself whether you want to do an
> MS/PhD because you are interested in research or because you want
> to come to USA ? And then decide whether to app and come to
> USA. Mind you, life in USA sucks. Contrary to what people would say
> from here, take my word. It sucks big-time.

It sucks Great time.


>
> Material comforts in life don't make one happy. I would
> infinitely prefer having coffee any day with Mipa, Somesh, DC and
> all of you sitting in school coffee shop rather than sipping
> star bucks here with shallow surface talk with highly
> individualistic guys here.

Laters, Guys
-----------------------kljkljkljkljkl----------------------------------------
Fwd: Life Message List
Reply | Forward Message #943 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Fwd: Life

> topic? Just because an Indian woman questions some
> actions of the Gods does not mean she is a
> non-believer. Having said that, let me add that most
> of our male Gods were more than disrespectful to their
> women folk, and ALL of our female Gods were cent
> percent Pativrathas.

Pathivratha, Pathinivratha-s are out of context in this
modern culture, as asribed by fellow indian educated
brethern, who are bankrupt in understanding the meaning
of Samskr`ti(culture).

We have people going in for half baked quickies. This
is beacuse of this westernised secural education system
in India, tries to mint this unending stream of faceless
computer programmers and shamans(doctors)

Generally, males are malefic(kroora is the right word)
than females.Here are few questions to ponder:

-Why do boys stay for longer periods in their mothers
womb?

-Why is there a natural tendency for abortion higher
in the case of pregnancies with male child instead
of female?

-Why are boys said to belong to the same gotra whereas
that of the female is said to change after marriage?
Is this just patriarchal system or is there some
natural basis to this?

Besides this, Max Muller and his peers' distortions
of "purusha" as "Man" male chauvinism and reading all
sorts of nonexistent human history and male chauvinism in
the samhita mantra-s! in Veda samhita Mantra. Our englih
educated indian brethern go with these chewed rubbish.

WHat is the meaning of Purusha in Shruti-s, Veda-s,
Shaastra-s, PuraaNa-s:
----

80% of current Samskr`ta words are in the Veda-s, and
Veda-s go to lot of extent using every word to describe
That One Indescribable permeating everything indivisibly
and completely. However, all secondary or tertiary or later
causes are not directly from That but from physical laws
that were set in motion during creation.

Veda-s use several words to denote That Indescribable who
permeated the creation after He Himself created it: "purusha"
appears in several places (it means one who resides in the
construct "puraa" ). Thus, Purusha, nothing but cosmic being.

"Kaala Purusha" in hora shastra, "Vaastu Purusha" in Vaastu
(oops, not Gowru of Proddutur), "Veda Purusha" in Veda-s,all
these are from shaastra-s, not from Veda itself. Our
shaastrakaara-s coined then to convey certain aspects.

Best Wishes,
Venkateswra Reddy

PS: I may take months to respond to the messages in this group.
Please bear with me. Some responses may take years, because of
result-driven approach to prove something.
-----------------------klklkl-------------------------------------
needs help for PDF in US Message List
Reply | Forward Message #881 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: needs help for PDF in US

It is better to contact virtually somebody, who is
working in the area of her interests with credentials(
publications, patents, cornering somebody at so-so
conferences, interest groups, news groups, like USENET.)
Most of the teaching universities, like XYZ state University
at domingo are worthless in this regard. Post docto-ral
fellowships would rather easy, if she is already
in US of A. Funding and politics is another dimension
of this subject. Recently I saw on headlines of Sunday
News of London about Admissions and Money. This is common
practice in most elite universities in US of A.

few thoughts about Ph. D
------------------------

- Today's research is dominated by discipline and hard work
than brilliance.
-One who wants to search for genuine gems on an ocean
beach is frowned by today's academic system and one
who patiently gathers 10 stones in a bag for five years
is rewarded with a PhD degree.
-If you search for a gem, you may or may not find one.
If you start to systematically gather stones, you are
guaranteed to succeed. Today's system seems to favor
the latter.

Of course, some people are happy with this and some even
achive great heights with this system.

After PhD and several years in pursuit of funding, tenure-
track positions is kinda embarassing for some people.

There was a big fight among researchers in Foundations of
Computing funding by NSF in late 1990s between Dr Alfred
Aho, the famous author of Algorithms, Compilers et al b/w
Prof Oded Goldreich of Weizmann Inst of Science and Complexity
Theory Group, LCS, MIT & Prof Avi Wigderson of Institute
of Advanced Study, Princeton, NJ and Hebrew University
of Jerusalem, Israel about the need to transport theoretical
ideas to working practical systems. I would rather support
Prof Oded and Wigderson LLP in this conext, because I dont
care for your damn transporting theory to practice.

Let me quote Prof Oded's remarks in this context.

"Firstly, I wish to state my belief that such transportation, while
being of significant intellectual challenge and bearing great
benefits to both practice and theory, is not an intrinsic part of
theory (but is rather an interdisciplinary activity). Furthermore,
the benefit of (successful) transportation is of intrinsic value to
practice, as it improves the performance of the systems constructed.
However, the benefit to theory of a (successful) transportation is
only secondary; that is, it provides additional (and concrete)
motivation for practioners to be interested in the well-being of
theory. (I've ignored above the case in which the transportation
effort results in theoretical insights. This is a by-product of
transportation not its reason d'etre.)"


namo namaH
Venkateswara Reddy A

PS: Sorry for bothering again.





> hi
> can anyone help me. my sis is having PH.d in
> sericulture.she is planning to USA for PDF.
> we cant get pdfs easily without reference from
> someone who is already on pdfs.
> bye
> aum
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
---------------------------------------klklkl-----------------------
Any good matrimonial sites for Reddy's????? Message List
Reply | Forward Message #877 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Any good matrimonial sites for Reddy's?????

How do we distinguish Matrimonials from Mail Order Bride[grooms],
rather Matrimonials = indianized mail order bride[grooms]?



namo namaH,
Venkateswara Reddy A




--- In ReddyOnline@y..., rajasekhar reddy wrote:
> www.vanajarao.com
> www.indo-us.com
> www.telugumatrimony.com
> www.kaakateeya.com
> are some of the sites i know ....
>
>
>
> --- webindian wrote:
> > Hello
> >
> > There are no good matrimonial websites for Reddys..
> > I am working on www.reddyonline.com. ReddyOnline.com
> > will consists of
> > Matrimonial section..it may 2-3 months for
> > ReddyOnline to be up and
> > and running. Meanwhile there is a Reddy matrimonial
> > Database
> > available in
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ReddyOnline
> >
> > Click on Database Link in left side navigation and
> > add ur profile in
> > Matrimonial database.
> >
> > Apart from that there is a website wheere u can add
> > ur profile
> >
> > http://www.telugumatrimony.com
> >
> > Do let me know if u have any questions..
> >
> > Thanks
> > Raj Reddy
> > Moderator: ReddyOnline
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In ReddyOnline@y..., "ram0reddy"
> > wrote:
> > > Any good matrimonial sites for Reddy's?????
> > > Thanks
> > > Ram Reddy
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax
> http://taxes.yahoo.com/
------------------------------------------------klkkl—
Dear Reddys Message List
Reply | Forward Message #876 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Dear Reddys

> I agree with u, That was an excellant practical message, as this
> group was supposed to be discussing about the welfare of "REDDYS"

Output(nirgama) driven approach is rather important. Tons of email
exchanges without a cent of result is unworthy. This is happening in
most of the indian forums on USENET for countless years.

> instead of spirtual or impractical remidies to the

I never ever solicited anybody to have some remedy for 'em.

> I would like to suggest eveybody to be part of AP politics one way


MLA Seat = Re 30 Lacks
MP = Re 1 Crore along with courting commanders of AICC, PCC to have
their name on the list.
The low cader leaders are fucked up and become financially ill.


> the other, for example small deeds like voting/convincing your
> friends to vote for REDDYS/financial/emotional support/ etc

Visit some districts like Kurnool, Cuddapah, part of Anantapur, where
you can notice the contestants are reddys.

Reddi, Reddy, Reddiee... There are only two castes, viz HAVEs and
HAVENOTs. Do coolies from Reddy community bother about their caste?

What is Caste/Kulam, Varnam, shaakha/Gumpu, Gothram, Gothraja?
One got to understand the inner meaning of these stuff, before
entering into full-pledged discussion.

> but talking in terms of venkateshwar reddy, do your "karma" and
>leave everything to god! (applying sprituality to welfare of REDDY
> community hehe.. :)

I guess, you inched into fatalistic theory of Karma, aka Theory of
Pre-determination. I never solicited that.

Most of the peeps just heard of this silly word "Karma" with laxity.


Karma, Karmaa, KarmaH- What the heck is this
--------------------------------------------

I am posting few snipped parts of PandiTa sanjay in this regard,
along with my lines.

- After death, a person carries with him the dharma and the Karma
which can be divided into two broad parts called Sanchita Karma and
Prarabdha Karma. Sanchita Karma is finished in various types of hells
and suffering in the life after death whereas Prarabdha Karma has to
be carried into another body and can be burnt only through
experience. So, only the most elevated souls who have complete
control over their Indriya's (sense's) are not affected by these
experiences in this life. All others are.



Dr`dhadr`dha thkriyaapthathvacChuBhashuBhaphalam dvidhaH |
manohvakkarmajam taccha thrividham tathbhidochyante || 101 ||

The above verse is extracted from Prasna Marga by Acharya
Harihara.

Purport: The good and bad effects are the resultant of two
kinds of karma- Dr`dha and Adr`dha. These can be sub divided
into three types, viz mental, physical and verbal.

Man suffers from misfortunes in the shape of loss of wealth,
humiliation, loss name, death of kith and kin et al in count-
less ways., as a result of evil Karma done in his past and
present. This Karma is either dr`dha- intentional and deliberate
, or adr`dha- accidental or unintentional. In either case,
the consequence is felt. Whether dr`dha or adr`dha, the Karma
can again be divided into three categories--Kayaka, arising from
bodily actions such as causing physical injury, et al., manasika-
arising from mental actions and wishing others evil, and vachaka- or
due to verbal actions- indulging in abusing and filthy lingo

Karma is not fatalistic. One have got to exercise FREE WILL, esp
in Karma Kshetra, which is controlled by us. But the distribution
of such free will is known by only HIM. How to decipher these things
in ones life is another subject.

Like every other birth, the Atma rides (Arudha) this Mana (Mind-Moon)
which controls this Sareera (Body). The Atma remebers all it's past
incarnations but the Mana, being new and aware of this incarnation
alone cannot understand the reason behind the various forms of
suffering that it sees and experiences. It expresses anger when a
feeling that injustice has been done (based on its awareness and
concept of justice) and later this passion results in sorrow as the
atma does not cooperate with the Mana being aware that the Prarabdha
Karma is being burnt through this anubhava (experience)e.g :marriage

Hence Harihara (Prasna Marga) prays
Madhyatavyadhipam Dugdhasindhukanyadhwam Dhiya Dhiyayami sadhwaham
Buddhe Suddhyai Vriddhyai cha Siddhye || 1 ||

Translation: I offer my sincere prayers to God Vishnu so that my mind
may become enlightened, extensive and perfect

Purport:
Action itself is bounded by various inputs and this is called bounded
rationality depending on four factors that are like four boundaries
of a plot - Information (Knowledge) called BUDDHI [Dharma-Ayana],
Resources that are focused on VRIDDHI or increase of wealth [Artha-
Ayana], Abilities that fulfil desires based on (the purity of) the
purpose SUDDHI [Kaama -Ayana] and finally Time that is the final
giver of emancipation and end of all Karma whether Sanchita or
Prarabdha called SIDDHI [Moksha-Ayana]. This adhikara or right to
freedom of Action is the only birth right given by God.

Beyond the galactic cycles (galaxies in a galaxy cluster
spinning around the center of the cluster), modern cosmology
has no clue. Does the universe(Brahmaanda) itself spin? If so,
what direction is the spin axis? Where is the center of the
universe? Vedic cosmolgy addresses and throws light on all
these issues. For example, one unversal spin (one spin of
brahmaanda) was called as a 'parivatsara'. Ch. 1 of
Manusmr`ti is distilled from such Vedic revelations.

But the entire Hindu world is sold on the PuraaNa-s, and this
is a big problem. PuraaNa-s are not scientific treatises but
were/are meant to propagate universal, historical and spiritual
facts to themasses - like today's science fiction. Somethings
in them are true, some are exaggerations and sugar coatings designed
for specific purpose of expanding the reach of the Vedic
teachings to people of every mental makeup. While shaastra-s
can only be commented on by those who school and pass in
them - like a Ph.D. in Special Relativity can teach it but
not a high school dropout! For him science fiction is the
easy way to appreciate Special Relativity but rarely he will
be taken as its authoritative spokesman.

Shoodrah: Distortion
--------------------
Manusmr`ti says BraahmaNas are "born" from
Brahma's head, etc. but shruti does not say so. Shruti (in
Purushasooktam) says: From (His) feet are born shudra-s.
Before this shruti also says everything, the whole universe
was born from His feet. So, the two tegether means: all are
born shudra-s. Then by support "thighs", a vaishya is
"made"; from work of "power shoulders", a king is "made"
(kr`tah is the word used); one who "sits" (aaseet is the
verb used) on His face (becomes) BraahmaNa. So, the real
imoprt of shruti (all born are shudra-s, by support, work or
wisdom the born becomes one of the varna-s) got distorted in
the shaastra. This was beginning of humanities' downfall,
Satyayuga had ended by then!

Manusmr`ti says if anything in the shaastra contradicts shruti,
shruti is the final answer.


Due to pedagogy and various paatakrama rules, Veda mantra-s have
remained the same. It is impossible to distort their words.
That was the genius of the Rishi-s. Westerners opine our
sages did not know writing, so they resorted to memory,
therefore it is called 'shruti', etc. all big rubbish.
Person-to-person teaching and carrying down by memory is the
best failsafe gaurd against mutilations. Writing alone would
have distorted and wiped out the Veda-s long time ago,
certainly the British burnt every ancient book they got hold
of that went against their biblical theories. But the Veda-s
were inside the head of countless pandita-s they could not
wipe out, so they tried the next best by distorting
Samskr`ta word and Veda mantra meanings. Anyway, it is
another sorry subject. e.g a new Samskritha
dictionary "Vaachaspathyam", with careful distortions of
many Vedic words, was compiled to trash "Amara Kosha", debase
Vedas and smrithigranthas, and uproot Hinduism.


iti parisamaptham,

namo namaH,
Venkateswara Reddy.
PS: Sorry for my bothering again.
---------------------kjkjjk--------------
Fwd: Life Message List
Reply | Forward Message #764 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Fwd: Life

> question, if you really bear no hatred towards the
> enemy what's the point in picking up a fight with him?
> logic, logic.....


Yatha karyeshu samagri' drishta'drishtobhayathmika'

Meaning: Generally, we can find two reasons for everything.
One that can be perceived by our senses(drishta) and another
that cannot be gauged by our senses(Adrista. Punya(virtue)
and papa(vice) come under adrishta. This is the basis of the
Karma Theory. Let us recall Kurt Godel's Incompleteness Theorem,
in other words, A finite system cannot comprehend the infinite
truth.

Most of the Macaulay minds call it as Luck/unluck.. Our mental
slavery to ape the post-Macaulay West and denounce our own
ancestors in the name of secularism is but the gift of the British
rule/education. We are stupid enough to label this mental make-up
as a sign of India's ancient catholicity.


I think, most of this group members are into Information Tech
-nology. Probably, most of us are aware of algorithms.

Algorithm = Turing machine = boolean Matrix = Boolean Circuit
= Made up with some electronic devices = Silicon= sand, OOPS.

Everything came from Nothing - Qabalah, The Jewish Doctrine.
Everything made up with Pancha Bhuta's

We can realize the truth, if we go beyond just writing software,
maintaining, debugging, by digging into "Computability and
Undecidabilty. Atleast, we should be strong in AVIDYA/mundane
sciences.

We will get to know the truth, if we dig into the
foundations of axiomatic systems.

It is pretty easy to see the specialization from Generalized
(Deduction, one of the proof technique). It is rather hard to
see the other side aka Specialized case to Generalization aka
Induction cf: Mathematical Induction- I.S. Sominsky, Mir Publi
-shers, Moscow, Translated by Prof L. Nagamuni Reddy, Another
Reddy Ouch!.

In reality, these Macaulay minds constitute the loony fringe who
greedily bargained with the British for political power (the
communists even supported the British) "and institutionalised
communalism, casteism, classism, and regionalism to retain power";
the majority of Indians, however, see themselves as part of our very
ancient and inspiring culture.

We simply have to recollect the many vanished cultures and the only
surving culture of ours to prove this point. Codes for such healthy
lifestyles were revealed by scores of our ancient Rishis and passed
on to us in the form of Veda and Upanishads. King Rama of Ayodhya
personified this lifestyle to the fullest -- from individual to
nation. Hence, Sri Rama always represents an important ideal to us
and our nation. Mahatma Gandhiji sought nothing but Rama Rajya.

In reality, these Macaulay minds constitute the loony fringe who
greedily bargained with the British for political power (the
communists even supported the British) "and institutionalised
communalism, casteism, classism, and regionalism to retain power";
the majority of Indians, however, see themselves as part of our very
ancient and inspiring culture.

MacCaulayism:
-------------
"Krishna, one of the manifestations of God, has, in that book,
branded women as offsprings of sin (paap-yoni) (Geeta : 9 : 32)" -
This is a typical example of how MacCaulay slaves without knowing any
trace of Geeta pronounce its meaning to suit their grand design of
trashing Hinduism. The full shloka is as follows:

Maam hi paartha vyapaashrithya
Yeapi syuhu paapayonayaha
Sthreeyo vaishyaasthathha shoodraastheapi
Yaanthi paraam gatim | 9-32

Its meaning is:
Because, O! Arjuna! Women, vaishyas, and shudras as well as those
born as a result of paapa even later attain moksha by surrendering to
Me.

Where is this damnation by Shri Krishna of women in this shloka? All
these disgusting MacCaulay slaves know that they can write any trash
about Hinduism in English press and present to the equally uneducated
English Hindus as some grand scholarly work. (AVIDYA, I dont care for
stanford, Yale, MIT Harvard, IIT, IISc etal thrash credentials; these
degrees are good, probably better for paycheck)

These MacCaulay-putras bastards also hide the fact that several
sentences of these "non-scriptures" were erased and distortions were
re-written by their mentors and hired(Impact of THE money) Hindu
slaves in Asiatic Society of Bengal and Asiatic Society of London
during the 18th century. Even a new Samskritha
dictionary "Vaachaspathyam", with careful distortions of many Vedic
words, was compiled to trash "Amara Kosha", debase Vedas and
smrithigranthas, and uproot Hinduism. Apte is continuing this holy
job now.

Those, who are supporting Mullers, MacCauleys et al got to widen
their dristi.

Sorry for bothering again. And Let me know, if anybody does not like
my invasion into their virtual boxes. Thus, I will stop writing on
every other day, rather I would post once in a week.

Good Luck,

Venkateshwara Reddy
--------------------jlkjlkjk--------------------------------
Fwd: Life Message List
Reply | Forward Message #758 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Fwd: Life



> Although, I do have one question, did Sree Rama really
> not have any ill-will towards Ravana? If he really did
> not, then what kind of a husband was he?

-Dharma
-We dont have enemies by birth. Enemity is nothing but Arudha( In
other words, perception).
- Ravana treated God as Enemy. Thus Rama was enemy of Ravana. This
is explained in Gita.
- dharmasamsthaapanaarthaaya
- Probably we are confused about Ahimsa and Shanti(pacifism)

Ahimsa in no way means pacifism such as, for example, that preached
by Bertrand Russell. The real meaning of the Sanskrit word is: na
himsa. It is one of the ten attributes of dharma and it stands for having
a mighty strength to self-preserve and an ever-vigilant self-defence to
thwart any aggression -- be it in the case of an individual, family,
community, nation, or even the entire mankind. Therein lies the very
fundamentals of the unbroken Bharateeya civilisation and its secret of
long survival.

Of course, our "saviour" British masters and their Christian missionaries,
Macaulays and Mullers, further taught us, "the barbaric, paganic
natives", this perverted version of ahimsa as the real Buddhist teaching,
only to further reduce the nation to servitude and impotence. We, the
intelligentsia, are still in this deep coma of ignorance about Bharat's
greatest son.


Anyway, I dont wanna flood your mailboxes with this kinda "crap", as
somebody pointed out to me earlier.


Best Regards,
VR

> Another
> question, if you really bear no hatred towards the
> enemy what's the point in picking up a fight with him?
> logic, logic.....
> Sridevi.
----------------------kjlkjl---------------------------------------------
Kiran kumar reddy...missing from world trade center Message List
Reply | Forward Message #747 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Kiran kumar reddy...missing from world trade center

Dear Deepa,
Did Your Brother graduated from GPR Engg College, Kurnool. Iirc, He
was of 94-98 civil engg dept. I know him.
Time will heal your family.


Best Regards,
VR


> hi all,
> I just want tell all of you about my dearest annayya who is missing
> from the world trade center.He was a great person....very freindly,
> jovial, outgoing and at the same time was very knd at heart.He
helped
> any one whom he thought were in need of help and was very proud to
> get a job in his dream place-"WORLD TRADE CENTER".Just want to ask
> all of you people who know him and who don't, to please pray so
that
> we can find him soon.please pray for him
> I am attaching his photograph.Take a look at it.
> Deepa
-----------------kljkllk-------------------------------------------
Kiran kumar reddy...missing from world trade center Message List
Reply | Forward Message #743 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Kiran kumar reddy...missing from world trade center

Dear Deepa:

> I am attaching his photograph.Take a look at it.

I cant find his photo?
Resend it again.

Best Regards,
VR

PS: Could you send privately, Date of Birth, Place, Time of Birth of
your brother to me.


Best Regards,
VR


> Deepa
-------------------jkl---
(no subject) Message List
Reply | Forward Message #724 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
(No subject)


> Hey buddies,
> Iam looking for some good telugu and Hindi songs. I would
>really

www.musicindiaonline.com could be the right one for you.



> appreaciate if anyone can send me a wonderful collection to
download.
>
> Gowtham
-jjhkhjkhkjhk-------------------------------------------
critics on "A brief note on the Reddy community of Andhra Pradesh" Message List
Reply | Forward Message #717 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: critics on "A brief note on the Reddy community of Andhra Pradesh"

Namsthe(Came from Namah) SRK,

> sorry

No need to say sorry dear.

> likes BJP,VHP... and thier cotorie

I already posted a huge mail about Vidya/Avidya, Brahman/ABrahman.
I am not member of any political organisation, thought
I love Karl Marx Selected works.

> and never ever subscribe to their ideology..they are only
>interested in aryavartha!

Aryavartha reminds me the old days in my village, where I saw
this in local (A)brahmin's house. It is full of Politics, though
I adore Kautilya Neeti.

Brahmin = who conquers Shad-ripu. The shatripus are kama (lust),
krodha (anger), lobha (greed), moha (illusion), mada (pride or
madness) and matsarya (envy or jealousy).


> they can do anything and to any extent to maintain
> their so called aryan supremacy!!..even that means distorting
> history..
> look what they have done to our history books!

This is due to ABrahmins. All this will die in due course of time.
See, We are remembering Rama for millions of years. How many
of IBM employees or the uses of IBM machines do know about
the founder?:)


> and the german grammer is very much similar to sanskrit
grammer...and
> many of the root words in sanskrit can be found PLENTY in german and
> european languages!

well, you are influenced by ABrahmanic People(It is very rare
to find Brahmans though). This is Kali Yuga, thats why day start
at mid night(ruled by Kali), as to why the day started in other
yugas from the sun rise in the morning(ruled by Gayathri).



> just because max is german doesnt mean he will stoop to show shim as
> vedic schoalor..its these hindu-zeolots who dont have the courage to
> accept some facts!! and through out history people moving from one
> place to another is a very common phenomenon! theres nothing to sulk
> about this!!

Dont get prejudiced against something. Open your third eye.



> and judicious in books.. but see the practical aspects of it.. how

Sage Vyasa unambiguously stated about the life in this Yuga in Virata
Parva, Maha Bhaarata

> many of US follow what valmiki has written!!? whats the ground
> reality now?? it has been like this for the centuries dear.

hehe, The reality is that you may see "Married, but looking"
advertisements on some adult sites.

> Be practical!! see life!!

I saw the life in San Francisso, which is the capital for
alt.lifestyles.*; Probably, all the educated(Avidyic) desis
will end up in this stuff on some day. The key lies in the
time. Enronised econonomy, Aggressive accounting aka fraud,
BDSM, swinging, gangbangs, et al are part of practical life:)
These things are elegantly explained in the book titled as
Economics of Sex, Love, 21st Century by Dr Pedro Alvarez
Espinoza. He enunciated a new theorm "p-centric theory",
which is perfect fit for the present day humans.

Those hoary ancient sages of India living and meditating
under trees on the banks of the Saraswati-Dr`shadvati rivers
knew something about the world around that we may find
difficult to fathom with our modern scientific and technical
gadgets and brilliance.

Ahah! None of this appears to have come from the Sumerians,
Greeks, Romans, or the Atlantis -:). All pure prestine Indic
wisdom! Homage to that great Mother(Bharaart = Bha + Arat,
Bha = Zodiac, Bharat = Her divine manifestattion) of all
civilizations!

May I be born in that first cradle of civilization again and
again, so that all my brethren reach Thee!

"Gurubhyascha Grahebhyascha mayabaddhoya manjali |
Prasanna manasaste me satyam kurvantu Bharatim" || 2 ||

"I salute my preceptors and the planets, so that
they may bless my speech with purity and truth"

...and India i.e. Bharata has but one national goal 'Satyameva Jayate'
Alas when will this happen!


Good luck guys and gals,

Happy searching for (mates, jobs et al).

Best Regards,
Venkateswara
---------------------jkhklhkjl------------------------------------------
(no subject) Message List
Reply | Forward Message #716 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: migrations

Dear Penchal( are you from Nellore?:)

Aarya (noble) or anaarya (ignoble) are adjectives and not
name of any race in Vedic and ancient smr`ti texts. For
example, Manu Samhita names many races that existed at the
time of its compilation; "aarya" RACE is not in that list.

Vedic texts mention of varNas for groups, not "aarya"
for any group or class.

That "aarya" refers to a race or tribe or substantially
large social group is the invention or due to ignorance of
18th century Euro-centric colonial thinkers, and rest is all
Indological linguistic magic and word juglary, including
reading into the present day translators(Not Author, Who
is Author?), which is a recent work. One has to compare
texts and commentaries written before and after the
application of Indological magic wand to see through
the airy liguistic construct.

Speculations aside, we do NOT know if some white-skinned
tribes marched over to India and subjugated the natives once
or even million times. Whoever did so either got wiped out
instantly or got digested in due TIME. For wholesale
invasion and subjugation, there is no evidence in ancient
Hindu texts - texts of a people who methodically kept track
of their hoary ancestry, time, and geography - a method that
far surpassed any other elsewhere in those times. PuraaNas
mention of banishing criminals beyond the western borders
instead - not once, many times over a long stretch of time.

In contrast, most post-17th century writings are just
writings and opinions with European speculative origin and
colonial agenda. Whatever is there in English is mostly
colored by this speculative origin. If any reads the 18th
century Indology foundational writings, steep ignorance,
plain cockyness, and blind superiority complex of the
writers becomes quite evident. I feel all this will DIE in
due course of time.

"Aaryan race" does not exist today, and probably never ever
existed except in some European & English imaginations. But
we do know with 100% certainty that the notion of (its)
supreme race arose in 18th century Germany. Fanatical
Germans saw themselves as the pure "aaryan race" and casted
history of other cultures in their light (like - THEIR
ancestors marched all over and conquered!), produced Adolph
Hitler and the ambition to control the world, wiped out
millions of Jews, etc. It is the same superior "race"
mentality oiled by religions of 15th-18th century Europe and
Middle East that has resulted in millions more killings of
humanity in the Americas, Africa, and Asia. It is this the
KKK in USA exists for.

West in general is still stuck in this "conquering" mindset.
It is this sole Euro-centric contribution of racism and
"conquering of outside" that troubles humanity everywhere
today more than anything else on the social scene. Whereas,
India since time immemorial has attempted to "conquer the
inside - one's own mind". The so-called "aaryan invasion or
immigration theory" is simply footnote of this European
"conquering of outside" demonics. We whites are the children
of these demons really, yet we fail to see Jupiter's light.
That Vedic astrology came from Western astrology, the origin
of our thread, is a natural confusion, I feel. The native
panDita, uneducated in English, over in India has his pity
on us, fortunately.

> http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/514732.asp

WHO got authority(Adhikaara to say)
----------------------------------

The word in the tradition itself is "adikaara". Even recent
teachers of Vedic Shastraas, such as Adi Shankara and SaayaNa,
discuss this term at length: Who has Adhikaara, who doesn't?
Who grants such a "poweful privilege"?

And the shastraas are quiet clear on this issue:
One who sincerely engages in yogic saadhanaa and really practices
the particular subject is granted "adhikaara" on the subject
in due time by his peers(NOT the Professors or Research Students
of Washington Univ @ St. Louis or any university(irrespective of
place). These guys fell in the category AVIDYA(What is Vidya and
Avidya)These degrees are good for paychecks, SUVs and villas.)

Mere readers, writers, and translators have no authority on
the subject. I feel that this social rule, common in any
field of human activity, stems from the declarations of
Taittiriya upanishad, chapter 1. Max Muller and his peers
were notable for violating this rule. Hence the current
muddle in the English west with respect to Vaidika shaastras

Alan Templeton of Washington University in St. Louis is violated
the basic principle. Sadly, he dont know the basic vedic secret
of deciphering genitical map of human thru horoscope(the corres
-ponding division is navamsa-dwadasamsa(9*12 = 108) aka division
108, which is of 9th harmonic in horashastra cycle)



Vidya and Avidya
----------------

Vidya = Vid +ya

-That(ya), enlightens(vid)
-Self-enlightenment
-self knowledge
-that is knowledge which leads human beings towards
Parama'rtha. Knowledge which leads human beings towards
mundane objects is called `avidya''. People have to labour
hard to attaineither vidya' or avidya'. For dha'rmika people,
vidya' is essential.Avidya', however, serves minor purposes
(physical sustenance, like food and shelter and is not to be
completely rejected. `Satyam'. As you know the definition of
satyam is;

`Parahita'rtham' vaungmanaso yatha'rthatvam' satyam.'

That is, the right application of thought and words for the
welfare of humanity is called satya. That which one thinks or
says with a view to harming(producing Asatya, eg; Max Muller
and Alan Templeton) others may be a fact or a factual statement,
but it is not satya.

`Vidya'' means `true knowledge'. Vidya' is divided into two
sections: vidya' and avidya'. Avidya' is mundane knowledge
and includes material science(like Technology Dr, Wall St,
Accounting Blvd, Enronized Economics Ave, et al:). Vidya'
means spiritual science. One must know this spiritual science.
You may say how can an illiterate person, a less educated
person, acquire vidya'? Here vidya' does not mean the self-
realization that you get through books, `vidya'' means the
movement of the mind towards Parama Purus'a(I say Kala Purusha).

Thats why I respect illiterates, rather than the educatated(Avidyic).

In this Universe two forces are functioning simultaneously. One is
Vidya', the other is Avidya'. 'Vidya'' means 'centripetal force' and
'Avidya'' is 'centrifugal force.' Vidya' is the centre-seeking force;
that is, Vidya' is helping everybody in their movement towards the
Supreme Nucleus(Paramathma). it is the centre-seeking force.
And the other force is Avidya'.

> came from Africa around 60000 years ago.

Let us recall Vedic Time Cycle. You usually notice Ramalaya in
every village. We should bow at the feet of Lord Rama to get
enlightenment. Rama was(rather, IS : Chiranjeevi(oh not the telugu
cinema Actor) of existed in Treta Yuga, which is more than
864,000(Length of Dwapara Yuga) + 5103(Kali Yuga started in Feb
3102 BC).

And I clearly stated about who has Authority of such judgements.
These guys are of Avidyic.


> http://webster.com/mw/table/indoeuro.htm
> http://www.geocities.com/indoeurop/atree.html

Taittriya Upanishad, Chapter 1 is enough to ignore such facts.

This thread was started, because of Shoodra, Dravida, Brahmins et al.

Let me add few things about Who is Brahmin.


Mlechha hi yavanasteshu samyakchakthridham stitham |
Rishivattepi pujyante kim punardaivavidwijam || 14||

I borrowed the above verse from Prsna Marga of Harihara.
This immortal classic is of 1640 AD.

Translation:
When even Mlechchas(inhabitants of afganistan, persia, arabia),
and Yavans(Greeks) are well versed in astrology(Vedanga) are
held in the same esteem as Rishis, who would deny respect
to a Jyotishi who happens to be a brahmin?

Purport:
I would rather give the interpretation of Brahmin. The Brahmin,
unlike as commonly understood, can be anyone, who leads a
simple and pious life. Everyword got its meaning. Being born
in some brahmin family does not mean brahmin. Why dont we ask
these (A)brahmins about the purpose of Upanayana and 3 knots
I have seen lots of (A)Brahmins, whose day starts with break-
fasting with pork. Probably, we got these misconceptions due
to such kinda (A)brahmins. Like I said, We shud strive for the
wisdom to differentiate Vidya from Avidya, and Brahmin from
ABrahmin.



Best Regards,
Venkateswara Reddy
-----------------kkkk---------------------------------
(no subject) Message List
Reply | Forward Message #715 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Ref Amarakosha Re: (unknown)

Let me add my 2 cents,

Vedic texts mentions of VarNas for groups, not *aarya* for any group
or class. Sita Devia refers to Shree Rama as Arya; sp does Mandorari
to Ravana. Amara Simha of "amarakosha" gives sabhya, sajjana,
saadhava, et al. as equivalents. PuraaNas use these words in such
context only.

May I be born in that first cradle of civilization again and again, so
that all my brethern reach thee.

Best Regards,
VR



> Hi Venu,
>
> Do I stand corrected? I think not.
> Aryaputra = son of a noble father
> And not husband.
> Basically it means the Putra of an Aryan. Sita and
> Devayani called their husbands AryaPutra because they
> could not call them by their given names. In this age,
> most women do.
> In any case, AryaPutra is a name, and some people
> carry this name even today. So whenever a woman calls
> him AryaPutra, it simply means that she is addressing
> him. Shouldn't be taken in the wrong sense.
> Just clearing something up.
> Sridevi.
>
>
>
> --- Bommareddy Venugopal
> wrote:
> > hi sridevi,
> > sermon or not i think u have said in words what is
> > there in everybody's minds. but forget the movies
> > please. our film makers don't have attention to
> > detail.
> > so we see fencing with thin swords(which never
> > existed
> > in Ind history), roman circus kind of fights (esp
> > the
> > one with a net and a trishulam look alike.)etc.
> > culture of that period is missing - dress, lang et
> > al
> > .
> > bye
> > venu.
> > ps: maybe i'm wrong but aryaputra is/was a term
> > generally used by wives to address their husbands ;)
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
> http://sports.yahoo.com/
-----------------------kljllkl---------------------------------------
critics on "A brief note on the Reddy community of Andhra Pradesh" Message List
Reply | Forward Message #712 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: critics on "A brief note on the Reddy community of Andhra Pradesh"

Dear SRK,
Basically, we lack Vidya[That(ya), enlightens(Vid)]. I will come up
with the addendum in a couple of days, if time permits. Probably, in
a couple of days.

Best Regards,
VR



> Dear VR
> sorry that I am continuing the topic that u didnt want to pursue
any
> further!!
> regarding the AIT(Aryan Invasion theory) ..this attackin against
> maxmuller is a recent phenomenon..perpetrated by neo-hindu zeolots
> likes BJP,VHP... and thier cotorie
> and never ever subscribe to their ideology..they are only interested
> in aryavartha! they can do anything and to any extent to maintain
> their so called aryan supremacy!!..even that means distorting
> history..
> look what they have done to our history books!
> I live in north india..and common man...these people here are so
> different to southindians(looks wise)(although culturally they are
> similar!)...
> and the german grammer is very much similar to sanskrit
grammer...and
> many of the root words in sanskrit can be found PLENTY in german and
> european languages!
> just because max is german doesnt mean he will stoop to show shim as
> vedic schoalor..its these hindu-zeolots who dont have the courage to
> accept some facts!! and through out history people moving from one
> place to another is a very common phenomenon! theres nothing to sulk
> about this!!
> and regarding ur valmiki statements... some statements look so rosy
> and judicious in books.. but see the practical aspects of it.. how
> many of US follow what valmiki has written!!? whats the ground
> reality now?? it has been like this for the centuries dear.
> Be practical!! see life!!
>
> cheers
> SRK
> --- In ReddyOnline@y..., "venkateshwara_reddy"
> wrote:
> > Dear SRK,
> >
> > Here we go,
> > Arya = Learned cf: Bhagavad Gita.
> >
> > This AIT(aryan invasion theory) was a piece of crap, introduced
by
> > assoles like Max Muller, to portray himself as Vedic scholar in
> > western world. I would advise to those, who are intersted in
this,
> > have a glance at the critiques by Mr M Sastry, editor of
> Andhrabhoomi
> > in the column UNNAMAATA. Sadly, the
> > www.andhrabhoomionline.com/unnamata.html is dead.
> >
> > Regarding Smritis, Have you ever tried to Read Manu Smriti? or
just
> > heard thru somebody?
> >
> > Let us recall Great Sage Valmiki in this regard.
> >
> > "Janmanoh Bhavati ShoodraH, Karmanoh Jayathi Brahmanah"
> >
> > He clearly stated that "Everybody by birth are shoodras and
Becoming
> > brahman, depends on his pursuits, desires et al"
> >
> > Dear SRK, or anybody, I am not attacking your personalities. Just
> > giving references. Take it easy.
> >
> > I dont wanna extend the arguments pertaining to this.
> >
> >
> > Just some basic questions:
> >
> > What is the meaning of the following words
> > 1. Vidya 2. Bhaarat
> >
> > Can anybody give classic reference to Andhra?
> >
> > I remain,
> > VR
> >
> >
> > > well well...does mr kanna reddy have any evidence that we are
> aryan!
> > > if u go by the aryan system we are shudhras! but a shudhra who
> > > proved that no one can be a putdown just by enacting some
stupid
> > aryan
> > > class system.. a shudhra who was so powerful that the aryans
could
> > not
> > > keep him down with their vedic scriptures!
> > > note the names of any past reddy kings or some of our
> > granddads...
> > > their first names were never of sanskrit origin(aryan)
> > > its only nowadays that reddys started taking aryan names buddy!!
> > > I think my point is clear to the audience!!
> > >
> > > cheers
> > > SRK
> > >
> > > --- In ReddyOnline@y..., "kanna" wrote:
> > > > what the hell going on with the information about Reddy
> > > > community yaar. all the information given about the
> > origin/history
> > > > of Reddy community looks like trash.
> > > >
> > > > somebody is fooling us. and we have to believe that some
> > > > mr.ramchandra rao is investigating our community's history
> > leaving
> > > > his community. and other guy says that the history of Reddy
last
> > > > back from england and so.
> > > >
> > > > our origin is 'Aryan'. we all belong to aryan group and we
had
> > > > other name called 'dravida', cause we belong to 'dravida
desa'.
> > > > (india was previously called as dravida desa). and the
history
> > > > presented by some friends looks to be rubbish.
> > > >
> > > > the main occupation of Reddy community, as per indian history
is
> > > > cultivation. might be in mean time, Reddy's formed to have
ruled
> > > > some places, were in key positions in some kingdoms. as this
> > > > community people has good ability of work and perfomance,
they
> > > > could manage to be the leaders of the villages and societies.
> the
> > > > same thing was in different parts of the regions of andhra
> > pradesh
> > > > with naidu(s), kamma(s), raju(s) and so on. who ever
dominated
> > the
> > > > area, they were the leaders.
> > > >
> > > > but the bad thing is the rubbish politics. some people of the
> > > > community behaved in such a manner that total community is
> facing
> > > > a the word - 'reddys do anything for power & money'. i don;t
> know
> > > > how many among you are aware of the nothern part of the
country.
> > > > but i had a experience with some north indians saying these
> > words.
> > > > i am not stressing these words, but i am trying justify what
i
> > > > heard. for this reason, our community is moving out of
politics.
> > > > after NTR, the influence of our community has decreased. i am
> not
> > > > criticising NTR ji. i am his fan. he is the key man for the
> > > > planning of modern andhra pradesh. but on the other side,
our
> > > > community do not have chances of getting jobs from govt &
public
> > > > sectors or any convinient jobs. the only thing Reddy has to do
> is
> > > > to cultivate the lands which do not have any water sources
> > > > (already better lands are on the way with PWG naxalites) and
> > other
> > > > way is to study hard and compete for professional jobs which
we
> > > > are doing now. we don;t have other way. the people who are
> > > > economically sound in our community are also forcing their
> > > > children to study hard and to go abroad so that they will be
> away
> > > > from social evils.
> > > >
> > > > don't think that i am going out of topic, i always wanted to
> > > > metion my feelings. now i got it.
> > > >
> > > > i request the friends who are passing the rubbish
information,
> > try
> > > > to judge the genunity of the information and pass it. you can
> > have
> > > > if not much, a little information from our elders. don't
under
> > > > estimate our elders. i am beating 'Dabba', the people in our
> > > > community are intelligent and informative. if not how could
they
> > > > have ruled the state and were in key position for so many
years
> > > > (even now).
> > > >
> > > > finally, i would like to say that - the word REDDY - says
that -
> > > > we are READY for anything & everything. we have the capability
> of
> > > > acheiving any strong hurdles. the only thing we have to prove
> is,
> > > > we should prove our unity.
> > > >
> > > > "Hail REDDY"
-----------------kkklkl-------------------------------------
(no subject) Message List
Reply | Forward Message #702 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
AIT (was Re; (no subject))

Dear SriDevi,(your name reminds me of shri Lagna, which is the key in
deciphering Wealth aka various forms of Lakshmi, like Dhana, Danya,
Bhoo Lakshmi in ones chart).

There were some people, like HP Blavatsky et al, mentioned that the
origin of arya = ariya --> Iran [1. Secret Doctrine]. HP Blavatsky
introduced the idea of Lemuria( an island, south of Tamil Nadu, was
submersed in water, like 1000s of years ago). She floated the idea of
dravidians, based on the inhabitants of this island. Of course, I do
like certain works of Theosophical Society, Madras. Some of their
works were based on ones imagination, say occult et al.Just they
floated some ideas, got followers to listen. They dint even talk
about Baghalamukhi Vidya(one of 10 mahavidyas) in their works on
Occult or Mantric literature. It shows their (mis)understanding of
Vedic Wisdom. How come such people are *authoritative* like writing
books on mantra.

There are lots of traditional families india have got undisclosed
knowledge on certain Vedangas, like Jyotisha. Deciphering certain
verse is kinda difficult, for example, katapayadi number system, used
by Sage Jaimini in his immortal classic "Upadesa Sutra". Many
translators of yore misrepresented certain things in this regard.
Reasons are many. Just they floated some ideas, got followers to
listen.

Let me extend my post, at the last moment.

Indological linguistic magic and word juglary aside, not even a tiny
evidence for the so-called Aryan Invasion (of India) or Aryan
Migration (into or out of India), or even the existance of a RACE or
TRIBE called "Aryan" exists in ancient Indian texts (or in practice
in India) - not in the Vedas, BhraahmaNas, AaraNyakas, Darshana
texts, Vedanga texts, Shrauta and Gr`hya sutras, 18 major PuraaNas,
RamayaNa, Mahaabhaarata Itihaasa texts, several upa-puraaNas, and
multitudes of commentaries on many of them as well as commentaries on
the commmentaries - written before the Europeans "discovered" India
and Sanskrit/Samskr`tam, and thee barbaric "Aryans" whose
priest "class" gave the most profund thoughts to humanity! All this
is now known as pure Euro-centric colonial humbug.

Remembering the ancestry stretching way back to thousands of years
and geography features is a unique feature of Indian civilization
through gotra-pravara, teertha yaatras and references to places even
in the daily Sandhyaavandana (eg., Ganga-Yamunayormunibhyascha
namah). None of this matches the Indological constructs.

It is on this point, Witzel's labor stands out. He has struggled very
hard to construct such proof - even revealing in the process that he
does not know Sanskrit/Samskr`ta grammar! Our Vaidika panditas in
India's villages quietly laugh at this kind of psuedo-expertise. Even
current Indological opinions are case studies of monumental blunders,
perfectly in line with its 18th century colonial foundation. The
single most contribution of such Indology to us in the West is a
thorough muddying of India's true history and ennobling contributions
so that we remain in our primitive war culture!

As long as we look through the prism of Indology, anything of India
will appear with bizarre colors that seems to have had originated
from our western habitats.

More on some other day,

I remain,
VR
--------------------jkkklkl----------------------
critics on "A brief note on the Reddy community of Andhra Pradesh" Message List
Reply | Forward Message #689 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: critics on "A brief note on the Reddy community of Andhra Pradesh"

Dear SRK,

Here we go,
Arya = Learned cf: Bhagavad Gita.

This AIT(aryan invasion theory) was a piece of crap, introduced by
assoles like Max Muller, to portray himself as Vedic scholar in
western world. I would advise to those, who are intersted in this,
have a glance at the critiques by Mr M Sastry, editor of Andhrabhoomi
in the column UNNAMAATA. Sadly, the
www.andhrabhoomionline.com/unnamata.html is dead.

Regarding Smritis, Have you ever tried to Read Manu Smriti? or just
heard thru somebody?

Let us recall Great Sage Valmiki in this regard.

"Janmanoh Bhavati ShoodraH, Karmanoh Jayathi Brahmanah"

He clearly stated that "Everybody by birth are shoodras and Becoming
brahman, depends on his pursuits, desires et al"

Dear SRK, or anybody, I am not attacking your personalities. Just
giving references. Take it easy.

I dont wanna extend the arguments pertaining to this.


Just some basic questions:

What is the meaning of the following words
1. Vidya 2. Bhaarat

Can anybody give classic reference to Andhra?

I remain,
VR


> well well...does mr kanna reddy have any evidence that we are aryan!
> if u go by the aryan system we are shudhras! but a shudhra who
> proved that no one can be a putdown just by enacting some stupid
aryan
> class system.. a shudhra who was so powerful that the aryans could
not
> keep him down with their vedic scriptures!
> note the names of any past reddy kings or some of our
granddads...
> their first names were never of sanskrit origin(aryan)
> its only nowadays that reddys started taking aryan names buddy!!
> I think my point is clear to the audience!!
>
> cheers
> SRK
>
> --- In ReddyOnline@y..., "kanna" wrote:
> > what the hell going on with the information about Reddy
> > community yaar. all the information given about the
origin/history
> > of Reddy community looks like trash.
> >
> > somebody is fooling us. and we have to believe that some
> > mr.ramchandra rao is investigating our community's history
leaving
> > his community. and other guy says that the history of Reddy last
> > back from england and so.
> >
> > our origin is 'Aryan'. we all belong to aryan group and we had
> > other name called 'dravida', cause we belong to 'dravida desa'.
> > (india was previously called as dravida desa). and the history
> > presented by some friends looks to be rubbish.
> >
> > the main occupation of Reddy community, as per indian history is
> > cultivation. might be in mean time, Reddy's formed to have ruled
> > some places, were in key positions in some kingdoms. as this
> > community people has good ability of work and perfomance, they
> > could manage to be the leaders of the villages and societies. the
> > same thing was in different parts of the regions of andhra
pradesh
> > with naidu(s), kamma(s), raju(s) and so on. who ever dominated
the
> > area, they were the leaders.
> >
> > but the bad thing is the rubbish politics. some people of the
> > community behaved in such a manner that total community is facing
> > a the word - 'reddys do anything for power & money'. i don;t know
> > how many among you are aware of the nothern part of the country.
> > but i had a experience with some north indians saying these
words.
> > i am not stressing these words, but i am trying justify what i
> > heard. for this reason, our community is moving out of politics.
> > after NTR, the influence of our community has decreased. i am not
> > criticising NTR ji. i am his fan. he is the key man for the
> > planning of modern andhra pradesh. but on the other side, our
> > community do not have chances of getting jobs from govt & public
> > sectors or any convinient jobs. the only thing Reddy has to do is
> > to cultivate the lands which do not have any water sources
> > (already better lands are on the way with PWG naxalites) and
other
> > way is to study hard and compete for professional jobs which we
> > are doing now. we don;t have other way. the people who are
> > economically sound in our community are also forcing their
> > children to study hard and to go abroad so that they will be away
> > from social evils.
> >
> > don't think that i am going out of topic, i always wanted to
> > metion my feelings. now i got it.
> >
> > i request the friends who are passing the rubbish information,
try
> > to judge the genunity of the information and pass it. you can
have
> > if not much, a little information from our elders. don't under
> > estimate our elders. i am beating 'Dabba', the people in our
> > community are intelligent and informative. if not how could they
> > have ruled the state and were in key position for so many years
> > (even now).
> >
> > finally, i would like to say that - the word REDDY - says that -
> > we are READY for anything & everything. we have the capability of
> > acheiving any strong hurdles. the only thing we have to prove is,
> > we should prove our unity.
> >
> > "Hail REDDY"
--------------------------------jjjj---------------------
Anglo- Saxon Reddys Message List
Reply | Forward Message #653 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Anglo- Saxon Reddys

Include Helen Reddy of Hollywood



> The following site is interesting giving the details of the Reddys
> from United Kingdom!!
>
> http://www.geocities.com/colinreddy/REDDY.html
>
> --- In ReddyOnline@y..., "bommareddy_vg" wrote:
> > i was generally searching for reddy history and i a few reddy
> > sites/homepages. i'm surprised there are anglo -saxon reddys as
> well.
> > could any of u tell me if there is any link.
------------------------jklkjlkl----
Reservations in private sector!!! Message List
Reply | Forward Message #651 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Reservations in private sector!!!

Dont worry about it. Ways are money to short it.


Best Regards, VR


> People,
>
> They did it before and they are about to do it again!
> our politicians are proving once again that they can
> do anything to acquire power!
>
> Now A.P state politicians want to implement
> reservations in the private sector and they are going
> to recommend the central government to do the same.
> They are closing the avenues for the so called
> "Forward Castes" even in the private sector as if the
> existing ones in the government sector are not
> enough..
>
> I am not against helping the downtrodden people, but
> let there be a rational and sensible way to do it.
> Reservations on the caste basis are only going to help
> the already well to do's and not those who deserve it.
>
>
> Can we do something about it?
>
> Praveen
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
> http://mail.yahoo.com/
--------------jkljkl---
have a look Message List
Reply | Forward Message #635 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: have a look

Let me add my 2 cents.
Almost everybody in this news group related to Information
Technology and Computers in some way. Computer languages do have
Grammers, like Normal Languages. After all, The Language is a set of
strings generated by Grammer, which can be represented by 4-tuple[1]
notion, induced by Hopcroft, Ullmann. There, we usually discuss about
syntax, normal forms, like Chomsky, Griebach et al.

Let us recall our Ancient Indian scholar, Panini of 5 BC. He
explained all this stuff in his compendium[2], like 2000 years ago.
Sage Bharadwaja was excellent in Aeronautics, fyi.
Just we are running after some thing, which would be/could be proven
wrong at later point of time.


References
[1] J.E. Hopcroft, J.D. Ullman, and R. Motwani-
Introduction to Automata and Language Theory, Addison-Wesley, 2000.
[2] Panini, Ahstadhyayi.

Best Regards,
VR


> Hi,
> India is motherland of guys like this. It's
incredible! But true. An Indian boy in his twelfth standard has
disproved Einstein's "Theory of Relativity." Shocked??? Read on.
>
> Sudarshan Reddy has theoretically proven the existence of a
subatomic particle which can travel at speeds greater than
that of light, thereby challenging one of the fundamental
postulates of the "Theory of Relativity." In his recent
research paper submitted to the "Institute of Advanced Physics
(IAP)" at Trieste, (Italy) Sudarshan has proved the existence of
a class of subatomic particles alled 'leptons', which can
travel faster than light. The international physics community has
been shell shocked by this discovery. Dr.Massimo Martelli,
President of the IAP has this to say about the paper
> submitted by Sudarshan: " After a long, careful and critical
analysis, I can confidently say that Sudarshan 's research
paper show a tremendous leap in our understanding of physics as
his investigation mounts up on 'leptons'. His work builds
substantially on the work of Einstein and others in the field of
relativity. When physicists from Princeton University tried to
measure Sudarshan's IQ with an IQ-meter (at the American embassy
in Delhi), the meter broke down, simply because it was not
calibrated to measure such high IQ. This was reported in 'Times
of India.' Prof. Carl Uppsala, Chairman of the Nobel subcommittee
for physics has confirmed that Sudarshan has been
> shortlisted for the Nobel prize in physics for the year
2001.
>
> Sudarshan, incidentally, is the brother of Madhu Reddy, the
Indian whiz kid who developed an operating system superior to
Microsoft Windows.
> We should all be very proud of these boys. Please forward this
email to as many Indians as you can.
>
> Jai Hind.... Regards,Mohan Reddy Nandyala
>
> mohanReddy.N Programmer Analyst VisualSoft Technologies,
KundanBagh, Hyderabad, off: 3412266 extn: 5035
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
-----------------------jkjk------------------------------
Frist time travel experience of a MS Student Message List
Reply | Forward Message #627 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Advice (Was Re: Looking for well mannered girl)

Hi Guys,
It is nice to see your mails. I would rather advise you people to
respond privately for the advertisements, because publicising phone
numbers, names is not good on the net.


Best Regards,
VR
---------------hjjk-----------------
OUR GODDESS Message List
Reply | Forward Message #616 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: OUR GODDESS

Dear Dileep Reddy,
Every Person has his own Ista Devata, Palana Devata, Kula Devata,
Grama Devata. These things can be delienated by the Dharmasa chart, as
per your horoscope. One has to worship one`s Ista Devata in the
morning or evenings(depends on the strength of sathya houses in ur
chart). So is fasting on the day, indicated by deity.


Most of Grama devatas are martian deities though.


Best Regards, Venkateshwara

> hi friends,
>
> MOOLAGURAMMA is our KULADEVATA. Her temple is
> situated in KONDAVEEDU ( now in guntur dt.).
> KONDAVEEDU REDDYRAJAS prayed Her for lokakalyanam.
>
>
> dileep k. reddy
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> Looking for a job? Visit Yahoo! India Careers
> Visit http://in.careers.yahoo.com
-------------------------kljljkkl------------------------------------------------
Indian Budget & NRIs Message List
Reply | Forward Message #605 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Indian Budget & NRIs



Rather, How this would help money laundering aka Hawala :-)

Best Wishes,
VR

> Indian Budget 2002-03 which has been announced has few beneficial
> announcements for NRIs. For example, NRIs will now be free to
> repatriate in foreign currency their current earnings in India.
>
> Click following for more details:
>
> http://www.banknetindia.com/banking/high4.htm
-------------jk------------------------------------
Regarding Ph.D. admission in foreign countries Message List
Reply | Forward Message #575 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Regarding Ph.D. admission in foreign countries

Honestly, It depends on the purpose of doing Ph.D.?
Why dont you try some good University in US rather than Europe/sg?

I am a great believer in the value of places such as MIT, Stanford,
Berkeley, Cornell, CMU, etc. This does *not* follow because the
*research quality* of these places is so good(which it is) but
because of the large and diverse international community of graduate
students and other researchers that surround these places.

I know a couple of folks doind Ph.D in Cornell CS dept. Their intent
is to start some innovative start-up to become millionaire in the
short plan. Their plans get scrwed up.

It is better to do PhD, if you are looking for Stable
career/Researcher in Industry/Acadamicia. One can make good money
like $100K per 10 months-year in Private University in US. Tenure
track positions fetch good money thru consulting too:)

One has to end up in US irrespetive of where you graduated from like
sweden/Holland/Sg. I would rather advise you to move to some *good*
Univ in US. TOEFL is mandatory for ESL(English as Second lingo) folks.
GRE does not matter in research admissions.

You can get hold of bengali professors in SOme US Univs. Lots of
bengali engg professors graduated from Jadhavpur Univ. Use Jadhavpur
alumni/faculty to track of `em.

Ways are many for those, who wanna move to US:)

Good Luck with ur endeavours,

I Remain,
VR




Best Regards,
VR

> Hi Reddy friends,
>
> I completed master's degree in Production Engineering in Jadavpur
University, Calcutta.
>
> I want to do Ph.D. in foreign countries like Singapore, Sweden,
Netherlands etc.
>
> If u have any information regarding that u please send me
>
> OK bye for now
>
> Raghava Reddy
---------------------------klkk—
Regarding CAD/CAM jobs Message List
Reply | Forward Message #574 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Regarding CAD/CAM jobs

Gone are good old days for all kinds of engineers.
CAD/CAM is *still* useful in chip boards/PCB manufacturing Industry.
Just look at the Semi Conductor Manufacturing Industry. Anyway, as of
now, the industry is bleak in US.

Another Financial Scandal is awaiting us:-)

SEC is kinda scrutinising the Accounting Practice adapted by Techie
Industy aka Pro-forma accounting(showing profits/Losses at operating
level is ridiculous)


Best Regards,
VR

> Hi co-reddys,
>
> I completed my master's degree in production engg. in Jadavpur
University, calcutta.
>
> I am very much interested in CAD/CAM field . if anybody doing
CAD/Cam job please send me some information.
>
> ok bye for now
>
> Raghava Reddy
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
-----------------------kllkkl====----
Can u find it Message List
Reply | Forward Message #571 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Can u find it

This Problem is called as Magic Squares of Order N. The solving
method depends on oddity of N.

You can have the solution aka Algorithm from the book [1]. This
problem is discussed in detail with solution at the end of
second/first chapter.

[1] Horowitz, E. and Sartaj, S. " Fundamentals of Computer
Algorithms", Computer Software Engineering Series, London Pitman,
1978.

Best Regards,
VR.


> 15 15 15
> 8 1 6 3 5 7 4 9 2
> 65 65 65 65 65
> 17 24 1 8 15 23 5 7 14
16 4 6 13 20 22 10 12 19 21
3 11 18 25 2 9
>
> 175 175
> 30 39 48 1 10 19 28 38
47 7 9 18 27 29 46 6 8 17
26 35 37 5 14 16 25 34 36
45 13 15 24 33 42 44 4 21 23
32 41 43 3 12 22 31 40 49 2 11
20
> in the above tables in the first one(3x3) the addition of number in
any direction is 15 like that in second one it's 65 (5x5) in third 175
(7x7).
>
> there should be one logic to get that count if we give the size.
>
> size 3 sum 15 ,5 - 65,7-175 .can u find the logic.
> 15/3 --- 5 ,65/5 --- 13, 175/7 --- 25
> i am not getting the logic. any one can find it.
> Thank you
> regards
> sunanda reddy
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
------------------jklkjklj---------------------------
sravan Message List
Reply | Forward Message #567 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: sravan

Check www.securityfocus.com and
CERT @CMU, www.cert.org
Why dont you check USENET newsgroups like comp.security.*
sci.crypt.* for cryptography et al
cf: groups.google.com

Best Regards, VR



> hai everybody
> I have to prepare a report of 30 to 40 pages on
> and a seminar
> Windows 2000 Advanced server and network security:
> The sub topics are
> 1. Discuss security feature of Micorsoft Windows 2000
> Advanced server.
> 2. Discuss how security is implemented in windows 2000
> advanced server.
> 3. weaknesses
> 4. Vulnerability
> 5. Possible improvements/solutions.
> can u tell me the websites and any other modes of
> help.
> bye
> sravan
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
-----------dsgfs-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Any one have idea about jobs after MS(non computers) in Germany Message List
Reply | Forward Message #552 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Any one have idea about jobs after MS(non computers) in Germany

Well, it is certainly depends on Supply-Demand equation rather what
kinda degrees one possess. Desha-Kala-Pathra(Place, time, role) does
matter in this context as it is powerful in predictions. I know a
guy, Steve Howard, who graduated from Stanford Univ., Calif with BS
in Comp. Science. Currently he is working at a departmental store in
Palo Alto., CA.(Time:) There is some other guy, who graduted from
Stanford CS dept, who is working with Kaplan coaching centre, as a
trainer for Prospective SAT students.

The Bottom line is:
Who is the winner?
TIME

Best Regards, VR
PS: DOnt worry anyways be realistic

> I am happy the way this group is going on and every one trying to
help each other. I would like to know some thing about opportunities
after MS in Non computers in Germany? Is the guy who did MS(non
computers) is eligible for IT jobs? And do you any idea about which
universties in Germany offering MS in Mech+computers. If you know
any univiersities in Germany which offers MS in computers for non
computers back ground please let me know. I will glad if you provide
some information which I asked and which is related to this.
>
> Have a Great Week End
>
> Jagadish Reddy
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
-------------sdfsf------------------------
Dowry - just another name to buy yourself a status? Message List
Reply | Forward Message #525 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Dowry - just another name to buy yourself a status?

> It does pain me to see families exchange dowry - for the simple
> reason that they are putting a price to their children.

Well, It causes pain to all middle class familes(I mean Low middle
class).

It is non-sense to discuss abt dowry in other classes like upper
class, where Marriage is kinda Joint Stock Company(recall basic
economics 101)


> I do hope and pray that the Reddy community follows my husband's
> footsteps ... the world will defintely be a better place to live in!

Sustenance of marriage is important rather marriage.



> As a postscript I would like to add, I recently heard that there was
> an exchange of 5 crores for an alliance ........ where does this
> stop and where do they get this kind of money?

Well, Again this case fell into Upper class. Lets not discuss about
marriage in upper class. As I already said it does mean that they do
have some other subliminal business contrracts between both
partys/families.

Prolly, liquor/drug trafficking. Just recall Bali Reddy of Berkeley.

Best Regards,
VR
-------------------llk----------------------------
(no subject) Message List
Reply | Forward Message #512 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Help needed..for articles

Hola SR,
How is KP Konda Reddy of Markapur. Bah!

>i am doing my masters in communication systems in iit madras.

Good Luck, How is campus recruitment going on?

> if u don't mine i want one help from u.that is in u.s some
> universities put assignments ,lectures,impartant information in web
> site.plese send web site address regading in my field.

Aren`t you familiar with Search Engines (www.google.com, where google
= 10^100.
Anyway, you can check the EECS dept of the following Univs

1. UC at Berkeley, www.eecs.berkeley.edu
2. Stanford www.stanford.edu
3. Caltech www.caltech.edu
4. Univ of Southern California, www.usc.edu
5. Univ of Calif at San Diego, www.ucsd.edu
6. Univ of Calif at Davis, www.ucdavis.edu
7. Univ of Washington at Seattle www.washington.edu
(The above mentioned are some good schools in West coast)

8. MIT, www.eecs.mit.edu
9. Yale Univ, New Haven, CT, www.yale.edu
8. Carnegie Mellon Univ, www.cmu.edu
10. Harvard Univ, www.harvard.edu
11. Princeton Univ, www.princeton.edu
12. Cornell Univ, www.cornell.edu
13. UPenn
14. U of Wisc at Madison, www.wisc.edu
15. Univ of Illionis at Urbana www.eecs.uiuc.edu
16. UTexas at Austin, www.utexas.edu
17. Univ of Maryland at Baltimore and college park
(some east coast univ et al)

Anyway, your instructor usually recommend the teaching material. No
need to worry about.

Laters, VR
11. Georgia Tech, www.gatech.edu
12.


> basically i am from markapur in prakasem dist(a.p). or in this
fields
>
> 1.siganl processing
> 2.networking
> 3.telecom
> 4.digital communications.
>
> i am waiting for ur mail by
>
> k.s.reddy
> K.SRINIVASA REDDY,M.TECH IN IIT MADRAS IN COMMUNICATION
SYSTEMS,CHENNAI.
----------------------hdfh----------------------------------------
Talk of the town--Municipal elections Message List
Reply | Forward Message #509 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Talk of the town--Municipal elections

> AP for so many years. The proof for this would be the
> progress we have achieved in many fields especially in
> IT industry.

OPen your eyes. Check the today Eenadu paper, 1/23/01.
Read the article on How APSRTC is gonna hike the charges by
incorporating Service charges, due to Information Technology.

Best Regards, VR
------------------------------l;;;;;;;;;;;;----------------------
Talk of the town--Municipal elections Message List
Reply | Forward Message #500 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Talk of the town--Municipal elections

> AP for so many years. The proof for this would be the
> progress we have achieved in many fields especially in
> IT industry.

IT industry wont feed the havenots.

Laters, VR
-----oopiopiop=---------------------------------
how to apply for H1 from abraod Message List
Reply | Forward Message #492 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Immigration/INS related questions

www.intrescom.org
Int`l Rescue Committe is also helpful in this matter. Lots of fresh
Graduates aka Juris Doctor(J.D)s from reputed Law schools work for
this Voluntary Organization. No Fees.
The other way is to visit your local reputed Law School. They usually
have ASIAN immigration support law forums.

Another one is American Civil Liberties UNION (www.aclu.org, which
usually whip the ass of Federal n State Governments.
Federal officials usually shiver, when they hear abt ACLU.
Now ACLU is helping the detainees held by INS, FBI Inc regarding 911
event. ACLU has lots of High profile reputed Attornies. They usually
help in large issues.Donate money to ACLU.

Regards, VR


> For INS related questions - please visit www.isn.org website.
>
> It is called the Immigrant Support Network.
>
> The site is run by volunteers and provides a lot of current
> information on immigration to USA.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> I have a question of my own - what is the deal with people trying
to
> go to UK - I have heard just in the past one week, atleast four
guys
> getting visas and leaving for London - what are the restrictions on
> such a visa - my only concern is that these guys will ultimately
face
> problems there upon their arrival and after some loss of time and
> money, may eventually have to go back. I just want to know if it
is
> a calculated risk or plain ol' stupidity?
>
> -viplav-
>
>
> --- In ReddyOnline@y..., "m_sreddy_2000" wrote:
> > hi ,
> > i am working in Thailand .i have 3 years of software
experience.can
> > any body help how to get H1.Bcoz i couldnt any counsultant
here.plz
> > anybody can help .
> > sreenivasa reddy M
------------opkk;l===---
UK Message List
Reply | Forward Message #491 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Attn: Yeshwant Reddy

Dude, are you the same person, whom I happened meet you in IRC
Dullnet #bangalore, #hyderabad ages ago like in 1999. I think you are
in Jaya Nagar, 6th Block, if so.

Good Luck,
VR


> I need small help my system reboots frequently by
> itself i am not able to find rectify the problem what
> could be the problem pls give me some suggestions.
>
> Regards
>
> R.Y.Reddy
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Everything you'll ever need on one web page
> from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
> http://uk.my.yahoo.com
------------------------dgdgf------------------------------------------
Some IMPortant....... Message List
Reply | Forward Message #490 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Some IMPortant.......

It is better to major in Law, Accounting, Business. Atleast you can
make $20 per hour in US. Atleast you can immune yourself from
recession. Indian degrees in these fields are almost Void. Otherwise
odd jobs:-)
Advise to those, who are in school: Try to minor/Joint Degree in
Business or accounting besides hi-tech, aka low-tech nowadays.

Regards, VR.


> Hi REDDY friends...........
>
> SATYAM : Sad And Tired Yelling Away Madly
>
> HCK : Hideen Costs And Losses
>
> SUN : Surely Useless Novelties
>
> wipro : Weak Input, Poor And Rubbiss Output
>
> HP : Hen Paked
>
> IBM : Implicity Boring Machines
>
> PCL : Poor Computers ltd
>
> ICIM : Impossible Computers In Maintenance
>
> TCI : Totally Confusing Solutions
>
> INFOSYS : INFerrior Offline Systems
>
> C-DOT : Coffe Durings Office Timings
>
> TUL : Troubles Un Limited
>
> NIIT : Not Interested in It
>
> Tisl : Totally Inconsistent Systems Ltd.
>
> BPL : Below Poverty Line
>
> HUGHES : Heghly Usless Graduates Hired for Eating.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send FREE video emails in Yahoo! Mail.
--------------------fghgf-h-----------------
H1-B Question Message List
Reply | Forward Message #427 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: H1-B Question

> Then I got a job with a Networking company and I transferred my H1-B
> to the new company.
>
> Is it possible for me to go back work for my friends company in the
> future?

Yes as long as your old employer wont revoke your H1B(old visa).

VR
----------------d---------------------------
Interesting posting on Reddys.... Message List
Reply | Forward Message #426 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Interesting posting on Reddys....

Hmm, you people seems to be intersted in contesting Legislative
assembly/Parliament Elections. Lock-in the profits in
stocks/notes/equities for next assembly election.

1 Vote = 1 .com Preferential share,

Amen, VR

>
> I think we should treat it as trash from an ignorant person trying
to
> flame up caste sentiments and trying to be pseudo-intelligent. The
> fact that one reddy fights another reddy in any region they are,
> itself speaks that nepotism is the last thing that reddies will
> adopt. If nepotism is the cause, why is it that there are prominent
> reddies across all political parties when they should only be
> concentrated in Congress party?
> > Sunil
----------------gfhfh-------------------------------
The terrorist strike on Indian Parliament as an attack on all democ Message List
Reply | Forward Message #398 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: To venkateshwara_reddy's Opinion

I hope that I dint hurt anybody. I must apologize, if so.
Naxalite movement is corrupted. How many of these current naxalite
activists did ever read "Selected works" of Karl Marx/Frederic
Engels. How many of `em got the gist of communism. Leave these pseudo-
communist dudes. So is psuedo-democrats.

Human relations is economical- Karl Marx.
Some people in this list pointed out traditions, love, marriage et al.
Love is a relation. So, it is economical. So is everything(exept
fathering/mothering). Only degree of economicness shows the latter.
Where is Dharma?
Who is qualified enough to become law maker.
Show one MP, who is not corrupt. Publicly, he is not corrupt. Ask him
to show the compaign fund. Ask him, where the heck did he get the
rupees.

Regarding elections: Come to some constituencies in Rayala seems. How
people rig the votes. I will show you around. Anyway, I revoked my
voting status. Recall the election of ex-PM, PV narasimha rao, who
contested from Nandyal Constituency. I personally noticed these
illicit practises. Screw this electronic voting(unless it is
cryptographically secure). How these politicians are abusing
electronic voting. Kill those s-o-bs/bastards irrespetive of
caste/race/greed.

As a reddy, I sought help from local MP(who is reddy). He dint give
an appointment for 3 months.
A senator office in US is better in dealing with people. Their
service is better though they get kickbacks in illicit ways. It does
not affect the normal people life.

Corruption in India affect a lot to normal people. It is better to
chop their heads off. Such days are yet to come.

VR
------------------------df-----------------------------
The terrorist strike on Indian Parliament as an attack on all democ Message List
Reply | Forward Message #392 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: The terrorist strike on Indian Parliament

I do condemn the barbaric terrorist attacks. But, I might hv felt happy, if
those terrorists could have killed all these MPs
Kill these corrupted parliament.
Hail It
Regards, VR
------------------kkkjkjk----------------------
Help!! Message List
Reply | Forward Message #388 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Help!!

Unfortunately, Most of the groceries, gas stations, motels are owned
by either sardarjis or patels. Anyway, I am helpless in your friend`s
case. I heard that it is pretty easy to get such job in east coast.
Talk to desi owners. They may help your friend. Beware of INS and
especially Section 212(a)(6)(E)(i). Maintain secrecy.
One has to get the salary by cash. Dont let the info abt unauthorized
work. Still 245(a) allows unauthorised work for not more than 180
days.

Good Luck, VR




> Hi' everybody
>
> My friend Jeevan is on bench from past 10 months and he desperately
needs a
> job....so if anybody knows any odd job anywhere in NY, NJ or CT
> please let me know....any job in a grocery store or gas
station....so please
> help him....
>
> Satish Reddy....
> 631-463-2211 (cell
-----------------------df=-
new friend ...Byreddy. Message List
Reply | Forward Message #381 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Regarding Justindian.com

Hi Folks,
Justindian.com seems to be inactive for past 2 weeks. What the heck
is happened to that.

VR
----------gfgd----------------
Re: Important Considerations for people in our nation Message List
Reply | Forward Message #378 of 36214 < Prev | Next >
Re: Important Considerations for people in our nation

> BECOZ OF THE INSTABILITY OF THE MIND U PEOPLE ARE
> BECOMING VARIATED IN THINGS.

hmmm, Well said. I am pretty screwed up due to instability of female
mind.

> GOOD OUTCOME...AT SAMETIME THINK HOWMANY FAMILIES WERE
> BROKEN IN SILLY REASONS WITH ALL THESE DEVELOPMENTS..

One can built a House. But not a HOME.
Ask `em to immigrate to free world like USA.

Regards, VR
---------------------klllkl------
==================================lllll--======
---------------------------------------asas------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------asas----------------------------aasasasasas----------------------------------qwqw----------------------------------------aas
asasas------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------








[Avenkat]






Tough times ahead Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3503 of 36505 < Prev | Next >
Re: Tough times ahead

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "sankar_bandi"
wrote:
>
> Hia Group,
>
> Greetings, It's going to be real tough deal for the people come
> and work in abroad.

I dont think so. In fact, we will be seeing more prep companies like
Kaplan, Princeton Review in USA and its Indian replicas such as
Ramaiah, Narayana, Kora etc in India.

The presecriptive/Normative/Secular type education is screwing many
Telugu medium guys studying in typical Jilla Prajaaparishad Secular
schools. This is why we are seeing many English Educated Secular
Indians in USA Secular Schools, one of whom complaining about me
using "you all" in "You All guys + Verb Phrase." This kinda loony
fringe should need to explore dynamic/non-normative/non-
secular/Descriptive ingles Grammar rather than vociferously pointing
about *secular errors*!


> Pleae go through this article,
> http://www.andhrajyothy.com/mainshow.asp?qry=/2003/jun/1main14

"GRE/GMAT/SAT/LSAT are difficult to beat" is a secular slogan. For
those who are prepping for these exams can find the following books
interesting.

1. Morenberg, Max., Doing Grammar, OUP. Used book costs about $8.00,
new $30.00

2. Quirk, Randolph., et al, A comprehensive grammar of English
Language, used $120.00, New $270

3. Huddleston, R., Pullum, G., The Cambridge Grammar of the English
Language, $120 to $150

4. Nurnberg, M., et al, All About Words: An Adult Approach to
Vocabulary Building, $4.00

5. Nurnberg, M., et al, How to Build a Better Vocabulary, $4.00

6. Any dictionary with detailed Etymology, for example, Random House
Webster's Dictionary, $4.00


Of these, [1], [4], [5], and [6] are very helpful in many ways.

[2], and [3] are kind of reference books but scintillating if you
wanna know more about TG(Transformational-Generative) Grammars.


---o;kipk-----
Please spread THE GOD's word! Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3495 of 36505 < Prev | Next >
Pls. spread the following history of the so-called SECULAR forefathers.

-------------------
For those who know German, the following work of Karlheinz Deschner on Xianity
is magnum opus in the field of abrahamic.xian. He has so far written 6 volumes
of the history of Christianity, called, Kriminalgeschichte des Christentums. The
title translates as "The Criminal History of Christianities" and the first six
volumes are about 'Eastern Christianity'.


http://www.deschner.info/index_en.htm


"Christianity's Criminal History is the name of this work which has now expanded
to two volumes and which will eventually encompass a few more volumes as an opus
maximum: in its projected entirety probably the most comprehensive critical
history of Christianity ever. The title is intended in its absolute, literal
sense. Deschner is set on laying forth an uncompromising account of
Christianity's 'history of crime.' The spine title, formulated perhaps out of
publication considerations, expresses extenuating circumstances which the book
itself does not offer. And Christianity's Criminal History is also to be
understood in the sense of criminal detection, proof and exposure of the crime
and the culprits. The halo which has customarily surrounded said criminal
history is relentlessly attacked by Deschner as a monstrous hypocrisy.
The monumental figures of sacred history are in fact toppled right and left: the
church doctors, the dogmatic patriarchs, the early popes, the "most" Christian
emperors: Ambrose, Augustine, Athanasius, Basil, Clemens, Eusebius, Jerome,
Irenaeus, Lactantius ...

A litany of saints of blessed memory becomes an unholy litany of scoundrels one
would prefer to forget. Volume 1 is already in its fifth printing and covers the
time from Old Testament origins to the death of Saint Augustine. Volume 2 deals
with that period from the Catholic "children emperors" to the extermination of
the Arian Vandals and Ostrogoths under Justinian I. What these two books reveal
is a blood-drenched trail as remote as one can imagine from a message of love
and mercy, not a story of salvation but a monstrous catastrophe. In this
context, the expression "Christian persecutions" acquires a painfully ironic
twist: out of the victims arise the oppressors.


Marshalling arguments against this awful compilation of factual evidence will be
difficult. It may be that Deschner in cases of doubt always decides against the
accused. As a whole, however, this massive study, whose origins date back to the
1950s, is painstakingly thorough and researched with a scholarly diligence
without equal. The first two volumes contain almost 2,000 secondary titles, 130
pages of footnotes and annotations, in addition to a user-friendly, detailed
index, all of which makes this compendium of crime a fatally effective reference
work. This impressive apparatus also conveys a simple message: the author knows
that in spite of all the recognition he's received -- in 1988 he received the
Arno-Schmidt-Prize for his uncompromising literary production -- he is not going
to be easily, at any rate not voluntarily believed."



Prof. Dr. Ludger Lütkehaus, Freiburger Universitätsblätter
published under mandate from the President of the Albert-Ludwigs Universität,
Freiburg


Fax #: +1 240 201 7647
-----kjlkjlo---
Other Story of Taj Mahal Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2741 of 36505 < Prev | Next >
a couple of intersting pieces are appended herewith:

1. The Taj's other Story:

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A5220

2. Another independent writer's report.

Rgds,
VR



Forwarded:

Is it really the Taj Mahal or is it actually Tej
Mahalayam? Ever wondered why the 22 rooms in the Taj
Mahal are kept locked from public access? Stephen
Knapp has the answers on his web page, supported by
photographs from the Archaeological Survey of India.
History needs to be rewritten.

http://www.stephen-knapp.com/was_the_taj_mahal_a_vedic_temple.htm

Stephen Knapp also shows in his book how 5000 years
back, the whole world was united in a global Vedic
culture, and how Bharatvarsha got disintegrated to
what we are right now. From the Mayas and Incas in
America, to the European region to Africa, everything
was part of this great civilization and remnants of
its Vedic influence still remain.

http://www.stephen-
knapp.com/proof_of_vedic_culture's_global_existence.htm



The Taj's Other Story
Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A5220


If you have ever visited the Taj Mahal then your guide
probably told you that it was designed by Ustad Isa of
Iran, and built by the Moghul Emperor, Shah Jahan, in
memory of his wife Mumtaz Mahal. Indian children are
taught that it was built in 22 years (1631 to
1653) by 20,000 artisans brought to India from all
over the world.

This story has been challenged by Professor P.N. Oak,
author of Taj Mahal: The True Story, who believes that
the whole world has been duped. He claims that the Taj
Mahal is not Queen Mumtaz Mahal's tomb, but an ancient
Hindu temple palace of Shiva (then known as
Tejo Mahalaya), worshipped by the Rajputs of Agra
city.

In the course of his research, Oak discovered that the
Shiva temple palace had been usurped by Shah Jahan
from then Maharaja of Jaipur, Jai Singh. Shah Jahan
then remodelled the palace into his wife's
memorial. In his own court chronicle, Badshahnama,
Shah Jahan admits that an exceptionally beautiful
grand mansion in Agra was taken from
Jai Singh for Mumtaz's burial. The ex-Maharaja of
Jaipur is said to retain in his secret collection two
orders from Shah Jahan for the surrender of the Taj
building.

The use of captured temples and mansions as a burial
place for dead courtiers and royalty was a common
practice among Muslim rulers. For example, Hamayun,
Akbar, Etmud-ud-Daula and Safdarjung are all
buried in such mansions.

Oak's inquiries begin with the name Taj Mahal. He says
this term does not occur in any Moghul court papers or
chronicles, even after Shah Jahan's time. The term
'Mahal' has never been used for a
building in any of the Muslim countries, from
Afghanistan to Algeria.

'The usual explanation that the term Taj Mahal derives
from Mumtaz Mahal is illogical in at least two
respects. Firstly, her name was never Mumtaz Mahal but
Mumtaz-ul-Zamani,' he writes. 'Secondly, one
cannot omit the first three letters from a woman's
name to derive the remainder as the name for the
building.'

Taj Mahal is, he claims, a corrupt version of
Tejo-mahalaya, or the Shiva's Palace. Oak also says
that the love story of Mumtaz and Shah Jahan is a
fairy tale created by court sycophants, blundering
historians and sloppy archaeologists. Not a single
royal chronicle of Shah Jahan's time corroborates the
love story.

Furthermore, Oak cites several documents suggesting
that the Taj Mahal predates Shah Jahan's era:

Professor Marvin Miller of New York took samples from
the riverside doorway of the Taj. Carbon dating tests
revealed that the door was 300 years older than Shah
Jahan.

European traveller Johan Albert Mandelslo, who visited
Agra in 1638 (only seven years after Mumtaz's death),
describes the life of the city in his memoirs, but
makes no reference to the Taj Mahal being
built.

The writings of Peter Mundy, an English visitor to
Agra within a year of Mumtaz's death, also suggest
that the Taj was a noteworthy building long well
before Shah Jahan's time.

Oak also points out a number of design and
architectural inconsistencies that support the belief
that the Taj Mahal is a typical Hindu temple rather
than a mausoleum.

Many rooms in the Taj Mahal have remained sealed since
Shah Jahan's time, and are still inaccessible to the
public. Oak asserts they contain a headless statue of
Shiva and other objects commonly used for worship
rituals in Hindu temples.

Fearing political backlash, Indira Gandhi's government
tried to have Oak's book withdrawn from the
bookstores, and threatened the Indian publisher of the
first edition with dire consequences.

The only way to really validate or discredit Oak's
research is to open the sealed rooms of the Taj Mahal,
and allow international experts to investigate.




__________________________________________________
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-----klljk—
Thou shalt be Secular Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2737 of 36505 < Prev | Next >
Learned members,
Probably, this may be my last email discerning
secular, psec, secular bigotry, abrahamic effect on
Indians, and colonization. And I would like to thank
those involved in these discussions(both parties) for
shifting my focus on history, social sciences for a
while.

I am appending a transcript hereby, in which a voice
speaks about the history of secularization, two sides
of christianity expansion- proselytization, and
Universalization(Christianity with new cloths), and
denigration of Hindu traditions by Nehruvian
Socialism.


Note: The Voice in the appended transcript is not
MINE.
It is of Prof. Balagangadhara, S. N., Univ of Ghent,
Belgium. For proofs of the following claims, loan his
book from inter-library borrowings, titled as

"The Heathen in his Blindness..." Numen Book Series,
64 Asia, the West and the Dynamic of Religion

---------------------------------------------------
1.1. Not many would challenge the claim that
Christianity has been highly influential in the
development of the western culture. We need to take
this statement utterly seriously. It means that many
things we ‘take for granted’, whether in the West or
in India, come from the influence that Christianity
has exerted.

I claim that Christianity expands in two ways. (This
is not just typical of Christianity but of all
religions. I will talk only of Christianity because I
want to talk about the western culture.) Both of these
have been present ever since the inception of
Christianity and have mutually reinforced each other.
The first is familiar to all of us: *direct
conversion.* People from other cultures and
‘religions’ are explicitly converted to Christianity
and thus the community of Christian believers grows.
This is the ‘surface’ or explicit expansion of
Christianity. In India, both in the colonial and
modern times, this has been a theme of intense
controversy but, according to me, not of very great
consequence *when compared to the second way
Christianity also expands*.

1.2. Funnily enough, the second way in which
Christianity expands is *also* familiar to us: the
process *secularisation*. I claim that Christianity
‘secularises’ itself in the form of, as it were,
‘dechristianised Christainity’. What this word means
is: typically Christian doc trines spread wide and
deep (beyond the confines of the community of
Christian believers) in the society dressed up in
‘secular’ (that is, not in recognisably
‘Christian’) clothes. We need a very small bit of
Western history here in order to understand this point
better.

1.2.1. Usually, the ‘enlightenment period’, which is
identified as ‘the Age of Reason’, is alleged to be
the apotheosis (or the ‘high point’) of the process of
‘secularisation’. What people normally mean by
‘secularisation’ here is the following: the
enlightenment thinkers are supposed to have
successfully ‘fought’ against the dominance that
religion (i.e. Christianity) had until then exercised
over social, political, and economic life. From then
on, so goes the standard text book story, human kind
began to look to ‘reason’ instead of, say, the Church
in all matters social, civic, political etc. The
spirit of scientific thinking, which dominated that
age, has continued to gain ascendancy. As heirs to
this period, which put a definitive end to all forms
of ‘irrational’ subservience, we are proud citizens of
the modern day world. We are against all forms of
despotism and we are believers in democracy; we
believe in the role of reason in social life; we
recognise the value of human rights; and we should
understand that ‘religion’ is not a matter for state
intervention, but a ‘private’ and personal affair of
the individual in question. This, as I say, is the
standard text book story.

1.2.2. The problem with this story is simply this: the
enlightenment thinkers have built their formidable
reputation (as opponents of ‘all organised religion’
or even ‘religion’ tout court) by *selling* ideas from
*Protestant Christianity* as though they were
‘neutral’ and ‘rational’. Take for example the claim
that ‘religion’ is not a matter for state intervention
and that it is a ‘private’ affair of the individual in
question. (Indian ‘secularists’ agitatedly jump and
down to ‘defend’ this idea.) Who thought, do you
think, that ‘religi on’ was *not* a ‘private’ affair?
The Catholic Church, of course. Even to this day, it
believes that you *should* believe what the Church
says, and that because the Church mediates between Man
and God, what you believe in (as a Christian) is
decided by the Catholic Church. The Protestants fought
a battle with the Catholics on *theological* grounds:
they argued that ‘being a Christian believer’ (or what
the Christian believes in) is matter between the Maker
(i.e. God) and the Individual. It was *God* (i.e. the
Christian God), who judged man; and men *could not*
judge each other in matters of Christian faith. The
Church, they argued, could not mediate between Man and
God (according to their interpretation of the Bible);
the Catholic Church argued that men could not, using
only their reasoning and interpretative abilities,
interpret the Word of God (i.e. the Bible). To think
so is to be seduced by the Devil, and the only
guarantee against the seduction by the Devil and
eternal damnation was the Church itself and its
interpretation of the Bible. (There is a famous
doctrine of the Catholic Church, which says, ‘Extra
ecclesiam nulla salus’: there is no salvation - i.e.
being saved from the clutches of the Devil - outside
the Church.) To cut the long story short, the
Protestants won this theological battle. The
enlightenment thinkers repeated this Protestant story,
and this has become our ‘secularism’.

1.2.3. The same story applies with respect to what is
enshrined in the UN charter. The doctrine of Human
Rights (as we know them today) arose in the Middle
Ages, when the Franciscans and the Dominicans fought
each other. (Both are religious orders within the
Catholic Church.) All theories of human rights we know
today were elaborated in this struggle that continued
nearly for two hundred years. They were *theological*
debates, to understand which one needs to understand
Christian theology. (Just take my word for it for
now.) When John Locke (a British philosopher) started
talking about ‘Natural Rights’ in the 18th century, he
was simply regurgitating a theological debate within
Christianity.

1.2.4. I am not merely making the point that these
ideas had their origin in religious contexts. My point
is much more than that: I claim that *we cannot accept
these theories without, at the same time, accepting
Christian theology as true.* What the western thinkers
have done over the centuries (the Enlightenment period
is the best known for being the ‘high point’ of this
process) is to *dress up* Christian theological ideas
(I am blurring the distinction between the divisions
within Christianity) in a secular mantle. Not just
this or that isolated idea, but theological theories
themselves.

1.2.5. I am not in the least suggesting that this is
some kind of a *conspiracy*. I am merely explicating
what I mean when I say that Christianity spreads also
through the process of *secularisation*. What has been
secularised are whole sets of ideas about Man and
Society which I call ‘Biblical themes ’. They are
Biblical themes because to accept them is to accept
the truth of the Bible. Most of our so-called ‘social
sciences’ *assume* the truth of these Biblical themes.


1.2.6. I know this sounds *unbelievable*; but I have
started to prove them. I have already shown, for
example, that the so-called religious studies
presuppose the truth of Christian theology. That is
why, when they study the so-called ‘religions’ from
other cultures, their results do not fundamentally
differ from a theological treatment of the same
religions. In the book I am now writing on ethics, I
am able to show the same: the so-called secular ethics
are ‘secularisations’ of Christian ethics. That is
why, according to the modern ‘secular’ ethics, we are
either ‘immoral’ or ‘moral cretins’. According to the
Christianity, only the ‘true’ religion can provide a
foundation for ethical behaviour: the Heathens and the
Pagans, because they worship the Devil, are either
immoral or intellectually weak. Even in psychology,
the n otion of the development of ‘person’ (or ‘self’)
is a non-trivial secularisation of the Christian
notion of ‘soul’. So I can go on, but I will not.
Instead of convincing you, such a list might end up
generating disbelief.

1.3. To begin to appreciate the *plausibility* (if not
the truth) of my claim, ask yourselves the following
question: why are the so-called ‘social sciences’
different from the natural sciences? I mean to say,
why have the social sciences not developed the way
natural sciences have? There must have been many
geniuses in the social sciences; the mathematical and
logical sophistication in some of the social sciences
is simply mind-bending; we have computers and we can
simulate almost any thing. Comparatively speaking, it
is not as though the social sciences are starved of
funding or personnel. Despite all this, the social
sciences are not progressing. Why is this? (When you
have, say, a problem in a love-relationship, you do
not open a text book on psychology; you look for a w
ise friend or an understanding uncle.) There are many
answers provided in the history of philosophy and many
of you may have your own ‘favourite’ explanation. Here
is my answer: you cannot build a scientific theory
based on theological assumptions. What you will get
then is *not* a scientific theory, but an embroidering
of theology. I put to you that this is what has
happened. Most of our so-called social sciences are
not ‘sciences’ in any sense of the term: they are
merely bad Christian theologies.

1.4. If this is true, it also helps us understand why
both ‘conversion’ and the notion of ‘secularism’ jars
Indian sensibilities. Somehow or the other, Nehruvian
‘secularism’ always connotes a denigration of Indian
traditions; if you look at the debates in the EPW and
SEMINAR and journals like that, one thing is very
clear: none of the participants really understands
what ‘secularism’ means. In India, ‘secularism’ is
counter posed to ‘communalism’; whereas ‘the secular’,
in European languages, has only one contrast: ‘the
sacred’. Now, of course, I do not want to make much
out of this; but I thought that it would be
interesting to draw your attention to this interesting
fact.

1.5. To summarize what I have said so far.
Christianity spreads in two ways: through conversion
and through secularisation. The modern day social
sciences embody the assumptions of Christian theology,
albeit in a ‘secularised’ form. That is why when Wendy
and her children draw upon the resources of the
existing social sciences, they are drawing upon
Christian theology. In this Christian theology, we are
worshippers of the Devil. Our gods are demons
(followers of the devil). As such, amongst other
things, they are perverts: sexually, morally and
intellectually. The worshippers of the Devil (which is
what we are) are also perverts: why otherwise would we
follow the Devil or his minions? Even if Indologists
and Brown Sahibs children *oppose* a straightforward
Christian understanding openly (because of their
*genuine* conviction), their *conclusions* are no
different from the simplistic story I have just
sketched. How can they be driven to embrace Christian
theology, even when they either openly reject it or
when they know nothing of it? This will be one of the
questions I will take up in my future posts, assuming
that people remain interested.

1.6. This is the insidious process I talked about in
my previous mail: the process of secularisation of
Christian ideas. I have not been able to do justice to
the richness of this process: an inevitable price one
pays for condensing complex analyses into short posts.
Let the ‘simplistic’ presentation not lead you to
think that the ideas I am proposing are ‘simplistic’.
They are not.

1.7. Why do we, the Indian intellectuals, not see this
secularisation straight away? Why is the process of
secularisation not visible to the western
intellectuals? These are some of the obvious questions


2. What should we be doing?

A way, the answer can be provided in a single
sentence: the research questions and the research
framework of many-a-social science were set up
*explicitly * by Christian theologians using the
resources of Christian theology. (I am using
‘theology’ as a general term here.) Both the questions
and answers have retained their intelligibility, even
though the ‘explicit’ theology has faded *into the
background*. A theological question does not cease to
be theological just because the one who answers it
does not know much about theology. The very fact that
such questions *make sense at all* (and do not appear
nonsensical) is the *proof* of the fact that the
questioner remains within the ambit of a religious
framework. (If you have no clue about Physics, the
question ‘when does some stellar object become a
quasar?’ will not ma ke much sense. To answer it, if
you can answer it at all, you need to draw upon the
resources of theories in Physics.) However, this
single sentence answer fails to capture the complexity
and diversity of the process. Therefore, let me just
*illustrate* what this process really means, or has
meant. (I will be taking random examples, and of
different *kinds* just to *indicate* the depth of the
process. If one intends doing more than this, one will
have to write umpteen books!)

2.1. Consider, to begin with, the very notion ‘the
west’ or ‘the western culture’. During the first 800
years (after the year 300 C.E. - ‘Common Era’, which
replaces AD that meant the year of the Lord, Anno
Domini), it was ‘Eastern Christianity’ (i.e. the
Christianity of the Byzantine Empire with its centre
in Constantinople) that dominated the Christian
communities. The Church in Rome was merely one of the
churches within Christianity. The ‘evangelization’ of
Europe really begins in earnest after 900 C.E. This
was a pro cess launched by the Church in Rome, and it
occurred in areas to ‘the west’ of Rome. For this
reason, this Christianity came to be called ‘Western
Christianity’ and the emergence of this Christendom to
the west of Rome is the emergence of ‘the West’.

3.2. Consider these two famous research questions
about the ‘transition’ in history (of both the
‘leftist’ and the ‘rightist’ variety): when and how
did transition from ‘slavery’ to ‘feudalism’ occur in
Europe? This issue was discussed by theologians and
theological historians for a long time in the
following form: how did Christianity put an end to the
Pagan Rome? The historians discussed precisely this
issue, and in this form, till the end of the
eighteenth century as well. The division they made
between ‘epochs’ (a word coined by a French Christian
Priest called Bossuet during the 18th century) was the
one between pre-Christian (pagan) Rome and the
post-Christian Rome. The very same issue, with the
*very same* division has now become a ‘scient ific’
question in the guise of: how did feudalism put paid
to slavery? The same can be said about another
transition question that bothers Marxist historians:
how did feudalism (an ‘epoch’ of social production)
give way to Capitalism in ‘the West’? Do you know what
this question is a complex translation of? ‘Why did
the Protestant reformation against the Catholic Church
gain foothold?’

2.3. Consider the emergence of the Legal System in the
western culture. Its origin does not lie in the Roman
Law but in the Church. The theologians of the Roman
Catholic Church *turned* to the Roman jurists in their
attempts to build a legal structure for the Church.
(This is called the famous ‘Gregorian reformation’ of
the Catholic Church.) Thus a complex system of laws
and *their justifications* (including terms that are
fundamental to the modern jurisprudence) arose, called
‘The Canon Law’. The ‘Civil Law’ (using this as a
general term) was built by *the theologians* by
modelling it after the Canon Law. Till the 18th
century, ‘the faculty of law’ was a part of the
‘faculty of theology’ in the western universities and
taught *only by theologians.* To this day, in many
universities in Europe this theological heritage is
still maintained in the way the law faculties are
called: ‘Rechtenfaculteit’ (‘Rechten’ is the plural of
‘Das Recht’), referring to the two laws - the canon
law and civil law.

2.4. Consider too, for example, one of the notions
fundamental to Modern Jurisprudence: ‘will’. There
have been umpteen discussions about this notion in
Philosophy, Law, Psychology, etc. Clearly, or so we
think, human beings have a will and exercise it as
well. What is the origin of this picture of human
beings? Till 300 B.C.E. this notion was ‘absent’ in
what we call the western culture today. Neither the
Greek thinkers (like Plato or Aristotle), nor the
Roman jurists (who wrote their law digests) had such a
notion or such a picture of human beings. The first
person to struggle with this notion and write tra cts
about it was Saint Augustine, one of the most
influential Fathers of the Christian Church. Why did
the Christians find this notion important? Because,
they think, the universe exemplifies the Will of God
and human beings should subordinate themselves to this
Will. That is to say, the human will must subordinate
itself to the divine will. What is human ‘will’ then?
What does this subordination consist of? These and
many similar questions arose *within* the ambit of
Christian theology, presupposing a Christian picture
of Man. (A picture that was neither Greek nor Roman,
and is definitely not Indian.) Yet, how many of us do
not practice Law, read and write about human will and
even assume *as an empirical fact* that it is in the
nature of being human that we have will? (This is no
*fact*, but a Christian theological picture of man.)

2.5. Take, as another kind of an example, the issue of
‘freedom’. This issue is a central one in Philosophy,
in moral theories, in political theories (about Stat e
and society), in legal theories, and psychological
theories, etc. If you were to blandly state this issue
in a single sentence: it is a good thing that people
are ‘free’ and that every one ‘ought’ to be ‘free’. In
ethical theories, for instance, a moral action is an
action of choice, made freely without coercion. In
fact, in the absence of ‘freedom’ morality is not
possible. Let me just draw a contrast between this way
of thinking (which appears to be true on the basis of
‘universal consent’) and our ideas about ‘karma’ and
‘rebirth’. (You need not assume the ‘truth’ of
*punarjanma* in order to follow my point.) If the
fruits of one’s action do not track (very strictly)
the agent across several lives, the idea of both
‘Karma’ and ‘rebirth’ become senseless. Somehow or the
other, these notions are parts of our (i.e. Indian)
understanding of morality. That means to say, if there
was no binding and strict *determinism*, ethics is
impossible. Here, then, the contrast: according to the
western culture , moral action is impossible if it is
not ‘free’; according to us, without strict
determinism, moral action is impossible. Yet, how many
of us do not act as though ‘freedom’ is a
‘self-explanatory’ concept? Do you know what the
origins (it has multiple theological loci) of this
problem are? God created Man and gave him the
‘freedom’ to choose between God and the Devil. (In
secularised terms, between ‘good’ and ‘evil’.) The
possibility of ‘salvation’ (i.e. of being ‘saved’ from
the clutches of the Devil) depended on this ‘free
choice’. Therefore, theological issues arose: What
then does ‘human freedom’ mean? Why did God give
‘freedom’ to man? Are we ‘condemned’ to be ‘free’?
etc. etc. Our *svatantra* does not mean ‘freedom’ as
its contrast term *paratantra* indicates. Our ‘gods’
are *sarva tantra svatantara*, i.e. beings for whom
all *tantras* are their ‘own’ (sva). What exactly are
we doing then, when we discuss about a ‘free society’,
‘freedom’ of individuals, etc, etc?

2.6. Instead of carrying on in this vein let me round
off in a different way. Fundamental to Christianity is
its belief that there ‘ought’ to be scriptural
sanction for actions in the world. In other words,
this religion makes one seek scriptural foundations
for one’s actions (whether for ‘sacred’ ones like
‘worshipping’ or to ‘secular’ ones like the attitude
one should take regarding ‘strangers’ ). The scripture
is one kind of ‘revelation’ of God’s will; the Nature
also reveals God’s Will. One studies both in order to
find out what God Wills so that one may become a part
of God’s purposes (for human kind) on earth. The
Church, as a social organism, confronted many social
and political problems during its history. Whether it
was a revolt of the peasants, or a fight with the
monarchs about the nature of political authority,
these phenomena were conceptualised as problems within
theology. That is to say, both the way the Church
formulated the problem and its responses were founded
on the scriptures (and the writings of t he church
fathers). The problem of state and society, the limits
of political power, etc. were actual issues that the
Church confronted. The way it formulated these issues
and the kind of answers it sought, etc. were
theological in nature. These very same questions and
answers (and the underlying framework) have been taken
over by the so-called social sciences. So, when they
further go on along this track, all they are doing is
further embroider Christian theology. No matter what
they *think* they are doing, they *are not doing
science*. Even when they speak of things that become
totally *nonsensical*, if and when *explicit theology*
is left out, they continue to talk as though it makes
sense.

For an example of this sort, take the notion of
‘polytheism’ that anthropology of religion,
practitioners of ‘religious studies’, sociologists,
etc. use. This notion is *contradictio in teminis*,
that is to say, it is internally contradictory.
‘Polytheism’ refers to a doctrine that countenances
multiple ‘gods’. What does it mean to speak of
multiple ‘gods’? It is to say that there is more than
one ‘God’. (There must be at least two). However, who
or what is ‘God’ that there may be more than one? If,
in order to answer this question, one refers to the
meaning of this word, unsurprisingly it turns out, the
dictionary meaning is also the meaning of Christian
religion. Amongst other things, ‘God’ is the creator
of the universe. If this is what God means, there
cannot be more than one ‘God’. (How can one make sense
of the statement that there are multiple ‘creators’,
when ‘God’ refers to that being which created the
Universe?) How, then, can one speak of ‘polytheism’?
Only if one *assumes* that there is one ‘God’ and some
several other creatures who are *other* than this
‘God’ and yet claim the status of ‘godhood’. The claim
of such creatures *must* be false: because the very
definition of ‘God’ attributes this status to only one
entity. Or, there must be one ‘true’ God, and many
‘false’ gods, who a re different from and other than
the True One. This is precisely what Christian
theology says: there is but one ‘true’ God, and there
are many ‘false’ gods (the Devil and his minions). A
‘Polytheist’, then, worships these multiple ‘gods’
(and not the True One). That is to say, a polytheist
is a ‘heathen’ who worships the devil. This is what
Christianity said of the Roman religions, the Greek
religions, the Indian ‘religions’, etc. How is it
possible that ‘scientific’ studies take over the word
‘polytheism’ and blithely use it without *recognising*
that it is senseless to do so without assuming the
*truth* of Christian theology?

2.7. What I am saying, in other words, is that the
western intellectuals are blind to secularised
theology, because that is all they know. This is their
tool, and they have no other. Only when we develop
*alternate* manners of theorising about Man and
Society will they too be able to see the theological
nature of their thinking. Until such stage, all they
can do is to ridicule the suggestion that they are
merely embroidering theology.

2.8. The process of secularisation of Christianity is
complex, rich and varied. In each of the domains I
have researched, the form of secularisation of
theology has been different. The routes travelled have
been varied: but the results have been the same. Bu
this should not transform my suggestion into a mantra.
We need to plot out the rich and varied contours of
the process of secularising of Christianity. When we
do so, we will truly be initiating a revolution in
human thinking: at last, one can begin to speak in
terms of the *sciences* of the social. Until such
stage, all we have are bad Christian theologies
*masquerading* as ‘social sciences’.

3.Thus far we have seen that the western
representations of India do not so much express the
perfidious intentions (or subconscious desires) of the
writers as much as the secularised Christian theology
that guides research. If this is true, there arise
other questions that beg clarification: what, then,
could we say about the *Indian* writings in Indology,
sociology, etc? Are the Indian writers too not
influenced, whether directly or indirectly, by the
very same ‘theories’ that incorporate the secularised
Christian theology? If they are, surely, there will be
but a thin dividing line between the Indian
representations of India and the western ones. If they
are not, how could *they* be impervious to and
unaffected by secularised Christian theories, while
their western colleagues are? Despite the *enormous*
importance of this theme, I shall leave it aside for
now: as indicated in my previous post, other occasions
are going to present themselves where such reflections
will be in their place.

In explaining the obliviousness of western thinkers to
their acceptance of secularised theology, I suggested
that only when we present *alternate* ways of
describing the world could they gain insight to the
theological nature of their endeavour. If this
diagnosis stands up to scrutiny, our task is also
clear: start working towards the goal of building such
theories. In the last two decades, I have come to the
realisation that there is far *more* to this task than
is apparent at first sight. My ideas on this matter
have evolved not only by studying histories and
sociologies of science (about how theories grow, get
propagated and get accepted) but also by appreciating
the complexity of the task while trying to carry it
out. In this subsection, I want to share some of my
thoughts on this subject.

3.1. Let me begin by picking up an obvious question:
Why should we be bothered to carry this task out (and
all that it entails) at all? Of course, no one is or
can ever be *compelled* to carry this task out. Yet,
there is a partial answer that can go some way in
meeting the *real concern* behind this problem.
*Because of reasons of space*, let me make talk about
Indian culture as an entity and about its experiments
to provide some semblance of an answer.

3.2. Imagine, if you will, that Indian culture is an
entity and that all Indians are its members. Imagine
too that one day, it realised that it was not sure any
more about the nature of the world it inhabited: What
should it be doing? What is its place? How should it
adapt? What does adaptation consist of? The only way
it can ever find answers to these questions is through
experimentation: trying out this or that strategy,
growing new things as and when needed. Only its
members can help of help; they are the ones to
experiment with. Let us agree not to ask further
questions about how this culture came to this
realisation and that we do not dispute about dating
this even t: India’s independence from the British.
Thus, this entity, the Indian culture, takes to
*massive experimentation* telescoping, in this
process, events of many decades elsewhere into a
single decade (and sometimes even less) in its
history. Let us chronicle these experiments.

First, it takes to ‘socialism’: ‘Nehruvian’ socialism,
the socialism of Lohia, the socialist attempts of the
communist parties of India. Just as these experiments
take-off, this culture starts exploring *their limits*
even before a new generation is born: the Naxalites
and the ML movement in Bengal impact India’s youth in
different parts of India and both socialisms (of Lohia
and of Nehru) begin to crack under the pressure of
events even as, in the late 60’s, people elsewhere in
the world begin to discover ‘student power’. Many
activist youth groups emerge in different parts of
India, born outside the existing left, but already
radicalised. Just as these groups appeared to run out
of steam, the Indian culture paused, and as though
considering, plunges into another massive
experimentation: ‘Dalit’ movement, ‘secessionist’
movements, which pits not the bourgeoisies against the
proletariat but groups against each other. Even as
these impact the culture, through ‘reservation
policies’ and contraction of the living space for some
of India’s children, a new experimentation begins: it
is time for *ratha yatra* and Babri Masjid. This
experimentation still continues and as it does, this
entity launches yet another with no parallels in human
history: the Indian culture sends two or more millions
of its members to America. This is no exodus, much
less of an exile, even if these members insist on
speaking of the ‘Diaspora’.

3.3. What has Indian culture found out through all
these experiments? Some of India’s children still
continue with these experiments; some have ceased
doing so. This means either some answers are no
answers at all or at best, partial ones. Is India
‘socialist’? Or is she the proletariat? Or, perha ps,
the landless peasant? Is she the ‘Dalit’, or merely
the ‘woman’? Has she always been a Sikh, a Tamil or a
Marathi, and never a single entity? Is she a ‘Hindu’,
a Muslim or merely ‘secular’?

India, it appears, has been interrogating herself
through all these experiments: who is she? This is no
third-rate ‘identity politics’ of the post-colonials
taught in Chicago or Columbia, but the strivings of a
culture. We, her children, express this striving as
well. Whatever our individual motives, whatever our
individual biographies, today, on this thread, we too
are asking the same question: what is it to be an
Indian?

3.4. Much like her, we cannot reject the past: without
it, we are not who we are any more. Nor could we turn
our back to the present: that is where we have to
live. Our cultural past must be made to talk in the
language of the present: that, I have discovered, is
the task for the future. At this moment, however, we
need to become aware that we are asking this question
and that the answer *matters* to each one of us. That
is why we should be bothered about carrying out the
task I spoke of.

What is involved in accomplishing this task? Here too
the answer is simple: *a collective effort*. What does
such an effort entail? Not being a strategist like
either Rajiv or Arjun Bhagat, I can only share the
results of my reflections on my experience in pursuing
this task for nearly two decades now.

3.5. The first step, quite obviously, calls for
spreading awareness about the nature of western
representations of India. This entails that we find
(a) *people* willing not only to challenge the western
‘scholars’, where and when they give talks in public
forums about India etc. but also (b) *speakers* from
the Indian community in the US, who try actively to
*supplant* these ‘scholars’.

This requires that such speakers are continuously fed
with literature of two sorts: (a) a debunking kind;
and (b) the sort which provides new and novel
conceptualisations of many as pects of the Indian
culture itself.

This suggests that a serious and systematic research
must be undertaken by many different people on many
different themes. My knowledge of the intellectual
scene tells me that there are very few such people.
So, one has to look at *recruiting* younger, gifted
people into doing research.

For this to happen, we need three things: (a) an
intellectual visibility and respectability for this
kind of research so that fine, younger minds are
attracted: (b) a reward system that makes it
worthwhile for them to pursue such a research for a
decade at least; (c) a *training* in not only doing
such research, but also help in publishing them in
highly visible journals so that they can then go on to
populate chairs in the academia.

3.6. Parallel to doing all these, there is also the
mammoth task of planting these seeds in the Indian
soil itself. In order to appreciate the complexity of
this task, we need to have some answers I raised in
the first paragraph. Let us, therefore, leave this
aspect of the enterprise out of this post for the
moment.

3.7. If these things are to happen at all, it is
obvious that we need an *organisation*. Only such an
entity can formulate such long term plans, translate
them into viable strategies, and pursue them
systematically.

3.8. Can this be done? I personally believe so. Even
on this thread(cf: some humanties discussion group),
based purely on the evidence of their interventions,
we have the kind of brains we need: people who can
strategise; those can build organisations: those who
can raise finances; those who can go straight to the
heart of a problem and represent it in simple terms;
based on little material, those who anticipate and
formulate central questions for enquiry; and, above
all, an interested and concerned audience. (For each
of these, I can cite the posts and give reasons why I
think so. For the latter, you need merely see the hits
on this web-page. But that would be overkill, I
think.)


3.9. India, today, is at a cross-road: she has been in
many such cross-roads in the past, and she will be in
many more in the future. Neither is relevant to us,
because we can make a *difference* only to this one.
We have the persons. We have the brains. We have the
talents. We have the en ergy. We have the money. We
have the instruments, the knowledge and the abilities.
We have the capacity to create the know-how as we work
on the project. What more do we need?

I think our culture is going to see a renaissance.
Such a renaissance will be of importance not just to
us, Indians, but to the entire humankind. Because it
is going to lay the real foundations for the sciences
of the social and thus give a surprising answer to the
question, ‘what is to be an Indian?’ This process is
going to take place: sooner, if we can accelerate the
pace; later, if we do nothing about it. In the latter
case, that event may not happen in your lifetime or
mine; but happen it shall. Of this, I am utterly
convinced. It is this conviction that has kept me
going all these years; it is the same conviction that
has made me want to reach out to those of you who have
followed this discussion.
------------------ilioio------------------------------
Secular Historians: Fear of Engineering, Numbers, Logic, and NRI-s Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2729 of 36505 < Prev | Next >
For those who have time to ponder, Read the following
intersting articles by R. Srinivaasan located at

1. Fear of Engineering

http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/nov/01rajeev.htm

2. Fear of NRIs, fear of numbers, fear of logic

http://www.rediff.com/news/2002/nov/02rajeev.htm

Best Regards,
VR
---------jklkl-------------
Severe Winter in India - Global Warming, Ye? Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2709 of 36505 < Prev | Next >
It looks like the effect of global warming - which is
going to produce extreme weathers, is coming to be
true. North India is experiencing a very severe
winter. Many have died.

Some researchers in India pointing that these
variations(climatic) are due to El Nino[1] Southern
Oscillation.

I see "global warming" as just politico-religious talk

hijacked by non-scientists. It seems to me that
man-made or other atmospheric changes are effects
rooted in the astronomical cycles. At the material
level certain changes follow these cycles, at "mind"
level too similar changes follow.

Root of "global warming" debate is East-West conflict
of cultures. East wants to reduce man's abuse of
nature, and spread more compassion instead. For
Secular West and Christianity NATURE and WOMEN are
made for men by God - it is so sanctioned by Bible.
Hence Japan and USA are on opposing sides.

Sindhu Saraswati Valley Civilization [2] fell due to
urban exploitation etc.

How about Glaciers effect on great maaya, Inkan
civilizations.

How does our information technology(elite science and
engg insts are succumbed to this IT and thermodynamics
in 18th cent) helps Global Warming/Cooling. Does it
really help beyond super simulations.

In other words, How come poly bound machines are
capable of simulating exponential natural cycles.

Or, Are we just simulating based on sedimental
analysis, past 100 years history of weather
variations.

Computers wont help us out, unless there is
advancement in our understanding of
nature/universe(basic sciences.)

In waht way, the 18th century Thermodynamics
evolution(industrial evolution in the west, thus
automobiles, green house effects) contributed to Human
happiness.

Let us hope that Bill Gates, electronic centric
alliance of Univ-s help our humanity:P

Interested members, can look at the following article
appeared in the commie daily, The Hindu:

An ecological view of ancient India by Frawley-

http://www.hinduonnet.com/op/2003/01/21/stories/2003012100110200.htm


Refs:
[1] For more on El Nino, http://www.elnino.noaa.gov/
[2] SSVC, http://www.hindunet.org/saraswati


Regards,
VR
----opp-------------
Manu Samhita etc... Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2710 of 36505 < Prev | Next >
Learned members:

Firstly, I apologize for posting very long mail. I
would hereby request you to delete this email, if you
are not intersted to read. Otherwise, you can read
this in your leisure time. No rantings such as why the
heck you flooded my mail box, Please!


Somehow, we ended up with tangential discussion on
Manusamhita(MS).

Let me state few things about MS etc, which
distinguish stereotype versions of secular[1], and
psec[2] scum bags.

1. The 4 varnas, i.e., temparaments of manas, are due
to satva (braahmaNa), satva-rajas mix (kshatriya),
rajas-tamas mix (vaishya), and tamas (shudra). This is
the well accepted view of Adi Shankara(ca. 500 BC) and
others before and after him. The 3 guNas - satva,
rajas, tamas - manifest from Aananda which itself is
manifested from the Ultimate Reality. So, varnas are
natural, not man-made, and can not be erased by
humans. Varna does not mean the color of skin,
although that is how it was and is seen by asuri minds
(such as racist Europeans and Christian missionaries,
and their universal variants in India thru
de-christianized process).Instead, it is a way of
analyzing the mind itself. Mind and conquering mind
has been and is the sole task in our culture (to reach
beyond it the Ultimate Reality from which the mind is
manifest). So, the economic model of 3 classes
etc.(This is what I hear from English educated Hindu
tribe- that Software engineer is a brahmin, farmer is
a shUdra. It is another kinda bsing by colonized
hindu-s)and comparing it to the 4 varnas can only be
from some ignorance of the Vedic culture.


1a. Whatever bhAhmaNa means these days - there is none

on the planet except by jaati. All such
distinctions(chaturvarna-s, varnaashrama, ashrama
dharma-s) have vanished by the time of mahABhArata
war(3067 BCE) - varNa sankara was quite total by then,
as it is now. Now everybody is either a mlenchcha or a
vrAtya (not even a shUdra, dont be proud of shUdra:-))
by conduct - all over the globe.

1b. I am not even a shUdra at all. Probably, one can
attribute it as my jaati.

1c. There were and are arrogant people in every
community. I knew few people in brahmana jaati, who
are damn arrogant, and they dont know the gist of
shaastra-s. But that does not negate Veda mantra
imports, which gives equal status by birth. Forget
those colonised hindu stereo types in this regard.

2. Eating with spoon and fork is better culture! This
is really some astonishing claim made by these
seculars, colonized hindu-s, Anglicised hindu-s, and
Westernised hindu-s . For a Hindu, eating is also
puja, it is also a sacred act, all 5 jnaanedriyas
should be involved in this puja (like any other puja).
Hence we touch and feel the food (which is also
Brahman - Annam para brahmam swarupam), smell it, see
it fully, and get 50% of its experience before it even
gets to our tongue! Thus the whole mind is called upon
accepting the food through the karmendriyas and the
gnaanendriyas. Then only the food shall nourish the
eater fully and completely. All the while we keep in
mind that eating food is also Brahma-yajna - to reach
that state of Godliness. Shareeramaadyam khalu
Dharmasaadhanam. That is why we eat in the first
place. In light of this Vedic understanding, eating
with spoons/forks while thinking it as meeting our
hunger in the stomach (as is in the Western culture)
is not culture (samskr`ti) at all. Samskr`ti is that
which takes its practitioner to That(indescribable)
(Tat tvam asi).

3.Purity - Hindu lifestyle's stress on purity is at
three levels: physical, verbal, and mental. This is
one of the "NIYAMA"s of Yoga. And it, like the other 4
niyamas, is applied in one's own personal conduct and
NOT in relation to others in the society. Ignorants
mixed it up for interactions in the society also
(those rules are the "YAMA"s). Muslim and Christian
invasions led to solidify this distortion further.
Brahmacharya is one of the "yama"s - i.e., it is
seeing and walking and living in the Brahman around in
our social interactions. Ignorants (like Gandhiji, no
offence please!) mixed it up to personal conduct. So,
now brahmacharya has become a "niyama" and "shaucha"
(purity) has become a "yama" - just 180 degree
distortion of Vedic & Hindu culture. We, the
colonised, immersed in such deep distortion.

4.The goal of samskr`ti is to take its practitioner to
reach the Changeless. So, the secular historians's
argument that to change is the litmus test of a
winning culture is just shallow and misleading. Scores
of R`shis and sages have indicated that, if we were to
have happiness in our personal and social life,
saadhaaraNa Dharma should never change with time and
place(desha and kaala), because, it has the very
features of Almighty we want to become (these are the
yama-niyama features of Yoga: satya, ahimsa, aasteya,
aparigraha, shaucha, santosha, tapas, swaadhyaaya,
Ishwara praaniDhaana). What changes with time and
place is the yuga Dharma or the vishesha Dharma. The
former is sanaatana, the latter subject to change as
long as it remians within the bounds of sanaatana
Dharma (i.e., in other words, the Vedas). Again, which
part changes with time at a given place? The seasons
and the weather! Which changes with place at a given
time? The weather only. Thus, desha-kaala adjustments
mean only adjusting our lifestyle (& therefore our
culture) to the weather only, and not to the asuri
whims of the prevailing society. We must not miss this
clarity of walking on Dharma and must not mix change
of desha-kaala adjustment to adjusting or compromising
to an asuri culture.

5. This point is about Manu. These scum bags seem to
have gotten carried away by reading some English
translations of the so-called Manusmr`ti. In our
ancient texts, there is no reference to "Manusmr`ti"
but "Manu Samhita" is mentioned. So, calling it as
"Manusmr`ti" itself is a distortion. Now, Manu Samhita
clearly states that it is detailing the prevailing
social conditions and customs in various "countries
(desha-s)" in Bharatavarsha. Nowhere does it (or Manu)
state that these are the rules promulgated by Manu,
although English translators state so for meeting
their obvious objectives of creating social divisions
and destruction of the ancient culture. It is also
known from pre-British texts written by native
scholars (SaayaNa and before him) that Manu Samhita
was much more ancient than SHRI RAAMA. Again, we heard
thru these stereotypes, that MS forbids sea travel.
But Shri Rama crossed the seas! So, this distortion by
the later native as well as Western writers (that Manu
forbade sea-travel, caste mixing, etc.) got ingrained
in the society through the very distorted "education"
systems. These seculars are simply adhering to these
distortions and wrongly propagating them as
promulgated by Manu. It is a sad level of ignorance of
the current day English educated Hindu. Such a
namesake Hindu should sit and learn at the feet of any
native Bharatiya scholar, uneducated in Englih but
thoroughly soaked in Samskr`ta and our ancient texts,
about Manu Samhita, the Vedas, and the Geeta. There is
not a shred of contradiction in these three basic
scriprutes of the Hindus. Learn and master Samskr`tam,
read the original texts, and prove me wrong.

6. On statues, deities, icons, etc.:- Hindu worship
uses none of these. Hindus worship vigrahas or
murthis. There is a ton of conceptual difference
between vigraha/murthi and statue. We have statues of
Shivaji or Gandhiji or Ambedkarji. But unless any
statue is properly (according to Vedic method)
consecrated, it is not puja material to invoke the
Invisible in it. Hindus may respect statues or icons
or idols, but they never worship one as such. They
worship the invisible Almighty in the form of vigrahas
or murthis. The Semitic/Abrahamic mind will never
understand our ways as long as we use words such as
statues to mis-describe vigrahas.

7. On Swayamvara: There is little evidence of
swayamvara form of marriage as the widespread method
of marriage in Bharatavarsha at any time it in her
past history. It was prominent among the kshatriyas
only, and there were a tiny minority. The society in
general followed aarsha form of marriage, which is
widespread even today. Braahma, asuri, paishaacha,
etc. forms of marriages were also there but they were
rarities in the wider social sense. Aarsha marriage to
girls is stipulated only after schooling (gurukula in
those days) and puberty.

8. As per parashara smr`ti, manusamhita was the Dharma
shAstra in use in the kr`ta yuga, that of GAUTAMA was
in the trEtA, and that of shanKha-liKhita was in the
dvApara; the parAshara smr`ti itself was for the
kaliyuga [3]. Traditions all over India hold this
parAshara as the father of kr`iSNadvaipAyana, the
author of the mahABhArata text and witness to the
great BhArata war. MS is older than Shri Rama(ca. 5000
BC). The MS internal references to
Saraswati-Dr`shadvati rivers area as the center of
Vedic culture [4], Ashrama and varNAshrama Dharma-s as
the social norms, references to various Rishi
authorities [5], and names of jAti-s resulting from
varNa mixing [6] outlined in MS establish it to have,
in one form or other resembling the present textual
versions, existed well before the drying up of the
Saraswati river and the subsequent socio-cultural
transformations in post-mahABhArata India.
Furthermore, references to MS were quoted in the
mahABhArata text itself [7]. I find that the many
claims of Western or westernized scholars that this is
all recent interpolation are mere hand waving opinions
without any scientific proof, and thus are invalid.

9. Words such as kalpa, vikalpa, sr`Sti, pralaya,
sarga, visarga, etc. were loosely used and original
imports of MS were lost to almost all later scholars
who, we feel with certain convictions, made shAstra-s
out of purANa-s. Many of these mix-ups and errors may
be cleared with proper contextual meanings of such
words. As an illustration, consider the words sr`Sti
and pralaya. They come from the root words sr` and li
that mean to project and to melt/dissolve,
respectively.

10. By traditional accounts, MS precedes current
purANa versions. Most practicing pandiTa-s in India
attest that its usage dates at least to the last kr`ta
yuga. The style, content, social and legal scenes,
etc., contained in MS also suggest that it predates
the gupta period (believed to be the time of last
compilations of the present versions of the purANa-s).
Its social scene closely resembles that of vAlmIki’s
rAmAyaNa wherein too the social groups over
BharatavarSa lived by varNa-Ashrama and Ashrama
Dharma-s. Also, India’s tradition holds that
parAshara’s son kr`SNadvaipAyana of Veda and purANa
compilations lived much later to the last kr`ta yuga,
in the last dvApara end.


11. On technical matters, only shAstra-s were
authority. When shAstra-s differed or disagreed on any
point, the final authority was shruti - the Veda
samhita mantra-s [8], for example, Pls. see [9], since
the brAhmaNa-s and shAstra-s were based on shruti
only.

12. That Vedic notions are Germanic is the rubbish
18th century primitive Europeans wrote about - without
really mastering or practicing the Veda-s or Samskr`ta
or yoga! Their entire thesis was to establish that a
warring tribe they called "ARYANS" from Eurasia
invaded (now it is changed to 'migrated') to India &
the pre-Vedic Haarappa fell. Then their priests sat
under the trees and "wrote" poems called Veda-s!(Some
colonised hindu proponents of Veda-s claim that Veda-s
are compositions. This is utterly wrong) Samskr`ta (&
their Euro languages) came from another mother
language termed by these imaginatives as some lost
Indo-European language. No trace whatsoever of that
language exists! That is amazing! Herein lie the
fantastic imaginations, not in Indian philosophy!

13. New scientific discoveries have proved beyond any
doubt that Harappa was 100% Vedic, it was spread all
over the now sunken Saraswati river banks - from
Punjab through Gujarat some 6-7,000 years ago. And our
pitiably ignorant secular thugs who most probably
knows not a cent of Samskr`ta or Veda or latest
research findings is dishing out the same chewed up
rubbish with some "I know better than thou" complex,
that is all. The 18th century European primitives were
full of such complex. These seculars are merely
copying the same shit chewed by their colonial
masters.

14. Actually, Vedas-s are very very clear on the
primal cause of the universe. 80% of current Samskr`ta
words are in the Veda-s, and Veda-s go to lot of
extent using every word to describe That One
Indescribable permeating everything indivisibly and
completely. However, all secondary or tertiary or
later causes are not directly from That but from
physical laws that were set in motion during creation.

15. These secular, psecular, colonial and colonised
asura-s have no interest in seeking their or anyone's
happiness(everlasting happiness, moksha exists verily
in this world, not after death), their sole aim is to
show to the world that the Aristotelian logic, utterly
skewed and incomplete by itself, is all there is for
the salvation of mankind - Hitler & Gobel were the
same in another form, and the Germanic trash has had
this trait most strongly all along in its history. It
is this asuri fact that won't go away that soon, but
it will certainly go away in time, just as all past.

16. Members in this group may want to know this
background: The god of the so-called Euro-linguistics,
and secular historians in India, Maxmuller, got a
smattering of sorts in Samskr`tam(that, which is
perfect) by reading the notes of a puny lawyer (not
scholar of any sorts) called Bill Jones, an employee
of East India Company paid from India's robbed wealth,
who learnt slipshod Samskr`ta by bribing Pandits
(using the robbed wealth) in Kalkotta in 1750's. And
they, knowing the British designs to trash India in
every light, intentionally taught this puny Jones the
most wrong notions imaginable. Jones himself cried
foul about this, he had written so, but that was the
father figure of this great Emperor in New Clothes,
called Indology, with its linguistics as its
inseparable queen. For the 18th century primitive
Europeans ONLY whose Greeco-Roman ancestors(esp.
Christologists appropriated their greeco-roman pagans
history as theirs) indeed saw a flat fixed earth at
the center of the universe, and a Sun going around
their Sparta, Athens, or Rome (read Greek/Roman
history for its roots, you don't find that in India's
scriptures, not even in the much "erroneous"
PuraaNa-s), flat is not divine, round and smooth in
heavens is divine, etc., the Maxmullerian lullaby was
all "great fundamental truths" they gathered on
India's foundations. There can not be any better
illustration of plain stark primitivity of the monkey
grade!

17. The indology(The Indian secular historians' magnum
opus) primitives can claim all they want on the
spirit of the Veda-s, but the truth is, among the few
millions of students and practitioners of Veda-s, not
even one has ever heard of these idiots, leave alone
their fantastic silly theories with not a grain of
scientific evidence; among a few English schooled
Vedic practitioners who have heard or read THEIR
wildly imaginative false mythology, it is well known
as "their opinions they are welcome to retain oe even
cherish if they wish". That alone is indication of
real facts regarding the Veda-s, their practice, and
practitioners.

18. This is 15th century Church mentality and nothing
else. Now our intellectuals, including but not limited
to Nehru dynasty, Sarvepalli Radhakr`shnan, succumbed
to this sunken thought system. It was successfully
used in the americas to wipe out 100 million humans,
yes, 100,000,000 humans, it is a historical fact
recorded by the remaining few native Americans, to
obliterate their culture, religions, and scriptures,
and to
shamelessly grab their land and wealth, and now to
pontifficate to the rest of humanity! This game did
not succeed in India, and hence what we see is what we
see.

19. There is plenty of records to know that bulk of
Veda-s were collected & compiled by Parashara's son
Vaishampaayana and his disciples about 5,000 years
ago. New undersea archeological finds along coastal
India are taking scientific proof only in that
direction, it can not be wished away by "I know the
facts" garbage of Indology.

The Euro-linguistics monster has failed to eradicate
countless of these records existing all over India.
Now and then an idiot from this exclusive club visits
India, searching to grab these records - if s/he finds
one that fits the 18th century primitive European
imagination, it is preserved in Oxford or Harvard;
otherwise, by every means it is buried. And, thank
God, every Pandit and now most of the English educated
in India know the game of this European primitive
tribe pretending scholarly.

20. Roti(our latino brothers call 'em as tortilla-s)
even went to Mexico long before Columbus set foot on
East Indies. This is Mexican historical fact; Mexican
school children learn about this INDIC Roti even went
to Mexico long before Columbus set foot on East
Indies.
It is fun to see, secular scummy historians chewing
the shit of their colonial historians.

21. Just for some netfun, compare Veda mantra-s to
Bible's assertion of earth's creation in 4006 BC! And
its "God" clearly told so-and-so and what not.., while
Veda-s declare yatO vAchO nivartantE, aprApya manasA
saha - God of the Veda-s did or does not wisper in the
ears of self-chosen few, not in man's image, nor send
messengers as to how mankind should seek Him. For any
of us sunken in Aristotelian God, Veda-s and Vedic
practice are ho-ho-ho primitive ritual stuff.

22. That One as Indescribable beyond words such as
sat, asat, raja, vyOma, mR`tyu, amR`tam, etc.; from
such Indescribable state came tama, then salilam (not
water, but primordial matter, idiot! What does modern
cosmology say? - some indescribable uniform undamental

matter sea from a mathematical singularity, it it not?
Read the most respected cosmologist in CalTech groping
just as R`shi-s did); then aekam mahimAn, desire,
multiplicity, universe, etc.).

And countless more R`ks scattered all over the Veda-s
point to who That Indescribable is, this universe is,
we are, relationally, etc. And the brAhmaNa, AraNyaka
commentaries substantiate this theme - from That One
we and all things manifested, That exists IN
COMPLETENESS and FULLNESS in the tiniest of the
tiniest to the largest of the largest. That One in us
alone connects you and me.

This is 100% contradictory to Aristotelian logic of
duality, THE base of western culture & religions. This
is the core difference in the debate between two
opposing thought systems in humanity since the time of
the Great Buddha.

23. Culture(Culture Universal is the framework in
current humanities research, which exemplifies Western
culture-thus superiority of West. World History =
Western History = Christian History = Christian
History with new cloths called Secular History) is not
Europe's invetion nor sole possession! So, if anyone
feels offended with these facts, time to meditate and
look inside that mind that feels offended! Those who
claim ownership to some supreme culture ought to feel
no offense, disconnected from these ugly primitives,
and look at the colonial past as one horrible crime
against fellow human brethren, that can be forgotten
only when the cultural sons and daughhters of Europe
forcefully condemn the sevaral hundred million murders
throughout the globe in the last 500-600 years (100
millions in the Americas alone - read the accounts of
Native Americans! Millions of Africans enslaved; tens
of millions of Asians butchered; millions of Jews
slaughtered- A fact on Jews, If you see any journals
on Psychology related to Jews, these scum bags
conclude that 80% of jews are moronic blah blah. I
have seen such seminal papers in psychology prof's
office). Their time of pontiffication is running out!
Religions were not the saviers here. It was greed,
bigotry(including Secular Bigots in India), and
intense hatred to others who appeared different. All
of Europe as a whole engaged in this fine culture for
over 600 years. Indology lies don't change even a
molehill in this Himalayan heights of animal grade
crimes.

23. A well known science writer in USA has written
that our scientific model of the present universe may
be just as "faulty" as Columbus's map of earth. And
between modern cosmology and Vedic view, while there
are some similarities, there are great differences
too. Some examples:

Cosmologist's universe is static;
Vedic brahmAnda (that contains the whole universe)
spins around a immobile central axis through
'hiraNyagarBha'.

Cosmologist's universe arose from an indescribable
singularity;
Vedic universe from an Indescribable, permanent, pure.

The most fundamental particle, parent of all
fundamental particle we know today, arose in a uniform
sea from the singularity under tremendous heat (hot
big bang);

Vedic image is of a sea of
salila -> Apa -> ka -> ma -> la (not water of earth)
with no such intense heat, etc.

The notion of mandala-s and pariDhi-s is Vedic: sapta
pariDhi-s, agni-s, jihvA-s, R`Si-s, DhAma-s,
Aditya-sOma-vahni mandala-s, etc. That all celestial
bodies (not just this earth we live on) are mostly
spherical was known to mankind extremely long time
before Aristotle. Just because a small tribe in
ancient Greece forgot this, and later someone from
that tribe re-discovered this fact means just that
only. We need not lose our perspective nor we need to
shoot ourselves as some ritualistic morons.

24.
agrataH chaturO vEdAn pR`STataH sasharam DhanuH
idam brAhmam idam kSAtram shApAdapi sharAdapi

Our approach to win this cultural war has to be
profoundly scholarly (brAhmam) AS WELL AS powerful
counter mental attacks (kSAtram); not mere dry
intellectualism, but hitting the emotions from which
such mean contempt springs up.

Mere scholarship without counter attacks *in the same
language* of the attack will not bring victory to
Dharma. Kumarila Bhatta attacked the Bauddha scholars
like that - returned mean and contemptuous volleys
with 10 time punch power, along with scholarly
substance; result was that Buddhism vanished from
India practically overnight Fundamentally our attack
on the Aristotelianism or Semiticism (the new
chArvaka-s and pASanda-s, really) has to be similar, I
feel. Not half hearted.


Refs:

[1] Secularism = de-Christianised Christology. I will
write an email about this secular variant of
christology soon, if time permits.

[2] psecs = pseudo seculars = This is another tribe in
India, who dont know that they dont know about various
things, starting from secularism, capitalism,
pluralism,...(this list is endless)

[3] parashara smr`ti, 1.22-24.

[4] MS-2.17.

[5] As examples, see MS-8.116, 140

[6] MS-10.8-45

[7] mahABhArata 3.33.36


[8] MS-2.13

[9]http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ReddyOnline/message/2594

Best Regards,
VR
-----------------ooioio----------------
Chronology in (p-)secular text books Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2661 of 36505 < Prev | Next >

Do these historians know basics of science. Why are
they anti-scientific. Oh, this is inherited by their
18th century primitive europeans, who belived in flat
earth, geocentric cosmology.

The appended article shows the prejudice of sunken
marxist-nehruvian brigade of historians.

To make things straight:

Maha Bharata ca. 3067 BCE (cf: Prof. Raghavan and
Achar)

Buddha ca. 1886-1807 BCE (cf: Prof.Thiruvenkatacharya)

Adi Shankara ca. 509 BCE (cf: Viswanatha S, Prof
Balasubramaniam, Theorital Physics group, U of Madras
for related sky maps by Planetarium)

Abhinava Shankara ca. 800 CE (the 38th acharya of
Kanchi peeta). Our missionary brothers confused him
with Adi Shankara.

Aryan Invasion took place ca. 4 BC, as per these
christologists, who found this in quest of missing
Noah discendants in vEda-s. LOL. Thats our
christian(secular) history.

Regards,
VR
PS: Terminology: BCE = Before common era = BC, CE =
Common Era = AD, ca = circa = c.


---------------------------
Some Things Don’t Square Up By Subhash Kak ~ Jan 12,
2003


We are passing through a dark time. Many have lost
their life-savings in the market crash. The excesses
of the IT bubble are being wrung through other sectors
of the economy, and it is not clear when the market
will recover. There is a war hanging in the air. If it
breaks out, what will that do to jobs? Will this be
the war against terror or the war for oil? Will the
al-Qaeda hiding in Pakistan show their hand? If there
is civil war in Pakistan, who will safeguard the
nukes? So many troubling questions!

Since it is getting hard to make sense of the present,
it may be good to be reminded that we do not always
understand the past. Here are a few examples of the
textbook view that don't square up:

1. There was no image worship in the Vedic times

I was reminded of this recently in Delhi by an earnest
young Englishman, an archaeology and anthropology
lecturer, who was certain that image-worship in India
started only with the Imperial Guptas. Indeed, “Hindu
Art and Architecture” published by Thames and Hudson,
London, informs that there were tentative beginnings
of sculptural forms with Hindu themes in the 2nd
century BC followed by a gap in the 3rd and the 4th
centuries, and Hindu images reached quick development
only during the time of the Guptas.

But what do the texts say? Hold it, you'll say, the
texts do not matter because references therein must be
later interpolations. But there are texts that we are
certain have been free of interpolation.

One such text is the “Ashtadhyayi” of Panini, the
great grammarian of the 5th or 4th century BC. Its
terse sutras are written in a technical language in
which changes would alter meaning, and its
commentaries are attested back to the 4th century. In
this text there is clear mention of images. The
ordinary images were called pratikriti and the images
for worship were called archa (see As. 5.3.96-100).
Patanjali, the 2nd century BC author of the
“Mahabhashya” commentary on the “Ashtadhyayi”, tells
us more about the pratikriti and archa.

Amongst other things we are told that a toy horse is
called ashvaka. (This means that the queen who lay
down with the ashvaka in the Ashvamedha did not sleep
with the dead horse.) Deity images for sale were
called Shivaka etc., but an archa of Shiva (Rudra of
the earlier times) was just called Shiva. Patanjali
mentions Shiva and Skanda deities. There is also
mention of the worship of Vasudeva (Krishna). We are
also told that some images could be moved and some
were immoveable. Panini also says that an archa was
not to be sold and that there were people (priests)
who obtained their livelihood by taking care of it.

Panini and Patanjali mention temples which were called
prasadas. There is no mention of the term mandira. The
earlier Shatapatha Brahmana which is smack in the
period of the Vedas, informs us of an image in the
shape of Purusha which was placed within the altar (I
have described this in my recent column on temples).

So what doesn't square up? If temples and images were
an important part of the social and economic life in
the times of Panini and Patanjali, where is the
evidence in terms of images to back it up? If there
were social reasons that religious sculpture was not
produced until the 4th century AD, what were they?

Is it possible that the earliest images have been
misassigned chronologically? The technology of
photoluminescence can help answer that question.

2. The Mahabharata is late (400 BC-400 AD)

The Mahabharata is generally assigned the period of
400 BC-400 AD, and the Ramayana is assigned a narrower
200 BC-200 AD.

The Mahabharata tradition itself claims that the text
was originally 8,800 verses by Krishna Dvaipayana
Vyasa when it was called the Jaya. Later, it was
enlarged to 24,000 verses and it came to be called the
Bharata. It was transmitted by Vyasa to Vaishampayana
and finally recited by Ugrashravas as the Mahabharata
of the 100,000 verses; the two latter rishis appear
thus to be responsible for its enlargements.

Now, the Upanishads speak of texts called
Itihasa-Purana and although the Mahabharata is called
Itihasa, there is no certainty that this was the only
such Itihasa text that has ever existed. The experts
will concede that there may have been an old kernel of
the story going back to the Mahabharata War (its date
is another question that is best left to another
occasion), but the expansion of the text into the
three phases of the Jaya, the Bharata, and the
Mahabharata took place only after 400 BC.

This is where Dakshiputra Panini throws a curveball.
He speaks of the Bharata and the Mahabharata in one of
his sutras (6.2.38). This means that the epic was
substantially complete by 500 BC, although it may have
undergone further modifications and interpolations in
subsequent centuries. The evidence of the sutra by
Panini seems to have escaped most historians.

You: "This is only one piece of evidence. We can't go
against authorities. What other proof do you have?”

Let's examine the contents of the Mahabharata. Large
sections of the epic are devoted to diverse topics--
it really was an encyclopaedia of its times. One of
the most revolutionary things happenings in the
religious life of the people during 400 BC to 400 AD
was the rise of Buddhism. But examine the hundreds of
pages of the epic on religion and there is no mention
of it. The only religions mentioned in the text are:
Vedic, Sankhya, Yoga, Pashupata, and Bhagavata. We
cannot argue that the rishis who wrote the Mahabharata
kept one of the most important religious ideas of
their times out of the story just because they knew
this would become controversial in the 20th century.

Even the political life described in the Mahabharata
does not correspond to the imperial phase of the 400
BC - 400 AD. Cattle raids are the big thing in it, not
imperial conquest. There are also no references in the
epic to the Sishunaga Kings, the Mauryas, the Shungas,
or the later dynasties. The Buddhist Jatakas that were
written during these royal dynasties, on the other
hand, are aware of the characters of the epic. One
Jataka, for example, speaks disparagingly of Draupadi
for having had five husbands.

Given that Panini (say, 400 BC) knows of the
Mahabharata, how can we say that the epic was
completed only in 400 AD? It doesn't square up.
-------------------liio-------------------------
Aristotle's Logic of Duality Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2646 of 36505 < Prev | Next >
It is Aristotelian logic, an intellectual reason,
which killed 1 billion people in last 2000 years.

Rgds,
VR

"Aristotle's Logic of Duality vs. 'sarvam Khalu idam
brahma' for Interfaith Dialogue".

ABSTRACT:

The notion (or reality) of Brahman or Paramatman of
the Astika traditions is fundamentally different from
that of God in western traditions of the last 2,300
years. Likewise,definitions, perceptions and practices
of religions fundamentally differ in the East from
those in the West. It is proposed that this East vs.
West dichotomy resulted from Aristotle's logic of
duality that separated body and spirit
indelibly in the West.

Aristotle kept our common God outside the universe,
ushering in several centuries of man-to-man conflicts,
exploitations, slaveries, wholesale murders, and
tyranny. Gifted minds thus had to craft uniformity
through religions or statecraft to
bring in peace in the societies. Thus the Abrahamic
religions and all schemes of statecraft of West based
on Aristotle's logic of duality are fundamentally at
variance with cherishing and preserving outer
diversities, yet are steady "improvements" over the
Aristotelian thought.

For the Veda-s, this duality is a sure absurdity even
in the tiniest of an atom in the niverse: "aNOraNIyAn
mahatO mahIyAnAtmA guhAyAm nihitO-sya jantOH" - It
(spirit or Divinity) secretly exists in everything
manifest, in more tinier than the tiniest atom as well
as in more expansive than the most expansive. "yatO
vAchO nivartantE, aprApya
manasA saha" - words do not reach There; It is beyond
the reach of the mind as well. And that "It" exists
fully right here, verily in us and in everything:
"sarvan Khalu idam brahma". For some religions, such
as Christianity and Islam, all this is blasphemy, and
herein lies problem of interfaith
dialogue.

In many respects, this dichotomy is similar to the
intellectual schism that surfaced in post-Buddha India
between Bauddha-s and Vaidika-s. The Great Buddha saw
everything including Atman as impermanence and advised
detachment as a solution to human misery; the
Vaidika-s, notably Kumarila Bhatta and Shankara, saw
an ever existing, omnipresent/omniscient, and
immutable Atman in everything as the very and only
real Happiness.

Veda-s declare that the Indivisible, One, immutable,
and primal cause exists wholely in every material
entity. This thought, its practices, and variations in
one form or other have spread their influence
throughout East during later day Buddhism and
Hinduism. Thus seeking personal and societal happiness
by "seeing" That One Divinity everywhere has
become the signature of most religious practices in
the East. This logic of Unity embedded in the eastern
psyche is the basis for social harmony and cherishing
and preserving all physical diversities. Whenever
ignorance and divisions set in, saintly thinkers and
prophets reset the social discourse towards acceptance
of all paths on the singular basis that the One
Indivisible Divinity exists in each and
all.

"Not detachment, but acceptance of all as the
manifestations of That omnipresent One God is the way
to Happiness" was India's solution to Bauddha-Vaidika
schism. "Not tolerance, but acceptance of all faiths
as valid paths each inspired by the very inner
singular Divinity" has to be the basis for a
harmonious solution to our current religious and
political conflicts. There may not be any other real
basis.
---------------lkklklkl-
Eurocentrism of Hegel, Marx, Mueller, Monier Williams Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2623 of 36505 < Prev | Next >
Learned Members:

Pls. find the appended article on eurocentric fringe
and their attitude towards Bha_rata. Now our psec
fringe and their associates viz Mullah-s, Marxists,
Missionaries, Dravidianists worship these sunken
European idols.

Regards,
VR

Eurocentrism of Hegel, Marx, Mueller, Monier Williams
By Rajiv Malhotra, Infinity Foundation.
----------------------------------------
Hegel:

During the colonial era, the naïve assumption of
Western superiority was given authority by thinkers
such as Hegel, who developed a "universal" theory of
history, which was, in essence, a theory of European
history in which the rest of the World was taken to be
objects rather than subjects. For Hegel, as Said has
pointed out, Asia and Africa were "static, despotic,
and irrelevant to world history[1]." Hegel's view of
history was highly influential, on both Marxist and
humanist historiography. His rather extreme
ethnocentrism should thus not be swept under the rug,
but analyzed as a central aspect of his thought. Since
Hegel, Ethnocentrism has often blinded the West to the
parochialism of its supposed "universals".

Particularly egregious are the attempts by thinkers
such as Hegel to define as universal features that
are, in fact, quite culturally specific. This includes
his "universal history", which saw Europe and America
as the pinnacles of human evolution. Hegel wrote, for
example, "universal history goes from East to West.
Europe is absolutely the end of universal history.
Asia is the beginning[2]."

This idea was clearly a justification of Western
colonial exploitation. But Hegel took the idea even
further. Since his "history" is solely defined in
Eurocentric terms, any act committed by the Europeans,
no matter how reprehensible, is justifiable as a
necessary step in human evolution. Hegel wrote that:


"Because history is the configuration of the Spirit in
the form of event, the people which receives the
Spirit as its natural principle…is the one that
dominates in that epoch of world history…Against the
absolute right of that people who actually are the
carriers of the world Spirit, the spirit of other
peoples has no other right[3]."

Hegel saw the evolution of human history as a unified
totality, proceeding via the evolution of the "world
spirit". The "world spirit", for Hegel, was Western,
with other cultures subsumed to the dustbin of
history, forced either to adapt to the West or be
trampled underfoot by this "world spirit", which in
Hegel's writing appears as a complex metaphor for the
reality of Western aggression. Even within the West,
Germany occupies a special destiny. Hegel writes[4]:

"The Germanic Spirit (germanische Geist) is the Spirit
of the New World (neuen Welt), whose end is the
realization of the absolute truth, as the infinite
self-determination of liberty that has for its content
its proper absolute form. The principle of the German
Empire ought to accommodate the Christian religion.
The destiny of the Germanic peoples is that of serving
as the bearer of the Christian principle."

All non-Europeans are mere objects in the hands of the
Europeans, under this theory of history. When applying
his theories to Africans, Hegel arrived at the
following blatantly racist conclusions[5]:

"It is characteristic of the blacks that their
consciousness has not yet even arrived at the
intuition of any objectivity, as for example, of God
or the law, in which humanity relates to the world and
intuits its essence. ...He [the black person] is a
human being in the rough."

Colonialization was the teleological imperative by
which consciousness in the form of the superior
Europeans must appropriate the others. He wrote[6]:


"By a dialectic which is appropriate for surpassing
itself, in the first place, such a society is driven
to look beyond itself to new consumers. Therefore it
seeks its means of subsistence among other peoples
which are inferior to it with respect to the resources
which it has in excess, such as those of industry.
This expansion of relations also makes possible that
colonization to which, under systematic or sporadic
form, a fully established civil society is impelled.
Colonization permits it that one part of its
population, located on the new territory, returns to
the principle of family property and, at the same
time, procures for itself a new possibility and field
of labor."

Hegel also applied this "logic" specifically to his
analysis of India. He depicted the British
colonialization of India as an inevitable stage in his
process of "evolution". He wrote:


"The British, or rather the East India Company, are
the masters of India because it is the fatal destiny
of Asian empires to subject themselves to the
Europeans[7]."

Reading through Hegel's works, it is apparent that he
based conclusions such as this on the rather warped
assumption that India has no history. His clearest
statement to this effect occurs as follows:

"If we had formerly the satisfaction of believing in
the antiquity of the Indian wisdom and holding it in
respect, we now have ascertained through being
acquainted with the great astronomical works of the
Indians, the inaccuracy of all figures quoted. Nothing
can be more confused, nothing more imperfect than the
chronology of the Indians; no people which attained to
culture in astronomy, mathematics, &c., is as
incapable for history; in it they have neither
stability nor coherence. It was believed that such was
to be had at the time of Wikramaditya, who was
supposed to have lived about 50 B.C., and under whose
reign the poet Kalidasa, author of Sakontala, lived.
But further research discovered half a dozen
Wikramadityas and careful investigation has placed
this epoch in our eleventh century. The Indians have
lines of kings and an enormous quantity of names, but
everything is vague[8]."

This is an important passage for two reasons. First,
this assumption has been very influential, and its
consequences continue to be felt today. Secondly,
Hegel gives this as the reason why he had lost respect
for India's cultural heritage. Yet his conclusion is
baseless, and can be critiqued on several points.
Classical Indian astronomy was no more inaccurate than
the classical Greek Ptolemaic system, which Europe
followed until the seventeenth century, and in many
respects the former was more accurate. Regarding the
Vikramaditya era, it is true that there were several
kings with that name in Europe (just as there were
many kings named Louis, Charles, etc. in Europe), but
it does not follow from this that the Indians confused
them. There in fact never was confusion concerning the
Vikramaditya era, starting 57 BCE, and Hegel is
absolutely wrong that this era begins in the eleventh
century. One might argue that there never was a king
of that name who lived at that time, but one could
also argue that there was no Christ born at the year
zero, but such a critique would not "prove" that the
West has no history; the history based on such a
chronology would still be sound, regardless of the
status of the legendary founder of the era. It is
interesting that he takes this rather inconsequential
reason for carte blanche dismissal of Indian wisdom,
as if the contents of a text are false merely because
it is misdated!

Such mistaken views concerning Indian history (or lack
thereof) are at the root of much of the dismissal of
India and things Indian. Also, once it is established
in the minds of an oppressed people that they have no
history of their own, other than what has been gifted
to them by the oppressors, then it also legitimizes
(and glorifies) historical scholarship by the
oppressors. In fact, many a Macaulayite today is
grateful to the colonialists for having given him a
sense of his own history which, the Macaulayites were
programmed to believe, they never had of their own. As
goes history, so go identity and values. This
re-engineering is how Indians were conditioned to
believe that their tradition requires them to be world
negating, to leave materialistic progress to Europeans
as it was against their own ethos. In fact, since
giving up wealth could be seen as very pious, why
bother if colonialists took it over?

Karl Marx:

The false perception that India was a stagnant,
ahistorical land was further perpetuated by Karl Marx.
Marx described India as being caught in what he called
the "Asiatic Mode of Production". He posited that
India was trapped in a stagnant, unhistorical economic
state in which "Oriental despots" wielding absolute
power governed unchanging, stratified villages. His
analysis was flawed by a serious ignorance of the
actual economic history of India, and of the numerous
underlying causes of decline. (This is why to this
day, Marxists do not wish to encourage scholarship on
India's Traditional Knowledge Systems, as the
historical record clearly refutes the belief that
there was no progress on the materialistic front from
within the indigenous culture.) From a certain
perspective, the greatest despots in India were not
Oriental but Occidental, i.e., the British.

These words were written in "The Future Results of
British Rule in India' on August 8, 1853 in the
concluding of a series of articles on India, that were
published in the 'New York Daily Tribune'. In a letter
to Engels, Marx claimed that he had written these
casual pieces primarily for financial reasons and that
India was "not his department[9]":

"India, then, could not escape the fate of being
conquered, and the whole of her past history, if
anything, is the history of the successive conquests
she has undergone. Indian society has no history at
all, at least no known history. What we call its
history, is but the history of the successive
intruders who founded their empires on the basis of
that unresisting and unchanging society… From the
Indian natives, reluctantly and sparingly educated at
Calcutta, under English superintendence, a fresh class
is spring up, endowed with the requirements for
government and imbued with European science. Steam has
brought India into regular and rapid communication
with Europe, has connected its chief ports with the
whole south-eastern ocean, and has re-vindicated it
from the isolated position which was the prime law of
its stagnation."

Max Mueller:

The predator-prey mentality of foreign rulers and
scholars working on the ancient texts of India did not
fail to influence the famous Max Mueller. This is
reflected in one of the letters by Prof. Mueller
addressed to the Duke of Orgoil, the then Secretary of
State for India. Mueller wrote on 16th Dec. 1868:

"The ancient religion of India is totally doomed and
if Christianity doesn't step in whose fault will it
be."

Furthermore, in a letter addressed to his wife in
1868, Prof. Max Mueller wrote:

"I hope I shall finish that work and feel convinced
that though I shall not live to see it, yet this
edition of mine and translation of Vedas will
hereafter tell to a great extent on the fate of India
and on the growth of millions of the souls in this
country."

In the same letter, he further observes:

"It [Veda] is the root of their religion and to show
them what the root is, I feel sure, the only way of
uprooting all that has been sprung from it during the
last three thousand years."

The text of his letters is self-explanatory to the
fact that scholars like Max Mueller often started
studying Sanskrit with ulterior motives. The modern
condition demonstrates that he was more or less
successful in his vision.

Monier Williams:

Monier Williams another important European scholar who
was hard pressed by the Church. He wrote[10]:

"When the walls of the mighty fortress of Brahmanism
are encircled, undermined and finally stormed by the
soldiers of cross, the victory of Christianity must be
signal and complete."

In his preface to his famous Sanskrit-English
Dictionary, as the Professor of the prestigious Boden
Chair at Oxford, Monier Williams reveals the objective
of founding the Chair for Sanskrit studies by Col.
Boden as to convert the natives of India into
Christianity. He writes thus[11]:

"I must draw attention to the fact that I am only the
second occupant of the Boden Chair, and that its
founder, Col. Boden, stated most explicitly in his
will (dated Aug. 15,1811) that special object of his
munificent bequest was to promote the translation of
the scriptures into Sanskrit; so as to enable his
countrymen to proceed in the conversion of the natives
of India to the Christian Religion."

Eurocentrism Today:

Enrique Dussel has written a remarkable book on
Eurocentrism, focusing on the European conquest of
America and the subsequent 'construction' of history
to depict it as the miracle of European triumph. He
writes[12]:


"The traditional Eurocentric thesis, flourishing in
the United States, modernity's culmination, is that
modernity expanded to the barbarian cultures of the
South undoubtedly in need of modernization. One can
only explain this new-sounding but age-old thesis by
returning to medieval Europe to discover the motives
which produced modernity and permitted its
dissemination. Max Weber first posed the question of
world history Eurocentrically[13]:

"Which chain of circumstances has resulted in the fact
that on Western soil and only there, cultural
phenomena have been produced which, as we represent
it, show signs of evolutionary advance and universal
validity?"

Weber continues[14]:

"Neither scientific, artistic, governmental, nor
economic evolution has led to the modes of
rationalization proper to the Occident."

Europe possessed, according to this paradigm,
exceptional internal characteristics which permitted
it to surpass all other cultures in rationality. This
thesis, which adopts a Eurocentric (as opposed to
world) paradigm, reigns not only in Europe and the
United States, but also among intellectuals in the
peripheral world. The pseudo-scientific periodization
of history into Antiquity, the Middle (preparatory)
Ages, and finally the Modern (European) Age is an
ideological construct which deforms world history. One
must break with this reductionist horizon to open to a
world and planetary perspective - and there is an
ethical obligation toward other cultures to do so.

Chronology reflects geopolitics. According to the
Eurocentric paradigm, modern subjectivity especially
developed between the times of the Italian Renaissance
and the Reformation and of the Enlightenment in
Germany and the French Revolution. Everything occurred
in Europe."

References Cited:

1. Edward Said, Culture and Imperialism (New York:
Vintage Books, 1993), p. 168.

2. Hegel, Samtliche Werke. J. Hoffmeister and F.
Meiner, eds. (Hamburg, 1955), appendix 2, p. 243; op
cit. Enrique Dussel, The Invention of the Americas
(New York: Continuum, 1995), p. 20.

3. Hegel, Samtliche Werke. J. Hoffmeister and F.
Meiner, eds. (Hamburg, 1955), appendix 2, p. 243; op
cit. Enrique Dussel, The Invention of the Americas
(New York: Continuum, 1995), p. 20.

4. Hegel, "The Philosophy of History", rev. ed.,
trans. J. Sibree (New York: Colonial Press, 1900),
p.341.

5. Hegel, Lectures on the Philosophy of World History,
Introduction: Reason in History, trans. H. B. Nisbet
(Cambridge University Press, 1975), p.138.

6. Enzyklopadie, #248, English translation: "Hegel's
Philosophy of Right", trans. T. M. Knox (Oxford:
Clarendon Press, 1952), p. 151.

7. From Hegel's Einleitung in die Geschichte der
Philosophie (J. Hoffmeister, ed., Hamburg: F. Meiner,
1962), op. cit. Roger-Pol Droit, L'Oubli de L'Inde,
Une Amnésie Philosophique, Presses Universitaires de
France, 1989, p. 189.

8. From Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel. Lectures on the
History of Philosophy. E. S. Haldane, trans. Lincoln:
University of Nebraska Press, 1995, vol. 1, pp.
125-126.

9. Halbfass, Wilhelm: "India and Europe, An Essay in
Understanding". State University of New York Press,
Albany (New York), 1988, pp. 137-138.

10. Monier Williams, 'Modern India and Indians', p.
247.

11. Monier William, Sanskrit-English Dictionary, 1899,
Preface, p. ix.

12. Enrique Dussel, "The Invention of the Americas:
Eclipse of "the Other" and the Myth of Modernity",
Translated by Michael D. Barber, pp. 9- 2.

13. Max Weber, "Soziologie, weltgeschichtliche
Analyzen, Politik (Stuttgart: Kroner, 1956), p.340.

14. ibid., p.351.
--------------------kkll----
Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2120 of 36505 < Prev | Next >
Dear members,
Pls. check the appended email to check the hate
compaign against a non-profit org IDRF, by so called
p-secs in India, and their association with 9-11
lunatics.

Best Regards,
VR

Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:06:55 -0500
From: ank@...
To: ank@...
Subject: Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition

Dear friend:

You may be aware that a virulent hate campaign has
been launched by lunatic fringe of Marxists based in
USA. It is in the form of a campaign called "The
Campaign to Stop Funding Hate" and is aimed at a
volunteer-based charity India Development & Relief
Fund (IDRF). This campaign seeks to mislead, deceive,
and/or intimidate the well-meaning Indians, inspired
by Swami Vivekananda and Mahatma Gandhi, who want to
serve the poor and underprivileged of India. The
campaign aims to stop fundraising of IDRF in USA and
the biggest casualty of this senseless campaign would
be those who need our support the most - the poorest
of the poor downtrodden of India.

We would like you to visit the petition's website at

http://www.letindiadevelop.org

and sign the petition. Let your voice be heard. If we
fail to act at this critical juncture, the people who
repeatedly invoke Mahatma Gandhi's name to perpetuate
their hatred for anything Indian, will succeed in
their sinister plans.

We urge you to act proactively and support the
petition.

Jai Bharat & Jai USA!

PS: My investigations point to a handful of
Paki/Muslim shenanigans who are active supporters of
9/11 type Osama terrorists + the asuri Taliban as
being the incubators of this and similar "Hate India"
campaigns in USA. One of them circulated the below
email that throws light on their "Hate India" campaign
in the guise of secularism. You may kindly read it
too, and use your own common sense to figure out the
real nature of this "Hate India" and "damn India"
terrorist club. Almost all of Islamic charities in USA
funnelled funds to Osama's terror networks, and hence
have been shut down by US Government. The war of this
pro-Taliban club against IDRF is thus understandable.

Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:10:43 -0500
To: secular-publicity@...
From: "A. Sur"
Subject: campaign to stop funding hate

Dear all,

This is a call for help.

As you might already know, some of us have been
working on launching the "Campaign to Stop Funding
Hate" in order to staunch the flow of NRI money to the
Sangh Parivar. A report detailing the links between
IDRF (an organization that collects money here
ostensibly for relief and charity) and the Sangh
Parivar was released to the press today both here and
in India. The text of the report is available at
http://www.mnet.fr/aiindex/2002/FEH (Harsh Kapoor's
site), http://www.sabrang.com/hnfund/sacw/index.html
(the Communalism Combat site),
http://www.outlookindia.com and on the webpage of the
campaign itself: http://www.stopfundinghate.org

The response from the press has been great so far.
Many Indian papers and magazines have already carried
the story and our own Biju Mathew was on Star News TV
debating VHP President Vishnu Hari Dalmiya (and
according to early reports "made mincemeat out of
him").

But this is only the beginning. We could use a LOT of
help. At this time, what we need you to do is to visit
the campaign's web-site and sign the petition that you
will find there. We are hoping to generate at least
1,000 signatures by the end of the week. Please
(please, please) add your signature and forward this
call to as many as possible.

Visit the campaign website
http://www.stopfundinghate.org or go directly to the
petition at
http://www.stopfundinghate.org/cgi-bin/WhyStopIt.pl as
soon as you get a chance and help us out. Many thanks.

We will be calling on you for more as the campaign
progresses.

In solidarity and struggle,
Ali
-----------------ergdfg---------------------
===========fgdfg-----------------------
------------------------fgdfg----------------------------------
-----------------------fgdfg----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------vdfgdfg----------------------


=------d--gdfgdfg-df-g-----------------------------------------dfgdfg--------------------
-gdfgdfg-dgdfgdgdf-g--------------




FW: A Horible Fact About KFC Message List
Reply | Forward Message #12604 of 36637 < Prev | Next >
Re: FW: A Horible Fact About KFC



It is yet another hoax. However, all meats and chicken in USA do
contain growth harmone etc. And these 4-legged animals fed on their
own blood, hence alzheimers and so on. Antibiotics injected into
these livestock and poultry is another concern.

Best Regards,
Venkateswara Reddy

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "Praveen Kumar Reddy"
wrote:
> I am not sure whether it is correct or not ?
>
> Bye
> Praveen

> From: Jagat Pathak [mailto:Jagat_Pathak@i...]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 5:15 PM
> Subject: A Horible Fact About KFC
>
>
>
>
>
> A Horrible Fact about KFC
> KFC has been a part of our American traditions for many years.
Many
> people, day in and day out, eat at KFC religiously. Do they really
know
> what they are eating? During a recent study of KFC done at the
> University
> of New Hampshire, they found some very upsetting facts. First of
all,
> has
> anybody noticed that just recently, the company has changed their
name?
> Kentucky Fried Chicken has become KFC. Does anybody know why? We
thought
>
> the real reason was because of the "FRIED" food issue.
>
> IT'S NOT! !
> The reason why they call it KFC is because they can not use the
word
> chicken anymore. Why? KFC does not use real chickens. They
actually use
> genetically manipulated organisms. These so called "chickens" are
kept
> alive by tubes inserted into their bodies to pump blood and
nutrients
> throughout their structure. They have no beaks, no feathers, and no
> feet.
> Their bone structure is dramatically shrunk to get more meat out of
> them.
> This is great for KFC. Because they do not have to pay so much for
their
>
> production costs. There is no more plucking of the feathers or the
> removal
> of the beaks and feet. The government has told them to change all
of
> their
> menus so they do not say chicken anywhere. If you look closely you
will
> notice this. Listen to their commercials, I guarantee you will not
see
> or
> hear the word chicken. I find this matter to be very disturbing. I
hope
> people will start to realize this and let other people know.

==================sdsd=======================

Re: For All Reddies ---- Plz Slove This Logic Message List
Reply | Forward Message #10999 of 36637 < Prev | Next >
Re: For All Reddies ---- Plz Slove This Logic



--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "-->> Pravin <<--"
wrote:

> help 1:
> this depends on ur english

> me nanaku nuvu enno kodukuvi

(1) what is your ordinality among your father's sons
(2) Which ordinal position do you occupy in your father's male
progeny?


Best Regards,
Ven Reddy.

===========dfgdfgd=======================

IT HAPPENS ONLY IN INDIA Message List
Reply | Forward Message #10880 of 36637 < Prev | Next >
Re: IT HAPPENS ONLY IN INDIA



--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Anana Reddy Padala
wrote:

> "Hinduism is not a religion it is a way of life". -

deep down, 'hinduism' is the construction of semites--first islamic
rules, next christians (Phil Almond wrote a book on the Christians
construction of Buddism--"British Discovery of Buddism). Of course,
we keep on hearing that the current 'west' is the inheritor
of 'greeco-roman' civilization, because the latter dont any longer
exist. After all, Christians and Jews like 2000 years could not
comprehend then flourishing Pagan traditions in Greece, Rome; hence
creating 'paganism' outta varigated pheneomona in the pagan greece
and rome.

This raises yet another question: have Christians, muslims, jews
understood "what makes islam/judaism/christianity into a *religion*,
but not *meta-physics*. Of course, they didnt, and haven't. There is
a world of difference between experiencing and understanding: in
fact, our bodies subject to gravity; by virtue of it, and because of
our experiencing gravity, we cant claim to be physicists.


Now, all christian beliefs got secularized; and such beliefs would
become 'our' (Indian) beliefs, thanks to 'angreji' intelligentia.
Since when mere beliefs became empirical truths: it was part of
common sense experience, too, that earth was flat:) Idem for these
secular truths!


Best,
VR

=============hgdfgdfg=

Cong led govt for reservations in private sector Message List
Reply | Forward Message #10879 of 36637 < Prev | Next >
Re: Cong led govt for reservations in private sector



Congress is no different than the Christians who played the same
tricks during the conversion in Goa: on one hand, Jesuits forced the
Colonial govt to offer jobs to those converted, or saved from the
clutches of the Devil; on the other, then colonial govt did not want
to hire the incompentent (anyway, not all converted were
incompetent; or not all heathens were competent)

That is to say, then colonial govt did deny the requests of their
Jesuits.


I am sick and tired of these congressque way: making some acts
obligatory, forbidden, permissible. The thinkers of various parties--
be it BJP, or CPI, or Congress--should rather grasp the unintended
consequences of 'secular,' or Normative, ethics.

Best,
VR


--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "rikericcw"
wrote:
> Well the Congress wanted to stagnate India in the name of Secular
and
> we Reddys as a community blindly supported it without knowing the
> consequences and now we are getting our rewards.This will
definately
> be the vote-clincher for Congress in the next elections too. It's
a
> pity that hardly any Indian thinks about the future of the
country.
> If as expected 50% are reserved then i really fear for the future
> educated reddys
>
>
> India 'job quotas' spark fears
>
> By Khozem Merchant in Mumbai
> Published: June 4 2004 5:00 | Last Updated: June 4 2004 5:00
>
> Foreign employers in India fear an affirmative action employment
plan
> contained in the new government's economic agenda could hit
> productivity and competitiveness.
>
>
> P Chidambaram, India's finance minister, was yesterday consulting
> leading manufacturers on government proposals to reserve jobs for
> people from lower-caste or tribal classes.
>
> Mr Chidambaram raised the issue of job quotas in talks with
> businessmen and foreign investors as he sought to calm markets
> unnerved by populist measures in the government's economic agenda.
>
> "The minister said nothing was fixed [on reserved jobs]. But he
> sought ideas and it is clearly in the interests of Indian business
to
> engage as wide a section of the population as possible," said Mr
> Mukesh Ambani, chairman of Reliance, which employs more than
80,000
> in telecommunications and petrochemicals.
>
> India's so-called scheduled and similar classes, the most
> economically disadvantaged sections of society, form about half of
> the 1bn population.
>
> Mahesh Vyas, chief executive of the Centre for Monitoring Indian
> Economy, a leading think-tank, said: "In the past, affirmative
action
> has had a positive impact on backward classes.
>
> "With the right education of foreign investors, there is no reason
> why future FDI should not also be similarly beneficial."
>
> The development comes as the state of Maharashtra in western
India,
> one of the leading locations for domestic and foreign direct
> investment, also moves to reserve jobs for lower castes.
>
> Maharashtra's legislature is debating a law that could mandate
> companies to employ up to half their staff from "backward" castes.
Mr
> V S Dhummal, the state's industries secretary, said it was too
early
> to comment on the implications as the law was in "discussion
stage".
>
> Maharashtra hosts some of India's largest engineering
manufacturers
> such as Tata Motors and Bajaj Autos, as well as foreign employers
> such as Bayer, the pharma group, and car manufacturer Mercedes
Benz.
>
> The move by Maharashtra's legislators has alarmed prospective
> employers.
>
> This month, LG Electronics will begin pilot production at a
> television plant employing 150 people near Mumbai, the capital of
> Maharashtra. It already employs 2,400 at a consumer goods factory
> near Delhi. "[We] would have no option but to comply - but how can
we
> compete this way?" asked an LG official.
>
> One large European commercial vehicle manufacturer, which has
plans
> for a components plant near Mumbai that would employ more than
1,000
> people, said it was "extremely concerned" by moves to determine
> employment by caste rather than merit.


===========jk===================

Reg: BUSH Message List
Reply | Forward Message #10872 of 36637 < Prev | Next >
Re: Reg: BUSH



he capitalized on many issues, some of which are as follows:

1. war time leader; btw, most of the white families have atleast one
person from every generation who involved in war, since they fought
native indians.

A friend wrote on USA memorial day:
"I used to think that USA's Memorial Day is what we read about it:
honoring those who fought and died for the country of USA. But here
are somethings I did not know till the last Memrial Day' week: By and
large, this is a society constantly at war since the 15th century to
date. Every generation has a father, husband, brother, or uncle dead
in the line of duty. And the Sunday of the Memorial Day for much of
USA is a very emotional day of mourning, each family thinking and
talking about the times family spent with that departed soldier.
People cut down on all the bad stuff - less booze, smoke, sex, etc.
People shop less - just stay home, visit cemetary, and watch the
parade by their kids on town's main streets. In essence, this is the
national "shraadDha" day for USA"

2. same-sex marriages: Mind you, 35% of americans are evalengical
christians. Esp people in the west, thanks to secularized
christianity, spend more time to decision making to act -- and less
time to learing thru acting. The debate is: knowing in order to act
vs. acting in order to know.

3. Gun control: most of the red states, the states voted for Bush,
are largely rural. The democrats want to restrict Guns.

4. Taxes. democrats are hypocrites in a sense: for instance, take
the wife of John Kerry, Theresa Heinz Kerry, whose worth is $500
million, and who paid 12% in taxes on $5 millions last year. And
bro. kerry wants to impose 35% tax on those who as a couple making
more than $200,000 per annum. Put this way, if you and your wife
combined are making $250,000--and of course you are not considered
rich if you put across your bills on balance sheet, you are heavily
taxed. So, there is but two options left: either you should be like
Theresa heinz kerry, or you should be $10 per hour grocery-clerk.

Disclaimer: I am neither a republican nor a democrat. I am against
the so called 'secular' state, a state founded upon LAW, becaue the
secular state is part and parcel of Christian theology. The fights
between liberals and conservatives are akin to the old fights
between protestants and catholics, but in a secular guise.


Best Regards,
VR.




--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "govindamarnathreddy"
wrote:
>
>
> Hello members who r residing in US.
> What was the main object that maked him to be again as a President
> for the second time.
>
>
> And Also
>
> "WISH U ALL A HAPPY DIWALI"
>
>
> With Regards
> _amar nath reddy.g
=======================eterte=================

Re: [ReddyOnline.org] Jobs in Java,ASP,.Net,PL SQL, Message List
Reply | Forward Message #10866 of 36637 < Prev | Next >
Re: anybody from kurnool in london



you sounds more like gpr 94-98 ce, kurnool; If so, check with jaya
krishna of cse, whose email I have long forgotten, and who works
there.

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, reddy kypa
wrote:
>
> hai guys,
> is there anybody from kurnool (or near by)in
> london.please mail me
> thank u.
> bye bye
> madhu sudhan reddy
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________ALL-NEW
Yahoo! Messenger - all new features - even more fun!
http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

============j=--------==================

No more domestic visa re-issuance Message List
Reply | Forward Message #9273 of 36637 < Prev | Next >
Re: No more domestic visa re-issuance

The answer is known in immigration circles--that is, reducing the
workload of Service Centers in order to expedite AOS(Adj of Status)
and immigrant visas etc. Of course, they get priority over non
immigrant visas such as H, L, J etc. Gone are good old days!



--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Kiran Reddy wrote:
> Freinds,
>
> Do you know this? US ceased domestic visa
> re-issuance to certain categories of people. Those
> include Journalists and High tech workers. All these
> people have to go back to home country for their visa
> renewed at American consulate. Reasons behind the
> decision yet to be revealed.
>
> Stay tune for more updates!!
>
> -Kiran
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!
> http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail


===============jkjk===============

For all broad minded reddy guys....MUST READ Message List
Reply | Forward Message #9272 of 36637 < Prev | Next >
Re: For all broad minded reddy guys....MUST READ

Inadvertently, I bumped into this thread, while searching for
something else. The 'broadmindedness' that we angreji speaking Indians
talk of and parrot has different connotations, as any visit to local,
say in US, broadminded clubs tell more of that phenomenon. Latha
wanted, I think, to see reactions from members in this egroup, as her
line "who happily engaged with me knowing that I really Love someone
else... " really ticked me off. Unless your parents are giving him big
gigs *upfront*, I dont believe your story.

>
> So called Broad minded Reddy Guys,
> Please open up your eyes atleast now.This a real story...my own
story.I'm not so good in writing inspiring stories.....but please take
a few minutes to read my story....
>
> I was a timid and pampered girl since my childhood.My parents and my
sister took care of me so.. much.They gave me lots of freedom in
whatever I wanted to do.My sister lives here in NJ with her
husband.They got me here on H-1 B visa .They gave me enough freedom to
stay alone and do my job.But,when it came to my marriage issue,they
couldn't tolerate this issue that I found a guy of my liking(Point to
note here is that he is a well-settled Reddy guy),but,they couldn't
digest the fact that I chose my own groom.Everyone in my family is
very well educated....but..the so called broad minded people in my
family got me forcefully engaged to another "BROAD-MINDED" Reddy guy...
>
>
> Hats' off to all the so called "BROAD-MINDED" Reddy guys in the
group.At least realise now....give the Reddy girls...at least a chance
to say their feelings....
>
> When it comes to me...I'm definitely not marrying that guy whom I'm
engaged with...nor I'm going to elope with the guy I love by
de-grading my family's respect...I'll definitely let the group know my
decision just before I implement it...
>

====fhfhf=============================

SAP Message List
Reply | Forward Message #9253 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Hi Friends:
I have a couple of questions--which, I hope, need be answered--on SAP:

1. Which subfield in SAP has greater job market in USA, providing that, if matters at all, one has green card?

2. Do you know cheap SAP training centers, if any, in Bay Area, California? Of course, one may say it is better going to Hyderabad and learn there, but I am unfortunately not in a position to do so.

3. How fast one can master skills sufficient to cope in the SAP job--thru this training?

Best Regards, Enkat Reddy.

Do you Yahoo!?
New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages!

===============kkljklkjl=========================

Please see my File Message List
Reply | Forward Message #5268 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: Please see my File

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "naren2k" wrote:
> Hi everyone
>
> Please go to files, and see my file which I have uploaded to view
by
> all. Its called "Interview with God".

The file you loaded, somewhen, directed to the below URL:
http://www.interviewwithgod.net/

Brother, welcome to this group, many of Indian souls needs to be
cleansed and to be implanted with "innate sense of God(note capital G
and that the reference to God in religion is antithetical to 'deva'
of Indians)". Anthropologists do agree that Indians have weak sense,
which manifests in groupism(Castism, thanks to Devil's machinations),
but lacking individualim. Ostracize caste system, banish the evil
(Devil) from India.

You know, our historical journey begins at a beginning: in this
beginning some tell us, there was the Word, that Word was God, and
God said ....

This is the beginning of reformers, error-removers!

Bless you.


> Post any comments you may have. Njoy

================kljkljl=================

Lobbying fails, H-1B visa cap falls to 65,000 Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4957 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: Lobbying fails, H-1B visa cap falls to 65,000

WSJ, on 10/01, apprises of gaining momentum on Capitol Hill to cap L1
visas to 31,000. In 2001, ~310,000 L1 visas were issued, which is a
way greater than 195K.

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "Rajasekhar Reddy Allipuram-
Moderator-Reddyonline" wrote:
> Lobbying fails, H-1B visa cap falls to 65,000
>
>
> MUMBAI: The annual cap for H-1B visas will now be 65,000. This is a
sharp drop from the earlier limit of 195,000 visas.
>
>
>
> The US plans to enforce this rule from October 1, 2003.

================lkjlkjl=========================

Krishna Yadav Scam Related news Message List
Reply | Forward Message #4589 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: Krishna Yadav Scam Related news

Karnataka minister, of courge congy, Roshan Baig has involved in
this. The secular Baig was also in ex-CM Patel's cabinet. Known are
his links to Dawood gangs in Bangalore.


http://www.eenadu.net/story.asp?qry1=10&reccount=17




--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "palnadu" wrote:
> Read our Eitorial regarding scam.
>
> http://www.greatandhra.com/news/krishna.html

================kljlkjl===============

On the Semantics of Talking and Shouting Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3836 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Lesson #0 to understand the phenomenon secularism, which I would call
as neural disorder.



[Quote]

Talk they did, right down to the 20th century, In 1882, William
Hastie spoke of the 'Hindu Idolatry and English Enlightenment' by
describing India as "the most stupendous fortress and citadel of
ancient error and idolatry...Its foundations pierce downwards into
Stygian pool". Hinduism itself was, as he saw it, a mass of

"senseless mummeries, loathsome impurities...every conceivable form
of licentiousness, falsehood, injustice, cruelty, robbery,
murder...Its sublimest spiritual hv been but the reflex of
physiological conditions in disease"

But, nota bene, this attack born outta the inability of Xianity to
gain serious foothold in the Indian society. What has changed, as
time and tastes hv, is the set of 'wrongs' identified by the
intellectuals:

yesterday it pertained to saving their bodies, today it pertains to
saving their bodies; yesterday it was impervious to the message of
the Gospels, today it is impervious to the message of social and
economic progress. Xian priesthood moralized the discourse abt the
Brahmins and the caste system; their heirs, the social scientists of
20th centuty, faithfully continue it oblivious to anything else but
their own sanctimoniousness. This is not the only continuity b/w
priests of yesterday( and today) and the social scientists of the
20th century:something else unites them too, if not in Christ then
elsewhere, namely *ignorance* of what they were/are talking about.

Similarly difficulties encountered by the triumphant march of Xianity
across the Asian continent as well. In Japan and China too,
this 'irrestible force' met with an immovable object. The 'Holy
Spirit' can move much but not, apparently, this immovable object. you
do not need me to tell you who or what to blame: the heathens and
their duplicity, of course. As the Mission Superior of Japan, Padre
Francisco Cabral in 1596, voiced his thoughts abt the induction of
Japanese into the Jesuit Order:

"If one does not cease and desist admitting Japanese into the
Society ... that will be the reason for the collapse of Society, nay!
of Xianity, in Japan, and it will later hardly prove possible to find
a remedy ... I have seen no other nation as conceited, covetous,
inconstant, and insincere as the Japanese ... they are educated to be
inscrutable and false."

The 'red face' was primitive -- it could be decimated; the 'blacks'
were backward-they could be enslaved; the 'yellow' and the 'brown'
were inferior-they could be colonized. But how to convert them? One
could persecute resistance and oppisition. How to respond to
INDIFFERENCE? Because, if there is one word to capture the attitude
of these heathens towards Xianity, it is this: indifference. The
shrill and strident ttone of the Xian Gospels-leave alone those of
the messengers-is itself suspect: if the missionary position is all
that superior, as the actress sighed tiredly at the Bishop, Why the
need to shout?

[EndQuote]

===================kljkl===========

free of cost download telugu movies Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3587 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: free of cost download telugu movies

--- reddy_129 wrote:
> hai guys,
> if u want to download telugu movies go to website
> www.mirc.com

a windows client for IRC(Internet Relay Chat based on spanning tree
of servers) can be had from above site. Further, one can use it as
file-sharing program. Who gonna transfer movies to whom?

>and u
> wiil get all the information u need.
> madhu sudhan reddy

======================l;k;==================

Is Congress Party truely secular ???? Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3573 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: Is Congress Party truely secular ????

A couple of books by KS Lal have been published on web lately. We've
not heard of these historical accounts in our HOLY history books.

Muslim Slave System in Medieval India
http://www.bharatvani.org/books/mssmi/

Indian Muslims Who Are They
http://www.bharatvani.org/books/imwat/

The first book provide some insights as to why, the moslems whom the
secular congies + commies pamper, they capture female heathens etc
during 15th century jihaads. Interested folks can probe further the
stories told by bikshakonti reddys and the Muhammadian sacred wars.


--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, shilpi reddy
wrote:
>
> hi venkateshwara reddy garu-
> if you know any details of the incidents of kunti malla reddy's
dynasty, please post them. it would be beneficial to all of us. yes,
we could not write history as we were losers but we can try- why not
try including that topic in some academic books- i know this is a far
fethed idea but may be we can-
> regards

============klkl---\============

Gandhi and Moplah-s Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3088 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
The first considerable religious riot in India under British rule was
the so-called Mopla rebellion of 1921 which occurred in Malabar as an
offshoot of the Khilafat Movement. The Moplas burst into
unprecedented violence against the British, following upon the
Khilafat Committee's call for the same addressed to the believing
population of Malabar. As it turned out, most of the casualties
in this jihãd were Hindus rather than the British. Hundreds of Hindu
women jumped into wells to save their honour, others being ravished
and slaughtered with absolute indifference by blood-thirsty mujãhids.
Hundreds of corpses of Hindu women as well as children were recovered
from the wells after the end of the riots. The call for this jihãd
had been pronounced by the Ali Brothers, Hasrat Mohani, and Maulana
Abul Kalam Azad. Mahatma Gandhi himself acknowledged these atrocities
as part of *Islam's holy war*. He referred to the mujãhids as "God-
fearing Moplas" and said: "They were fighting for what they consider
as religion and in a manner which they consider as religious."

http://www.bharatvani.org/books/jihad/ch10.htm

----------

Keep in mind that the RSS was started after Gandhi and congress
started to appease muslims inspite of atrocious behavior

=================llkjjl==================

Temple attacked in US Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3024 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
FYI: Now 'Indo-US Seculars' are happy with this event.





http://www.rediff.com/us/2003/mar/01us1.htm

Temple attacked in US

George Joseph in New York | March 01, 2003 16:57 IST


The police and FBI are at a loss why a fire bomb was thrown at the
Hindu temple in St Louis, Missouri, on the night of February 22. "It
seemed to be a crude bomb or Molotov cocktail, which set fire to the
front door of the temple," Krishna Reddy, president of the temple
trustee board, said.

The police have registered a hate crime case, officials said. The
fire quickly burned itself out, charring a four-foot section of the
door.

The attack happened after midnight, Reddy thinks. Temple officials
discovered the attack when they arrived to open the shrine the next
morning.

"There are four priests living in the compound a little behind the
temple. They did not hear anything that night," Reddy said.

"We are getting a lot of support from the police, FBI and other
officials. There is no panic in the community," Jiwan Singla,
chairman of the temple building committee, said.

"Everything is normal, but we are increasing security," he said.

There was no threat to the temple, police said. The temple has no
dispute with anyone, Reddy noted. There was an attack on statues in
front of the temple two years ago, he said. Vandals cut parts of the
statues, which were replaced later.

After that incident, security cameras were installed inside the
temple. "Now we are installing security cameras outside the temple,"
Reddy said.

Established 13 years ago, it is one of the largest temples in the US
serving more than 8,000 families. Lord Venkatesa is the principal
deity.

"Maybe it's just kids, I don't know, but what they did is serious and
it could have been worse," Reddy said. "We certainly hope they don't
come back."

Maha Shivratri celebrations are scheduled for March 1. "The attack
has not changed anything," Singla noted. All the activities will go
on as scheduled, he said.

========================llklkkl-=-=//====================

Re: Reddy's in Factionism Message List
Reply | Forward Message #3000 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: Reddy's in Factionism

yo! Who is fighting with whom in ALG?

Let us recall the stories of Bhooma Bal Reddy and YS Raja Reddy?






--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, vijay reddy
wrote:
> i am from allgadda (kurnool). there must be continue
> factionism in our area. if it is not there we have no
> power. if want to live like a king then we must enter
> into such things.

===-=-=-=-====================

Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2887 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: [ReddyOnline] Re: Gene Bomb


--- "reddy_sas2000 "
wrote:
>
> Hi Hindu Fundamentalist,

To Secular scumm Bag again.

I already presented my arguments in this egroup. I am
not seeking any donations for IDRF, nor asking for
VOTE for LOTUS. It is mere idealogical debate. Indic
traditions Vs. Abrahamic Secular Scum Bags!

Let the Open minded readers decide about my arguments.


It is not the SECULAR THUGS, nor PRIMITIVE HINDU-s who
decide these arguments presented hitherto!

To members in this egroup and the moderator: it is
worthless to argue in this egroup except Secular
emotions. I am signing off from this list!

=============l;kk;==============

Fwd: Re: [indictraditions] AIA News Release Shuttle Columbia Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2852 of 36657 < Prev | Next >



--- In indictraditions, synektix wrote:

Friends,

I appeal to The Association of Indians in America, and the office
bearers or members of any other self-respecting professional, secular,
religous, or academic/intellectual agency represented on this list to
PROTEST, under their official letterhead, the portrayal of Kalpana
Chawla on the New York Times thumbnail sketch of her. I heard that
AOL provided a link on its home page to the same version.

On this sketch there is next to no information on Chawla --but
highlighted prominently is the fact that she made certain errors on
her last mission that required other astronauts to go on a spacewalk
to retrieve an instrument.

It is DESPICABLE in the extreme to put out this information to the
general public on the heels of such an unspeakable tragedy, when she
is as much of a martyr to the cause of space exploration and science
as any of the others that perished. Im not sure any of the other
astronauts can lay claim to having made NO MISTAKES over the course of
their training, or in spaceflight.

We must state as one community how we strongly deplore the poor taste
and utter lack of sensitivity to her family on the part of the New
York Times.

We must hold them accountable for ensuring that THIS is what people
who read about her remember, not the odds she had to overcome, or,
most importantly, her phenomenal courage in RETURNING and CONTINUING
TO PRESS ON rather than becoming demoralized and defeated by that very
public error.

We could write as individuals --I certainly will -- but I believe it
will be far stronger if letters go out under official letterheads
reflecting the collective opinions of many. PLEASE ACT.

Regards, Chitra



---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
--- End forwarded message ---

=====================;lk;lk;l============

Re: hear this is the position of IIT in the world. Be proud of it.. Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2706 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: hear this is the position of IIT in the world. Be proud of it......................

Anyway, these so called elite univ-s in US and India are not
contributing much to basic sciences. And NSF is forcing researchers
in basic sciences to develop applications(cf: Alfred Aho report to
NSF on funding to theoritical CS), rather than focussing on
fundamental problems. Secular Univ-s are more intersted in fundings
(Wanna Ph.D in elite Univs?- Donate $5M, tenure track position- How
much money you got for me, Dean-Fund Raiser in Dept.) Apart from
this, experiments are becoming damn expensive, for example, Gravity
Probe-B budget is crossing $500M. There is no inexpensive remedy, as
this curve itself is self-correcting(analogous to observational data
fitting to planets' ephemerides.) Without experimental validity,
Basic sciences wont advance, and wastes intellectual labor of
theorists.

==================================;;l;l===

Fwd: [avcollegemba] Fwd: FW: Stranger than fiction- the nehru dynas Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2690 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re:Stranger than fiction- the nehru dynasty by K N Rao

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Sudheer Reddy Cherukupally wrote:

Well, I appreciate K. N. Rao work in this regard. You can have this
book for $6 in US of A.

====llllll===

Is Congress Party truely secular ???? Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2634 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: Is Congress Party truely secular ????

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, shilpi reddy wrote:
> if you know any details of the incidents of kunti malla reddy's
>dynasty, please post them. it would be beneficial to all of us. yes,
>we could not write history as we were losers but we can try- why not
>try including that topic in some academic books- i know this is a far
>fethed idea but may be we can-

I apologize for not replying promptly. Actually this historical story
with exaggerations, interpolations is really deal with the internal
classifications of reddys, viz various reddy sects(velanadu,
pokanadu, pedakanti et al) shaaka, gothra(for example, my ancestors
belongs to kr`stipaadu shaaka/gumpu). I can recall this story vaguely.
Thus, I am not able to post consistent story. Probably, I will do
this only when I meet these reddy sects, who deal with historical
stories(for example, there are few familes in Mydukur, Proddatur areas
in Cuddapah dist).

Lastly, but not least, one has to de-mythologize the indian
history(puraana-itihaasa-s) to decipher the chronology of kings in
bharata varSa till muslim invasion. We can then link the chronology of
pre-muslim kings upto Mahabhaarata war. In this regard, Prof. BN
Achar, Prof of Physics, U of Memhis, TN proved that Mahahaarata war
took place ca. 3067 BC via planetarium, sky map software. For more
info, ref:
http://www.hindunet.org/saraswati/colloquium/mahabharata01.htm

How about Shri Rama, ikshvaku, and past manvantara-s.

I along with a friend, addressed this issue via Physics, Astronomy,
esp General relativity, Unified Field theory and its connection to
Kalpa, Manvantara-s.

For more,

"Here is the link to the paper:

Natural Cycles in the Solar System and the Chaturyuga Cycles: Dr.
Shamble Shastry, Franklin, MA and Venkateswara Reddy, Menlo Park, CA.

http://www.hindunet.org/saraswati/colloquium/yuga01.doc

The yuga and maha_yuga is a tough problem in Hindu astronomical
thought and in the context of the Maha_bha_rata. In my view, this
paper breaks new ground which may provide a basis for unravelling
the astronomical references in Ra_ma_yan.a, the Bra_hman.as and
Pura_n.a-s."

Best,
VR

====================kkllklkl====

Martyrs from Reddy Community Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2631 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: Martyrs from Reddy Community

Tarimela Nagi Reddy is better than present crop of Reddy(irrespective
of their affliation to their party) politicians.

BTW, Sometimes, I use my personal id, venkateshwara_reddy for web
forums.

Regards,
Venkateswara Reddy

====================klklklkljkljl=============================

Fwd:Of Internet Hindu haters: The Groan of RISA - IV Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2633 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
RISA = Religions in South ASIA. This acronym usually refer to various
humanities scholars in US Universities. This group filled up with
bigots, missionaries as hindus, hindu haters

Rgds,
Venkateswara Reddy.



--- "vishalsagarwal" wrote:

Part IV of the series of articles by Yvette Rosser, showing how
many 'scholars' of RISA, hate Hindus and indulged in unbridled show
of their prejudices against Hindus in particular, and Indian in
general, has appeared at the URL

http://www.sulekha.com/articledesc.asp?cid=285289

Parts I-III can also be read at Sulekha.com

Sincerely,

Vishal Agarwal
--- End forwarded message ---

=========kljlk=============

Is Congress Party truely secular ???? Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2599 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: Is Congress Party truely secular ????


For example, our christian missionary brother wrote the following in
the guise of historian. All psecs, venerable Harvard Indologists to
Historians inherited this:

[Start]
The pagan gentlemen and merchants have this custom amongst them.
There will sometimes be two merchants who will be great friends, and
each will have a wife; and one merchant will say to the other in this
wise: "Langal perganal montan onde?" that is, "So-and-so, have we
been a long time friends?" The other will answer: "Hognam perga
manaton ondo;" that is, "Yes, I have for a long time been your
friend." The other says: "Nipatanga ciolli?" that is, "Do you speak
the truth that you are my friend?" The other will answer, and
say "Ho;" that is, "Yes." Says the other one: "Tamarani?" that
is, "By God!" One says: In penna tonda gnan penna cortu;" that
is, "Let us exchange wives, give me your wife and I will give you
mine." The other answers: "Ni pantagocciolli?" that is, "Do you speak
from your heart?" The other says: "Tamarani!" that is, "Yes, By God!"
His companion answers, and says: "Biti Banno;" that is "Come to my
house." And when he has arrived at his house he calls his wife and
says to her: "Penna, ingaba idocon dopoi;" that is "Wife, come here,
go with this man, for he is your husband." The wife answers: "Eindi?"
that is, "Wherefore? Dost thou speak the truth, by god tamarani" The
husband replies: "Ho gran patangociolli;" that is, "I Speak the
truth." Says the wife: "perga manno;" that is, "It pleases
me." "Gnan poi;" that is "I go." And so she goes away with his
companion to his house. The friend then tells his wife to go with the
other, and this manner they exchange their wives..

Borrowed from: Badgar, George Percy (Ed.)

The travels of Ludovico vi Varthema in Egypt, Syria, Arabia Deserta
and Arabia Felix, in Persia, India, and Ethiopia, A.D 1503 to 1508.
Translated into English in 1863 by J.WINTER JONES. The Hakluyt
Society, Series II, Vol XXXII. Reprinted: New York: Burt Franklin,
Publisher

[END]




--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "reddy_sas2000
" wrote:
> Hi vnr1995,
>
> I too can write un-healthy .
>
> The people with humaniatrian instinct will never ever associate
> with people with brutal, barbaric, inhuman, eccentric, geek,
flaky,
> depraved, perverted, unkind, inconsiderate, communal, fundamental,
> imperial, bizarre, outlandish, unsympathetic,foolish , stupid,
> fascist, irrational qualities and belivers of Manu Dharma.
>
>
> V V Reddy
>
>
>
> --- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "vnr1995 "
> wrote:
> > --- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "reddy_sas2000
> > " wrote:
> > > Hi vnr1995,
> > >
> > > With the help of people ("activists" ?) like you I will "start
> the
> > > project/s" .
> >
> >
> > How do you you think that I would join with pseudo

==================kllkklklll;’’//=============

Is Congress Party truely secular ???? Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2596 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: Is Congress Party truely secular ????

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "reddy_sas2000
" wrote:

> I personally encourage you to develop rational thinking towards the
>Indian polity .........


Haha, First one has to know the antiquity of so-called pseudo
secularism. And how it is formulated by European primitives(colonial
writers, Christologists etc).


It is sad to note that the present crop of the psecs are colonized
(denying own experience) and map liberelism, secularism, pluralism
onto their own, without knowing what they are, how they derived.

I will post few messages in future on "Secularism or de-christianized
Christology" and "Nehru-Marxist chauvanism in India and their slavery
to abrahamic thought process"

Regards,
VNR

===============;k;lk;l;l;;===

Fwd: Remembering the Tibetans Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2563 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
This is a reminder from Claude Arpi that in our politics of minority
appeasement, we have not even recognized the true friends of India.

"Do many in India know that not only did Tibetans participate in the
liberation of Bangladesh in 1971, they were instrumental in the fall
of Chittagong? "

"When the Indian public gets to know these genuine facts, people are
always deeply touched. I witnessed this recently when some young
Tibetan students from Chennai gave a public performance. At the end
they sang a poem written in Hindi by a Tibetan SFF jawan who had
participated in the Kargil operations. The poet-jawan had written
this song of joy, sorrow and emotion to express his gratitude to his
second motherland and to the people of India who had given refuge,
protection and education to his countrymen. Though Hindi is not the
forte of the people of the South, when the students finished singing
many in the audience were crying."

http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/jan/08spec.htm

=================;k;k;===

Is Congress Party truely secular ???? Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2561 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: Is Congress Party truely secular ????

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "reddy_sas2000
" wrote:
> Hi vnr1995,
>
> With the help of people ("activists" ?) like you I will "start the
> project/s" .


How do you you think that I would join with pseudo junkies/fringe of
Marxist-Mullah-Missionary lunatics?

================l;k;l;=============

For all Company's Written test's click on below link : Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2541 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Social Group/Math Group? (was Re: Grace garu ..manadi ye district)

I am appending an intersting post related to this caste-social group,
from Bhadriah:-

"Not only casteism but many other evils are plaguing the hearts of
Indian society. I worked in a public sector company for 8 years where
all kinds of discrimination were rampant. People grouped themselves
together as punjabis, andhras, bengalis etc. Each group dominated one
department such as HR, accounts, chemistry, physics etc. Gangs of
people graduating from one university used to favor their own
juniors. There was an M.Sc vs B.Tech politics in all appointment and
promotions. Geophysicsts were divided into those two groups: who
studied real geophysics and those studied physics. All this politics
was affecting performance and involves misallocation or loss of huge
sums of money. There was also university politics by people from
XLRI, JNU, Aligarh, IIM, what not.

Even in US we have Russian, Philippino, Irish, Indian mafias where
you can get a job only if you fall into these categories. It is all
very subtle, nothing outspoken. Foreign companies only keep people of
their country if there is a crunch.

Bhadraiah"






--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Swetha Reddy
wrote:
>

==========================;;l;l;==

Is Congress Party truely secular ???? Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2539 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: Is Congress Party truely secular ????

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "Bontha, Narasimhareddy"
wrote:
> Kill those people whoever is refused to sing national Anthem in
>India... (except foreigners). I was not aware of this. Which school
>is it? Please let me know. Should kick them out of India. If you
>don't sing national anthem, you are not required in India. Get out
>of my country... otherwise I (we)
> should kick them out. "Jo Tirang Ka Avahelan Karega O Marega..."


It is OK to wipe out hindus from North Eastern Frontier by Christian
Militants and from J & K by Islamics.

And our beloved Congress chief Sonia supports the action by these
Xian terrorists in Manipur and other NE states.




>
> Lal Salam
> Narasimha Reddy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Reddy, Krishna [mailto:krishna.reddy@b...]
> Sent: Monday, January 06, 2003 10:12 PM
> To: 'ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com'
> Subject: RE: [ReddyOnline] Re: Is Congress Party truely secular ????
>
>
> I totally agree with Shilpika. I think sas reddy lost the touch
with
> history. For generations together we were living with the secular
idealogy
> which led us to nowhere but humiliation and insecurity. Why can't
> secularists answer when ever there are questions like " what about
our
> temples being destroyed in Kashmir?". Why can't they raise their
voice when
> incidents like Godhra happens? Why can't they raise their voice and
> preachings when Hindu families were massacred in Kashmir. Why don't
these
> secularists question the nationality of Kerala christian schools
who refused
> to sing national Anthem? What about our secular MPs(MIM, CPI and
CPM etc..)
> who opposed to sing Vandemataram in Loksabha. Do these secularists
have
> tunneled vision? or no vision at all.
>
> Thanks
> Krishna Mohan Reddy
> 952-995-5178 (Work)
> 952-457-2428 (Cell)
>
> krishna.reddy@b... mailto:krishna.reddy@b...

==============l;kl;k;l’’//===============

Is Congress Party truely secular ???? Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2538 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: Is Congress Party truely secular ????

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "Reddy, Krishna"
wrote:

I appreciate Kris.na Reddy's pointer to Unnamaata, edi charitra by
Andhrabhoomi editor.

Let me made a couple of points:

1. Andhra Bhoomi is Pro-Congress(? = T. S. Rami Reddy). This note is
to a buncha psecs in this egroup

2. Now this psec may condemns MVR Shastri for exposing truth in this
egroup by "Brahmanical forces are overtaking these newspapers".




> praising them. We should have courage to accept the facts. For more
> information on our true history, please go through the series "Edi
> Charitra". presented by Andhrabhoomi editor-in-chief MVR Sastri in
> www.andhrabhoomionline.com. We all know that over generations, we

===============llkjljl====

Fwd: ABC of psuedo-secularism Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2508 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
--- In historianontrial@yahoogroups.com,


ABC of pseudo-secularism

A tribe of pseudo-secularists in India have arrogated to themselves
the right of expressing their views even in the textbooks for
children.

It does not bother their conscience if the subject of their writings
is history relating to events of national importance. They float on
intellectual pride on an assumed self-righteousness. They smugly
close their eyes on the monstrous lies perpetrated by sadist
elements among our erstwhile imperial rulers or the prejudiced
communal minds of past historians, whose overpowering desire was to
distort our legacy, denigrate our social norms and destroy our
national pride.

As part of the same tradition, some of our recent so-called
historians and over-rated intellectuals tried to repeat the myths in
our textbooks, which had the potential of poisoning the young minds
with wrong assertions and blurred interpretations of the otherwise
poignant episodes in our chequered history. The Romila Thapars,
Satish Chandras and their clan, refused to budge from their arrogant
versions and insisted on the correctness of their prescriptions as
an inscription on the wall. On wider inquiry and deeper scrutiny, it
could be found that they were misguided by superficial sources and
did not have any unimpeachable historical authority to rely upon.

Perhaps, they were too keen to appear liberal among the present
generation of Indians to ingratiate themselves to a class of people
inside and outside the country so inimical to us. It did not matter
to them that as `historians' it was their duty to correct the past
mistakes and to put things in the correct perspective. Their social
conceit stood in the way of taking remedial action which could have
easily been done without raising so much dust of controversy.

It is in this context that the NCERT had to remove certain portions
from the textbooks to clear the cobwebs of prejudice and ignorance.
One of the gems of Satish Chandra related to the martyrdom of Guru
Tegh Bahadur, the ninth guru of the Sikhs, in 1675. He is a saintly
figure in the Sikh faith, who made the supreme sacrifice to save the
much-oppressed Hindu community from the bigotry of Aurangzeb. Many a
chronicle has been written about the inextinguishable thirst of the
Mughal ruler to forcibly convert Hindu droves. Even the tenth guru,
Guru Govind Singh, in his autobiography, Bachittar Natak, has
ascribed the execution of his holy father in Delhi's Chandni Chowk
to his noble effort to protect the frontal mark (tilak) and the
sacred thread (janeyu) of the Hindus.

And look at Satish Chandra's version in his history book on medieval
India for Class XI. According to him, after the return of the guru
from Assam, in association with one Hafiz Khan, he resorted to
plundering and raping, laying waste the whole province of Punjab.
And he attributes this to some unspecified Persian source. He adds
that according to Sikh tradition, the guru's execution was due to
intrigues of some members of his family.

Chandra mentions the cause of Aurangzeb's annoyance with the guru to
his act of converting a few Muslims to Sikhism! He does not say a
word about the countless conversions carried out by the fanatic
ruler. It is for the people of India to assess such historians, who
unwittingly or deliberately, impose their interpretations on the
masses.

According to Romila Thapar in her book (Class VI), for special
guests, beef was served as a mark of honour. According to Arjun Dev
and Indira Arjun Dev (Modern India, Class VIII), Jats founded their
state at Bharatpur from where they conducted plundering raids in the
regions around and participated in court intrigues in Delhi. Some
other diseased minds of the so-called historians have denied the
existence of Lord Rama at Ayodhya and Lord Krishna in Mathura around
2000 BC and 200 BC-300 AD respectively. These are not only attempts
to create confusion, but to strike at the roots of the Hindu
heritage.

Who are the protagonists of such theories to demolish the faith in
Hinduism? The communists — whose atheism takes them to the portals
of hatred for the Hindu way of life. They were against the freedom
of India from foreign rule. And when freedom came, the Communist
Party of India sent a delegation to Stalin of the Soviet Union to
help them in a coup against the government of India, as they
perceived the Hindu ethos as the single biggest bulwark against
communism in this country.

Everything that the NDA government does for the nation is dubbed as
an effort at `saffronisation'. And this effort may be aimed at only
removing the vestiges of falsehood in the history books for our
children.

It is paradoxical that even after the Supreme Court has dismissed a
petition filed by some misguided persons, the latter have dug their
heals in refusing to accept the verdict. Sonia Gandhi has gone on
record saying that her party would not accept the curriculum
developed by NCERT and the schools in states ruled by the Congress
would continue with the old curricula. That hits the nail on the
head of a party which has been claiming to be the conscience-keeper
of the nation and a tool for progressive change.

It was nothing short of blasphemy on the part of another Congress
boss, Salman Khurshid, who said on TV that Sita was not from India.
One wonders if there is a coordinated plan among the Congress
bigwigs to distort Hindu mythology and history. They seem to be
taking their `secularism' a bit too far, as they are trying to
trample over the Hindu tradition.

It would be best to let the Congress and their cohorts stew in their
own juice. With the verdict of the apex court, the ghost of
saffronisation has been laid to rest. A new dawn is beginning in the
horizon of school education. It would now be possible to give the
students an insight into multiculturism, social rights and human
values. A new initiative is in the offing to build scientific temper
among children. The anchor of education would be the philosophy of
Mahatma Gandhi and the thought of our national leaders.

One can only hope that the present Congress president would not
claim exclusive rights to the philosophy of the Mahatma. Her party
has done enough to denigrate what Hinduism stands for.

Recounting the Supreme Court verdict, `value education', based on
the good points of all religions, will contribute to the building of
a secular ethos. But the Congress thinks otherwise. They are calling
the verdict just a legal victory and not a real one. Their
convoluted minds view every good thing done by the NDA government as
furthering the `Hindutva' agenda, as if it were a hoodoo.

The coming elections are not going to take place on the Hindutva
plank. What the BJP believes in is to strengthen the nation's unity
on the basis of undivided loyalty to the nation, adherence to its
territorial integrity and the agreed economic reforms. But the
pseudo-secularists try to exploit even a tragic event to reap a
short-term advantage.

It would be pertinent to ask the Leftists to set their own house in
West Bengal in order, where the education policy is highly backward.
Let them rewrite their books full of jaundiced information on
India's past. Let them rectify their own blunders before upbraiding
the NDA government's efforts to rationalise education.
If the Congress and the Communists have the good of the nation at
heart, let them remove their blinkers and see the direction in which
the country wants to go. Let them eschew obscurantism and
megalomania and be humble to strengthen the nation's unity and well-
being.

--- End forwarded message ---

=====================fgdfg=====================

Is Congress Party truely secular ???? Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2509 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: Is Congress Party truely secular ????

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Rakesh wrote:
> Ram, You are mistaken. Discussion is on this topic is
> very interested and yourself and Shilpika are giving
> very good points. Reddy community in AP closely
> associates itself with Congress and viceversa. At the
> same time, we would like this society to be peaceful.

This does not mean "Congress is meant for Reddy(s) salvation".

It is high time for us(esp. neo-colonised people and psecs) to learn
logic, rather than being proud of computer logic.

Appended is an example by Prof. SN Balagangadhara:-

/START

(A) Consider the following sequence of sentences:

1. All Indians are perfectly and fully moral.
2. All westerners are perfectly fully moral.
3. All Indians are immoral.
4. All westerners are immoral.

For sentences (1) and (2), all it takes is one instance of immorality
to be proven wrong. Our proverbial municipal clerk would be immoral,
and it would disprove the sentence (1). The same example could also
confirm sentence (3); an instance of a moral act would also be a
counter-example.

Now, when the municipal clerk is brought out as an instance, what
exactly is its status? Is it intended as an example of (3) or as a
counter example to (1)? Probably neither, because no one on this
board believes either (1) or (3). Consequently, it can illustrate
another claim:

5. Some Indians are immoral.

This is undisputed; and we all take (5) to be true. In fact, we all
believe

6. Some westerners are immoral.

Or, more generically,

7. There are immoral people in both the west and India.

So, the municipal clerk (and something analogous in the west) would
be seen as a confirmation of the sentence (7). Since nobody is
disputing this, and yet there is a dispute about the municipal clerk,
the sentence (7) is not at issue either.

(B) Let us see whether the issue is about corruption. To begin with,
let us simply say that "immorality=corruption". But this time, let us
begin with the following sentence:

8. Some Indians are corrupt.

No argument from any one. (To me, this is true as much as the claim:
some westerners are corrupt, some Africans are corrupt, some Asians
are corrupt and some American-Indians are corrupt.) The dispute about
the municipal clerk cannot be with respect to the above either. How
about

9. All Indians are corrupt.

Most of us disagree with this; most of us do not believe it to be
true either. In any case, those with whom I am arguing (Kannan, Arun,
Arjun, Tapori, Cynical, to name just a few) do not definitely
subscribe to this. Therefore, the municipal clerk example is not seen
by any of us as an example of sentence (9).

So, if the example of the municipal clerk, or the building
contractor, is not an example of either (8) or (9), what else is it
an example of or counter example to? Logically, there is only one
option left:

10. No Indian is corrupt.

But every one of us, including me, believe sentence (8) to be true.
From this it follows that (10) is false. To make it clear, I do not
subscribe to sentence (10) at all.

So, we are left with a problem. If there is consensus among us about
which of the above sentences are true, and which are false, why are
we still disputing? Why do people feel obliged to come with instances
like the municipal clerk or the building contractor? *What is it an
example of, what is it a counter-example to*? What precisely are we
disputing?

(C) There is also another common agreement because of the
definitional equivalence. All acts of corruption and ethics are
*individual* acts, i.e., individuals are either corrupt (immoral) or
not corrupt (moral). So, we cannot be disagreeing about this either.
So, why do people feel the urge to come with some or another
instance, some argument or the other, and have a dispute with me?
Where do we disagree?

(D) The next step is to break the definitional equivalence. Two of
the issues about which there could be a dispute (of the possible
four):

11. Some corrupt acts are moral.
12. Some non-corrupt acts are not immoral.

There has been some discussion about the sentence (11), but at a very
late stage in the argument. (Especially in my post to Arun, where I
invite him to think of scenario's where 11 could be true, using the
Indian psychology). But whatever it may be, the clerk and the
building contractor could not be about this: I kept insisting that
one is *not* defending that corruption is either morally good or bad,
and that one needed to understand what it was before making a moral
judgement either way.

So, what have we been discussing all along, and where is the dispute
to be located?

(E) Here is my hypothesis. The discussion has been about the
sentence "corruption is a social phenomenon" and what we understand
this sentence means. We are at loggerheads about the scope of this
sentence. I believe you do not quite appreciate the consequences of
your interpretation. Let me approach my hypothesis by steps as well.
(F) Consider the following sentences:

13 There are more corrupt Indians than there are corrupt westerners.
14 There are more corrupt persons in India than elsewhere.
15 In terms of the percentage of corrupt to non-corrupt people, India
ranks 73rd in the list of nations.

These are some possible ways of interpreting the claim that "India is
a corrupt nation". None of these are acceptable because no research
has been done by anyone, anywhere in the world, at anytime that can
provide us with any semblance of evidence that can justify such a
statement.

Quite obviously, that claim that India is a corrupt nation (or that
corruption is rampant in India) cannot refer to statements like
above. Let us bring in the organisation to which the municipal clerk
belongs, in order to see whether it makes sense.

16 The Indian bureaucracy is corrupt.
17 In 72 other nations, bureaucracy is less corrupt.
18 The bureaucracy in some countries is more corrupt than bureaucracy
elsewhere.
19 The manner in which the bureaucracy, the police, the justice
system is corrupt in India is different from the way similar
organisations are corrupt in the USA.

The sentence is (16) is true, but no implications follow from this.
May be, that is because all bureaucracies are corrupt: because of
Nehruvian Socialism in India, Fascism in Germany, Democracy in the
US, etc. etc. In other words, the claim could be about the
organisation that the bureaucracy is. But, of course, it is not: no
one means that only `the Indian bureaucracy is corrupt', when they
say that India is corrupt. Besides, no one has done a comparative
research. So, we have no clue about what 17 through 19 say or do not
say. Our dispute on this board, consequently, cannot be about any of
the above sentences.

Suppose we add government to this list. Consider the following:

20 The Indian bureaucracy and the Indian government are corrupt.
21 The existence of corrupt organisations makes a culture or a nation
corrupt.
22 If the society feeds corruption, such a society is corrupt.

Now, I have a feeling we are getting somewhere in the process of
making sense of the statement that India is a corrupt country. But,
let us take small steps here. Regarding (21) and (22) the following
could be said: the existence of organised crime in all societies
would make all societies corrupt. But no one says that America is a
corrupt nation because the organised crime exists and grows in
America. So, let us leave aside these two sentences for the time
being and focus on (20).

23 The present incumbents in bureaucracy and government are corrupt.

This is not what is meant when one says that India is a corrupt
country or that corruption is eating into the innards of the country.
What one means is something stronger, more like,

24 The Indian *regime* is corrupt: not merely the present incumbents
but the Indian *system* of bureaucracy and politics.

But (24) does not imply that the rule of law and democracy are
corrupt. These institutions are not corrupt.

25 The *way* the Indians *use* these modern institutions is corrupt.
Or, The Indian way is corrupt.

What is this Indian way? Some kinds of examples.

26 Such is the nature of corruption in India that anyone who has to
do business in India is forced to play the same game.
27 One cannot do business in India without paying bribes.

In other words, such is the *Indian way* that even those who want to
play fair and square are *forced* into playing the game of
corruption. These business people themselves get corrupted because,
much like the building contractor, they are forced to pay bribes in
order to stay alive.

28 This means, that such is the pattern of interactions within the
Indian society that anyone who wants to interact with them is forced
to become corrupt himself. Or, pithily formulated,
29 One is taught to relate in a corrupt way to other people.

Both (29) and (30) imply the following:

30 One is not only corrupt; one corrupts the other as well. That
is, `their' (i.e. the Indian) way of interacting breeds corruption.

From this, it is a child's play (almost) to go to the following
conclusions:

31 Corruption continues to grow in India because more and more people
are taught to become corrupt.
32 That is, more of more aspects of cultural life come under the
scope of corruption.
33 The process of learning to be corrupt is part of the Indian
culture and society.
34 A society or a culture teaches its members some ways of
interacting with each other. If these ways are themselves corrupt,
the society or nation is corrupt.

In other words, the *commonsense* claims (and the scholarly
treatises) about `corruption in India' involve the above statements.
This is what I think most of you are defending *without* knowing it
(or even explicitly rejecting it). Why do I say so?
(G) Because, now the examples of the clerk and the contractor begin
to make sense. They are examples of the fact that India is corrupt.
It does not mean the sentence (8) [i.e., some Indians are corrupt]
but sentences 30 through 35. You feel that I am saying something
else, something different from the commonsense claims you are putting
forward. Therefore, you keep coming with examples and arguments that
make no sense, have no point or purpose, *at first sight*. But they
do make sense. If you realise that a `simple' statement like that of
the Transparency International has its own logic and takes you
irresistibly towards one goal, you will also realise that your
examples and arguments have but one purpose: to `show' that India is
corrupt in the sense we have just seen.

(H) When immorality increases in the West, people do not say
the `west is an immoral culture' because it *encourages* immorality.
They bemoan this fact and say that the `fundamental' western values
(or Christian values) need to be revived. When immorality (say
corruption) increases in India, people do not say the same and call
for a revival of Indian values. No, they say that the Indian culture
and society are corrupt. Why? Because the values that the Indian
society embody are not considered moral.

(I) In other words, the discussions on this board illustrate the
colonial consciousness I refer to in the article. Even when we *want
to*, it is not that simple to break out of this consciousness. Even
when we talk about our own experiences in India, we remain within the
ambit of colonised consciousness. Because, "Colonialism", as I have
repeated a number of times already, "is about denying the colonised
peoples and cultures their own experiences; of making them aliens to
themselves; of actively preventing any description of their own
experiences except in terms defined by the colonisers."

(J) I am, of course, aware that I have sketched out but a path in the
above paragraphs. This is not the only path, but one I found to be
the simplest to show the logic involved in the statement that `India
is corrupt'. I say your discussions suggest that you are merely
following the logic of this statement. By saying this, I might
alienate some of you. If that comes to pass, so be it. As I have said
in another post, I can only help you think, I cannot convert you. You
need to put in the effort and all I can provide are some tips.


Friendly greetings

Balu
/END

==================eger===

Is Congress Party truely secular ???? Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2499 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: Is Congress Party truely secular ????

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, Ram
wrote:
>
> Shilpika, it seems nobody is interested in our discussion and we are
>the only two breaking heads. So, better not to get into past and
>concentrate ourselves in getting our community and people better
>opportunities. Thatz about it.

I concur with your opinions. Besides that, it is time to search for
historical roots of Reddy(s), and their migration to andhra due to Islamic
terrorists(barbarism) in the past. Puranams are not myths. And the
stories told by Bikshakonti reddies are not myths either. They are
historical facts with exaggerations.





> shilpi reddy wrote:


====================dasdasda=sdasdasd===================

Is Congress Party truely secular ???? Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2498 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: Is Congress Party truely secular ????

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "reddy_sas2000
" wrote:

>
> If "REDDY" community wanted to extend the reservations to the poor
> people in the "REDDY" community , "REDDY" community along with
other
> OC's come forward and mobalise the public openion for an overall
> change in the applying the political, educational and employement
> reservations to a person of India.

Why dont YOU start this project, rather than flooding with opinions in
these forums.

===============ewewe===========

Is Congress Party truely secular ???? Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2497 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: Is Congress Party truely secular ????

--- In ReddyOnline@yahoogroups.com, "reddy_sas2000
" wrote:
>
> What you will name for the demolishion of Babri Masjid in 1992 ???
> Fanatism, Fascism, Barbarism ....
>
> Since V P Singh announced implementation of Mandal Commission
> recomendations in 1989, since then the brahminical forces put forth

Count the brahmins in your neighborhood and your village.
Why this forum is filled up with pseudo secularists.

=============sfsdf===

We need to Import the Unique Primaries culture from American Democr Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2255 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: We need to Import the Unique Primaries culture from American Democracy


A note on subject: Yes, yes we need to import from American
democracy. Any alien wont become US citizen without passing American
History test. Let us adapt it and apply the same to present Congress
chief.




--- In ReddyOnline@y..., "geetopadesham" wrote:
> Who do you think should fund this additional election cost?
>
> some times enlightened needs to be enlightened as well!
> straight from the Lord, Krishna.
>
> --- In ReddyOnline@y..., "reddy_sas2000" wrote:
> > We need to Import the Unique Primaries culture from American
> Democracy
> >
> >
> >

==werwerwer====

Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2213 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: Stop Hatred & www.stopfundinghate.org

--- In ReddyOnline@y..., "vnr1995" wrote:
>
> The aforementioned URL stopfundinghate.org cites
> http://www.sabrang.com report.
>
> Check the truth at
>
> http://www.sabrang.com/aman/aman.GIF
>

The above mentioned picture(aman.gif = India minus J &K State) was
taken away from the site by this fringe of anti-india MCC supporters.

That is the truth behind this stopfundHate.org

===erwe===

Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2195 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: Stop Hatred & www.stopfundinghate.org


The aforementioned URL stopfundinghate.org cites
http://www.sabrang.com report.

Check the truth at

http://www.sabrang.com/aman/aman.GIF


VNR


--- In ReddyOnline@y..., "reddy_sas2000" wrote:
> Dear Members and Venkateswara Reddy,
>
> If the organisers of INDIA DEVELOPMENT AND RELIEF FUND (IDRF) can
> change their organization/forum name to HINDUISM DEVELOPMENT AND
> RELIEF FUND (IDRF) and caryy out their activities nobody will have
> any objection .
>
> Under te name of INDIA DEVELOPMENT AND RELIEF FUND (IDRF) carrying
> propagation of "HINDUISM" is very very bad. Every body know the
> organisers affiliation to RSS and VHP.
>
> So US Corporations should stop funding to IDRF.
>
> V V Reddy
>
>
>
> --- In ReddyOnline@y..., Venkateswara Reddy wrote:
> > Dear members,
> > Pls. check the appended email to check the hate
> > compaign against a non-profit org IDRF, by so called
> > p-secs in India, and their association with 9-11
> > lunatics.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > VR
> >
> > Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 19:06:55 -0500
> > From: ank@r...
> > To: ank@r...
> > Subject: Stop Hatred & Let India Develop Petition
> >
> > Dear friend:
> >
> > You may be aware that a virulent hate campaign has
> > been launched by lunatic fringe of Marxists based in
> > USA. It is in the form of a campaign called "The
> > Campaign to Stop Funding Hate" and is aimed at a
> > volunteer-based charity India Development & Relief
> > Fund (IDRF). This campaign seeks to mislead, deceive,
> > and/or intimidate the well-meaning Indians, inspired
> > by Swami Vivekananda and Mahatma Gandhi, who want to
> > serve the poor and underprivileged of India. The
> > campaign aims to stop fundraising of IDRF in USA and
> > the biggest casualty of this senseless campaign would
> > be those who need our support the most - the poorest
> > of the poor downtrodden of India.
> >
> > We would like you to visit the petition's website at
> >
> > http://www.letindiadevelop.org
> >
> > and sign the petition. Let your voice be heard. If we
> > fail to act at this critical juncture, the people who
> > repeatedly invoke Mahatma Gandhi's name to perpetuate
> > their hatred for anything Indian, will succeed in
> > their sinister plans.
> >
> > We urge you to act proactively and support the
> > petition.
> >
> > Jai Bharat & Jai USA!
> >
> > PS: My investigations point to a handful of
> > Paki/Muslim shenanigans who are active supporters of
> > 9/11 type Osama terrorists + the asuri Taliban as
> > being the incubators of this and similar "Hate India"
> > campaigns in USA. One of them circulated the below
> > email that throws light on their "Hate India" campaign
> > in the guise of secularism. You may kindly read it
> > too, and use your own common sense to figure out the
> > real nature of this "Hate India" and "damn India"
> > terrorist club. Almost all of Islamic charities in USA
> > funnelled funds to Osama's terror networks, and hence
> > have been shut down by US Government. The war of this
> > pro-Taliban club against IDRF is thus understandable.
> >
> > Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2002 23:10:43 -0500
> > To: secular-publicity@M...
> > From: "A. Sur"
> > Subject: campaign to stop funding hate
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > This is a call for help.
> >
> > As you might already know, some of us have been
> > working on launching the "Campaign to Stop Funding
> > Hate" in order to staunch the flow of NRI money to the
> > Sangh Parivar. A report detailing the links between
> > IDRF (an organization that collects money here
> > ostensibly for relief and charity) and the Sangh
> > Parivar was released to the press today both here and
> > in India. The text of the report is available at
> > http://www.mnet.fr/aiindex/2002/FEH (Harsh Kapoor's
> > site), http://www.sabrang.com/hnfund/sacw/index.html
> > (the Communalism Combat site),
> > http://www.outlookindia.com and on the webpage of the
> > campaign itself: http://www.stopfundinghate.org
> >
> > The response from the press has been great so far.
> > Many Indian papers and magazines have already carried
> > the story and our own Biju Mathew was on Star News TV
> > debating VHP President Vishnu Hari Dalmiya (and
> > according to early reports "made mincemeat out of
> > him").
> >
> > But this is only the beginning. We could use a LOT of
> > help. At this time, what we need you to do is to visit
> > the campaign's web-site and sign the petition that you
> > will find there. We are hoping to generate at least
> > 1,000 signatures by the end of the week. Please
> > (please, please) add your signature and forward this
> > call to as many as possible.
> >
> > Visit the campaign website
> > http://www.stopfundinghate.org or go directly to the
> > petition at
> > http://www.stopfundinghate.org/cgi-bin/WhyStopIt.pl as
> > soon as you get a chance and help us out. Many thanks.
> >
> > We will be calling on you for more as the campaign
> > progresses.
> >
> > In solidarity and struggle,
> > Ali
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
> > http://mailplus.yahoo.com

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Fwd: Two new important Sulekha essays: by Balagangadhara and Alan Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2194 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Forwarded:

I recommend the following new essays, each from an important
international
scholar.

1) Balagangadhara: "On Colonial Experience and the Indian Renaissance"
posted at: http://www.sulekha.com/column.asp?cid=271421

(His earlier essay on Sulekha, a response to Jeffrey Kripal, is a
must-read
for those who have not read it already.)


2) Alan Roland: "The Uses (and Misuses) Of Psychoanalysis in South
Asian
Studies" posted at:
http://www.sulekha.com/column.asp?cid=270005

(Roland is a well-known psychoanalyst in the US, who has severely
criticized
the Eurocentric use of profiling Indians by using Freudian methods.)
--- End forwarded message ---

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Re: Heloooooooooooooo Message List
Reply | Forward Message #2011 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: Heloooooooooooooo


I can surmise the purpose of thise egroup from a brief look at the
archive.

* Courting females.


Do anybody knew in this egroup about "Reddy-s in geological times".
Nobody bothers about it. Just reading some screwed up indian history
in so called secular schools in India induced by Eurocentric
lunatics, such as Indologists, Xian missionaries, mulla-s, marxists.


Regards,
Nag


> Its shame that some of our Group behave cheaply.
> Dont repeat this again.
>
>
> > Well folks calm down !!!!!
> >

====dasd===

Ref:respond immidiately Message List
Reply | Forward Message #1948 of 36657 < Prev | Next >
Re: Ref:respond immidiately

--- In ReddyOnline@y..., Madhu Vajrala wrote:
> Thanks for wishing us , but why the heck you want
> another group and SPLIT the big group like this .
>
> Whats not here and whats in there ??

Unity in Diversity, eh:-)

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